Minimum velocity for cast bullets for hunting

It's well known amongst the handgun hunting community that cast bullets don't require a lot of velocity to get the job done. My question is, how slow can you push those cast bullets and still expect to get the job done on deer sized game?

Here's the scenario I had in mind: I have a 4 5/8" barreled Ruger Blackhawk 41 Magnum. Last year, I developed a load that pushed a 250 grain Cast Performance WFNGC bullet at 1,244 fps, having settled on a cast bullet due to the lower velocities I expected to attain out of the short barrel. The load was pretty decent, but the recoil was a bit snappy. While browsing some Hodgdon data, I noticed some loads with other powders for the 250 grain bullet that, accounting for the difference in barrel lengths, would push the bullet in the neighborhood of 900 to 1,000 fps. That would certainly make it more pleasant to shoot.

Assuming proper shot placement, do you think that bullet at that speed would be suitable for deer hunting inside 30, maybe 40 yards absolute maximum?

Chance, I've taken a lot of deer in that lower velocity range with the 41 magnum & 1 elk at just a tick over 1100 fps with a 250 WFN. Bullet placement & bullet design is more important as long as you are something like 900 fps or above.
Shoot what you can handle & you will be much better off than shooting a heavy load that bothers you. Good luck.

Dick

as good as can be said

Considering the deer I took last year was shot with a powder coated 240 Grain SWC at around 1030FPS, I'd say you'll be fine with a load as you describe. That deer went about 30 yards and tipped over ... cant get deader than dead.

1873 US Army got the 45Colt ctg 255gr @850fps... Army told Colt

they needed a 45 caliber capable of penetrating a horse @ 100yds

and killing an lndian on the other side.. History tells us the 45

did a great job on the lndians AND their horses.

With that lntro l don't think any Whitetail deer could be

more difficult than a horse.. ALWAYS remembering that old saying.

With real estate and bullets its ROCATION LOCATION LOCATION

I've killed quite a few hogs in the 70 to 130 pound range with a 200 gr. RNFP traveling 940 FPS from my 1911 45ACP at ranges 35/40 yards and under. Some were total pass through if I stayed outta the shoulders.

I load the Oregon Trails 250gn RNFP @1100 FPS. I have not shot any game yet but, plan on packing for 2 & 4 legged protection while grouse hunting this fall. I have a 4 5/8" Blackhawk with Burris Red dot mounted.

Hendog: I USE THE OTBC 250gr RNFP A LOT, WHAT IS YOUR LOAD FOR THE 1,100fps OUT OF THE 4 5/8" BLACKHAWK?

I shoot a lot of skeet so I always have green dot on hand. I use 10 grains of GD with the Oregon Trails RNFP.

Wasn't someone killing cape buffalo with a 300 wfn out of a 45 revolver at like 950 though5 I read about that somewhere.... At 1000 fps a good cast bullet should break both from shoulders and probably kill the deer on the other side of that one lol you could probably shoot through a deer end to end with it as long as it's heavy. Heavy bullets are more important than velocity when you start talk cast.

Heavy bullets give momentum. Velocity gives both but is diminishing but not important at revolver ranges. Shooting a cape buff with that load is certainly a poor idea. They take some killing. Sure they will evtentually die sometimes but i have shot alot of oryx and found old bullets in the vitals that didnt kill em. Capes are quite a bit tougher. That load would work on deer but hit em right. Nothing translates from deer to cape buff as far as what works.

Deer are actually quite easy with proper hits but most deer even in the west aren't all that big. The biggest deer are probably in the midwest corn belt country, or perhaps Ohio or Michigan. I think many of those deer are bigger than what we have here in the west in spite of what many people think.
BUT driving a Volkswagen is a lot different than driving a semi!! When you take the giant leap to Cape or Water Buffalo, neither of which I have any experience, then you had better shoot them with very big bullets with all the speed you can handle. Why would you use anything less on a Sherman Tank!!
Again, I consider elk to be the toughest animal to kill in the lower 48, they are way down from the big Buffalo, trust me.
Shooting the big stuff with big bullets & slow loads is inviting disaster for somebody, it might work but don't depend on it, you need horsepower to kill mega big animals.
So, the short answer is, good bullet placement, good bullets & good velocity, leave any one of those 3 out & your buddies might have to send a post card to your wife. Just my opinion.

Dick

Dick, interesting point. Let me ask you this, would you say included in that lower 48 comment that elk are harder to kill than bison? I would agree if you would say yes. Ive had elk stand up to good hits and take longer to go down than significantly larger bison. Anatomically speaking, their lungs collapse easier than elk imho. Your thoughts?

Mark, even though I've never killed a Bison (hope to soon) I think elk are tougher to kill. I've taken 25 over the years & would have taken many more but 13 years of high school coaching cost me dearly. I've also been in on probably another 50 at least with my kids & friends. These are mountain animals that climb almost daily, they are strong, durable animals & I've seen them take an incredible pounding if you hit them wrong the first time.
A big bull with 3-4 rutting seasons under his belt has thick hide on his shoulders & is a powerful animal. I always say, shoot the most you can handle accurately, shooting what "uncle charlie" uses might not be the best for everyone. Nothing trumps accuracy & good bullets.
Give me a small caliber & good bullets & I can probably figure it out. Over gun me, even with good bullets, or give me a great gun with mediocre bullets & everyone reading this probably knows the out come isn't going to be good, just my opinion.

Dick

I have killed deer and hogs with 240gr SWC bullets between 830fps and 870fps. normally pass right through. .44 specials.

I agree dick. To many it was sacrilege to say elk were tougher than bison but ive always thought so as well.

I am not trying to be a smart a$$ but at handgun velocities the most important factor in cast bullet killing power is frontal area and penetration. I am talking deer at this point. A .44 or .45 SWC with a good flat meplat at just about any velocity that gives sufficient penetration to get into the vital organs will kill any deer that walks on this earth...

You are correct!

Dick

If you are to use a velocity of 850-1000 fps for deer, I believe you would be well off using approx. 10 BHN. (20:1 range) If you are using hardcast bullets in the 20-22 BHN range, I would use a WFN in a velocity range of 1200-1350 fps. In my experience WFN hardcast perform best at these speeds. ( wound channel size) This is based on my own personal observations only. JMO

Some years back, we came upon John Taffin at the YO Ranch. He had shot a large Bison bull with what I believe was the first .480 Ruger ever chambered in a Freedom Arms Revolver. John was just standing there holding the pistol. The Bison was just standing there looking at John. I asked John if he was going to shoot the Bison again. He replied that the Bison was already dead, but due to its primitive nervous system, it just had not realized it was dead. Like Dick, I have not shot a cape buffalo, but I understand they are the same way. An angry cape buffalo can do a lot of damage before realizing he is deceased. I think nothing less than a .460 Weatherby would be required.

Bison die easily. The lungs collapse easily. The cape buff is built for combat and is on a whole different level. I recommend shooting both and comparing. They arent the same.

I have never shot a bison or cape buff, but no matter what I shoot, if its still standing I'm still shooting.If I have to I will reload and shoot more.

ANY LARGE BOVINE CAN BE DANGEROUS BECAUSE OF THEIR SIZE BUT THE CAPE BUUFALO HAS A BAD ATTITUDE TOO, ESPECIALLY IF WOUNDED AND BEING TRACKED. I SAW A FRIEND PUT A 3 SHOT CLOVERLEAF INTO THE SHOULDER OF A GOOD SIZED AMERICAN BISON WITH A 500 A SQUARE, THE BULL JUST STOOD THERE AND FINALLY WENT DOWN AND DIED. IF YOU HIT A CAPE AND HE DOESN'T GO DOWN HE WILL HAUL ASS. BEWARE IF YOU TRACK YOUR WOUNDED CAPE, THEY DON'T LIKE THAT AND MAY CIRCLE AROUND AND AMBUSH YOU WITH EVERY INTENT OF POUNDING YOUR ASS INTO THE GROUND.

500 asquare huh? Someone?s not messing around! Thats some serious artillery there.

No such thing as killing something too dead!