.454 300gr

I'm looking to start a new hand load and I am wanting to get some opinions. I'm using a SRH 7.5" .454 and I'm going to use Speer Deep Curl 300gr bullets. I looked up some Hodgdon load data using Lil' Gun powder and they recommend a starting load of 29gr and a max load of 31gr with a 300gr FA JFP, which I would imagine would be comparable to the Speer. If anyone has any experience with this bullet and powder combination, or has other recommendations I would love to hear from you.

Thanks.

I love this bullet for hunting, I have taken deer the past two seasons with it. My current load is 29gr of IMR4227 for about 1400fps, once I've used these up I plan to use H110 at 30gr for 1550fps. These bullets don't like to go below 1300fps with a max of 1630fps according to Speer.

There is a PDF data sheet from Speer with reloading data and information on it about the bullet if you do a little digging online.

Hi, Bladesmith!

I found this, I guess it's what you're talking about.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/pdf/ReloadingSupplementalDATA/454C_300.pdf

The velocity figures are much slower than what I was looking at from Hodgdon and Lil'Gun isn't listed. Supposedly, the max charge of 31gr of Lil'Gun will move a 300gr to 1746 FPS with 45,000 CUP of pressure out of a 9.375" barrel. If I can get to around 1700 FPS out of my 7.5" then I'll be happy as long as it is accurate and extraction is good. My goal is to improve upon and exceed the factory Hornady 300gr load listed at 1650 FPS.

31.5 gr. WW296 has been my .454 load with 300 gr. XTPs and 300 gr. Speer PSPs for many years. Has worked great on groundhogs and deer from 5" RB, 7 1/2" Ruger SRH, and 7 1/5" FA.

Thanks, WV Hitman!

Unlike most everyone else on the planet I've never had great success with W296 or H110. Not in 44mag and not in 480 Ruger, so I don't bother with it anymore. My go to powder for 44mag has always been 2400, but since Lil'Gun worked so well for me in 480 Ruger I would like to try and stick with it.

I wouldnt shoot lilgun out of any of my revolvers. That said theres not gonna be any obvious diff in the killing power of that round from 1550 and 1700 fps. Load for accuracy and dont worry about it. Ill look thru my data when i get home and should be able to get ya some answers for that bullet

I like Accurate #9 in both my 454 Casull and 475 Linebaugh. I've also used IMR 4227 in my 454 Casull and had good success, but I still like #9.

Really? Why in the world not? It might have been initially made for .410, but it's a proven big bore powder. Back when I was loading 480 Ruger 23.5gr of the stuff behind a gas-checked 325gr was wonderful.

Thanks, Linebaugh! That's certainly another option. I bought a jug of AA #9 some time back, but I haven't tried it yet.

Lilgun has been proven to cause damage to the forcing cone in revolvers. Freedom Arms recommends not to use this powder do to the damage it causes..

It made my taurus hotter after 2 shots than h110 did after 4 cylinders full in rapid succession and there really isnt any gain above h110 anyway

And the freedom arms recommendations as well. Talked with bob and wayne about it at sci this year.

I am interested to know what problems you experienced with H-110/296.

[quote=jwp475
I am interested to know what problems you experienced with H-110/296. [/quote]

That's good to know about Lil'Gun... Thanks guys!

With H110 I wasn't able to get decent groups trying to work up a load for 480 Ruger. About 3-4 inches at 25 yards was the best I remember. Also, I couldn't get H110 to do any better than 21gr of 2400 for 44mag.

H-110/296 works best with a full powder charge under the bullet nad no air space. Loaded to the correct amount H-110/296 will give slightly higher velocities with heavy bullets than 2400.

A mag primer should be used with H-110/296 even in the 44 mag

32.0grs of H-110 under a 300gr partition was used to take this bear.1 1/2" group at 50yds.. I`ve also had good accuracy using 27.5grs of AA#9 or 30.0grs of LilGun and the same 300gr partition...

Thanks, James! That's a nice gun and trophy!

Great advice jwp. Ya gotta run h110 pretty hard to get good groups but those are pretty big groups at 25 yards. Just curious how your groups were spread out. Were they clustered with one or two out of the cluster, was it shotgun patterned or was te dispersion more vertical

RJ, I'm shooting 325 gr a-frames and 335 gr cast performance bullets over a max load of W 296 (same powder as h110 as I understand it) with good accuracy in my 7 1/2" SRH. So far I have shot an 8 pt with the 335 gr cast and a coyote with the a-frame and neither took a step after the shot. On a side note W296 works great with 400 gr casts in my 480 Ruger SRH too.

Good luck!

Shotgun patterned sounds like an accurate description.

That sounds like a good place to start (after I work up to it) and I already have an unopened jug of powder, so I'll post my results after I get them.

I use a max charge of H110 under a 300gr XTP although I've been playing with the 240gr XTP Mag since it will handle anything in NA although I'd go back to the 300 for a designated moose or brown bear hunt.

I've had 240gr bullets fail to exit deer, so I don't use them anymore. I'm sure they would be fine at Casull velocities, (the failure was with a 44mag loaded faster than factory spec) but I don't feel like taking the chance.

The mag won't fail to exit a deer from any angle, There is a massive difference between a 240gr hp or jsp and the XTP Mag. There is alot of confusion where there shouldn't be but even the XTP and XTP Mag are two completely different. There is also a massive difference between 44 and 454 velocities. You can base everything on bullet weight withough taking into consideration all the variables.

I used a 240 XTP out of my 44 on a Whitetail this year at 1550+ fps and it just went right through like a hardcast.

well I have a feeling the 240gr described as not passing through was a standard jsp or jhp which may not pass through but cranked up they will. Your talking out of the 454 about a bullet running roughly 2000fps which means with a tough bullet like the XTP Mag or the 250/260gr A Frame or partition it's going to blow straight through even if you hit bone. I've seen 500gr arrows blow through scapulas at 200fps so if the bullet stays together it's going through the deer. The 240gr XTP Mag I'm running out of my 454's will go through the biggest deer from any angle and it's plenty for elk.

I've never had any issues with W296/H110 but I load it close to the max.

H110 always seems to work at max levels, the more you stuff in the more accurate it seems to get, not to mention it's very stable in temperature shifts.

31.4 grains H110 behind a 300gr XTP mag. This is in a FA I personally wouldn't trust it in anything less. Blowing or locking up guns is costly if not deadly! Very accurate load for me.

That's actually the max book load from Hornady and is safe in Rugers and BFR's too. I shoot the same load out of my personal 454 I built on a Ruger frame as well as an FA I have. There is no real discernable difference in strength between Ruger or BFR frame and the FA. For a gun to be sold it has to be able to tolerate twice the saami specified pressure of that cartridge. Rugers when converted still have strength very close to that of an FA, in fact Ruger and BFR frames have been chambered in much more powerfull rounds than the FA. The BFR with it's rifle calibers but either frame can and has been chambered in the 475 and 500 Maximum in their extended versions. All of the testing I've heard of on the Ruger frames puts them well over 100,000 psi, it's to the point they won't print the numbers to avoid people being stupid. The FA's are an excellent off the shelf gun, in fact the best production handgun but they are not the end all, be all of handguns. They all have their strong points and weak points.

Most would be shocked by the torture testing Ruger subjected their SRH in .454. In typical Ruger fashion, they went above and beyond necessity. And it's a six-shot......

I wouldn't fear any book loads in any production .454, and frankly they aren't what they used to be. Even factory .454 loads are rarely all that close to the SAAMI spec of 65,000 psi.

I don't doubt you one bit. I'm just more comfortable with a 300gr. BTW the shot I was talking about was a 240gr Gold Dot with 21gr of 2400 out of a SBH 7.5".

wapitirod, Yes Rugers are good guns too. I own them as well. I don't shoot over what the max that book shows because it only took one time working up loads little by little and without warning it tied up my revolver and it cost me hundreds of dollars to repair it. Though I own FA & Rugers my favorite is my Custom shop model 29. It's reported not to be as strong but it will shoot max loads more accurately for me than the others.

It tied up and cost hundreds of dollars to repair? What was wrong with it if you don't mind me asking?

I have yet to see a Ruger actually blow up from load development, the ones I've seen are normally from powders like unique, HS6, etc. My only issue with FA is the action and the cost and the fact you have to drop another 100.00(?) to get the action to where it should have been and they still aren't as smooth as a Ruger or BFR with a proper action job. They are great guns but as far as psi failure rates I have a strong suspicion if you put them side by side on a bench there wouldn't be that big of a difference in failure points.

I just want to know what got "tied up."

Me2, especially to the point that it cost hundreds of dollars to fix?

This happened on my model 29 about 8 years ago. The damage as I remembered it was the cogs behind the cylinder, the washer in front of the cylinder was flattened, some damage to the forcing cone. I don't remember the powder but I was using a 180grain bullet and working the loads up in either 1/4 or 1/2 grain increments starting above the books max which is where I had been shooting it for 20 years and after each shot I would look for pressure signs and all was fine and then after the next shot I had to come home and dismantle the gun to get the case and remaining ammo out of the cylinder. What I have determined is this pistol likes 240 and 265gr bullets best. I was trying to find the max velocity and as soon as I saw pressure signs back it off 1/2 grain and be happy. This is way [censored] always happens too me. I take it one step to far! I settle for what the book says these days.

and they had to clean up the cylinder that did the damage.

Wait, so which one was damaged, the Ruger or the Model 29? I'm confused.

I don't mind running loads near max but I don't go over and often I'm a grain or two below max, not because the gun won't handle it but that's where the best accuracy is. A chrono helps too if you're working up a load. A lot of times an extra two or three grains has very little effect on velocity. I have stretched one T/C frame by loading in the winter and shooting those in the summer. Depending on where you live you do have to watch out for big temp swings. The thicker air of cold weather will affect POI too.

Dont take this wrong but it doesnt surprise me in the least as theres a huge difference in what a fa, a ruger or a bfr will take. Remember dick casulls origimal fa loads were a 260 gr bullet at over 2300 fps and a 400 gr bullet just over 1600 fps. His guns digested lots of these loads. The ruger is just a bit down the strength curve imho bc of the whole 6 shot issue and the blackhawks dont have the meat on the frame the fa do. The bfr is bigger still. Theyre all good and will last forever if ya care forthe gun.

Rod. I love the fa actions and ive had the trigger jobs on most of mine and really itd be nice if they came that way factory but all my customs amd rugers and bfrs and fa all pale compared to my smiths. The 460 i have has the finest trigger on any gun ive ever seen. Unreal

I do believe "Model 29" is the issue here. Load your 300 gr. bullet with H110 and don't look back. It'll do you right.

Yeah the "problem" with the FA's is that if you even have one of them that has a trigger job, and if you have one FA you'll have more sooner or later, then all of them will "need" one. It does make a difference though and all of mine have trigger jobs and I don't worry about it. If you buy it new then order it with an action job. They are about 8-9 months out right now though.

The model 29 isn't even in the same universe as the FA, BFR or Ruger but as I said the Ruger will take anything you can throw at it otherwise you couldn't convert the max frame to 475 and 500 Max.

That ...

Im going to try and respond to most of you in one post and then be done with this conversation. I joined up a few days ago and did nothing but give honest advice from my experiences of being a long time hunter & shooter and all I have gotten is ridiculed by Wapitirod & AP as if this is some boys club and any new guy to the club should be harrased and ran off if possible and to be questioned on being a real hunter or handgun hunter is crazy! So what's with the titles below our name? How long do I remain a stranger and how does one get a better title? Gary your reply is intelligent and the reason I joined up to listen to experts like you give good information and totally agree to what you said. Rlb, yep a 300grain works great but it's slower than what I like and my 454 can push it much faster for my liking which is why I like the 240 or 265 in my 29 or custom super blackhawk. Yes I honestly do own a custom super blackhawk straight out of Wyoming if you two want to question me on that also. I'm very familar with FA and the 454 I live in Montana not far from FA which is in Wyoming for those who don't know and back in the early-mid 80's Cassul samples and testing samples would show up in the store I worked at back then because they were in the process of getting the word out about this new cartridge so I got the scoop in it's raw form before most had ever heard of such a cartridge. Most of us know the 29 is not as strong as the ruger, bfr, fa, dragoon etc. but as far as a beautful extremely accurate piece of work I will take it over my other guns any day. This gun is from the 1970's nikel plated 8 3/8" and when it got tied up I had S&W custom shop do everything possible to it which was rebuilding it in the custom shop from the ground up. Some of it is new the rest was just finished and rebuilt as good as there custom shop can do and it's wonderful, but it will be babied from here on out.

John Linebaugh is the one who did all the work on that custom super blackhawk and is in Wyoming too.

Relax, step back, take a deep breath......there, that's better. No need to get defensive. Your posts were a bit contradictory and confusing (with regards to tieing up a revolver -- was it the Model 29 or the Ruger?)and a few wanted some clarification. It's all good.

The titles change with post count and have nothing to do with favoritism or "club membership." I don't know at what point someone ceases to be a "stranger," but it may be as little as 25 posts or 50, I don't recall, it's been a while.

Now, let's all play nicely and carryon with the pursuit that we all mutually love -- handgun hunting.

Now can I get an "amen?"

AMEN

Thank you!

You're welcome, I'm sure

Zeb,

Was that M29 new to you from the factory? If it had a washer at the front of the cylinder, this sounds like you are describing a cylinder shim. Smith's do not come from the factory shimmed, as this is usually a "fix" for endshake problems on guns that have been shot a little loose. Maybe it was a case of the gun already being overworked, and you just did not have the normal margins to work with.

Craig

I think I've been thread-jacked

Sorry!

No biggie

Nope, just a Billy Goat and a Troll.


I will let you decide who is who... LOL

OMG, hee, hee.