BFR 454 vs FA 454 vs Ruger Custom (about 6.5")

I'm enjoying my 460 XVR and am now considering a BFR, FA, or custom Ruger conversion based on my .45 Colt Blackhawk. All in 454 Casull. I'd be interested in a 5.5-6.5" barrel.


Would you expect a difference in velocity between the BFR and FA?

Is the FA's fit and finish worth the extra money? Looks like BFRs are $1,000 and FAs are about $2,500.

Lastly, what about having my .45 Colt Blackhawk converted to a .454? I think I'd want the grip frame changed to a Bisley unit and would want the existing 4 5/8" barrel replaced. Who are the best people converting Rugers? What do you think it may cost to have the grip frame swapped out, barrel replaced, cylinder switched out for 454, and any other work that is suggested but I don't know about?


You guys are a great resource and I appreciate every second you're able to spend on giving new guys advice.

Velocity difference between the FA and BFR should be minimal. We already know how well put together the FA is, but BFRs are really good as well. I have both and prefer the BFR with the Bisley grip frame (see photo bellow).

No need to have a Ruger built when Ruger already makes a .454 Bisley. That said, there is a reason few top custom gun builders will make you a .454 on a Blackhawk/Super Blackhawk. I have a pre-production .454 Bisley and I shot it loose pretty quickly. I think it makes for a better .45 Colt +P revolver than a .454. The Super Redhawk would be a better choice but it's a double-action.

Personally I think the best bang for the buck is the BFR, and you can safely carry it with a round under the hammer so it's a true 5-shot. JMHO.

Max, I'm just going to adopt your humble opinion as my own. BFR it is.

Now, if I don't want to get into reloading (as that seems like a full-time hobby unto itself, based on watching my father reload when I was growing up), is there any reason to get the .475 Linebaugh instead of the .454 Casull? I'm already finding that 460 can be hard to find in CA shops but those same shops always have a box of 454 lying around. I assume no one carries .475 Linebaugh in brick and mortar stores. I can order on-line but it has to be shipped to someone with a Fed Ammunition License so they can run the background check. Seriously.

I'll give your questions a shot. I have Ruger 7 1/2" 45 Bisley (custom John Powers), a BFR Bisley 6 1/2" 454 (standard gun, not Performance Shop), and a FA 10" 454. There is approx 100 fps between the FA and BFR, which you would expect considering the longer FA barrel. If the FA and BFR had equal barrel lenghts, I doubt there would be enough velocity difference to matter. The custom Ruger and the FA both have a .002 b/c gap, the BFR is .005. The FA is very refined and, to me, worth its cost. The BFR is a great gun at a reasonable cost. I would not want to convert my Ruger to 454. It is perfect in 45 Colt.

I would hope that every handgunner could own at least one custom Ruger, and a FA, and a BFR. Good luck, and no doubt you will enjoy whatever you choose.

Leaning towards the Performance Shop (thanks for pointing out the existence of this option Seminole Wind, probably cost me $500) BFR 6.5" Bisley in 454 Casull. Maybe even with my initials on the frame.

Glad I could help spend your money!

My .454 is a Precision Center gun...

I am watching this thread closely, as I find myself wanting (needing?) a .454 revolver.

This response is going to be controversial. And I should note, the following is purely based on the 460 caliber. Take it for what it?s worth.

I?ve owned or own a 8.4 standard Smith 460, a 10.5 Smith PC 460, and. 7.5 BFR 460. I have zero experience with FA.

If you want performance and nothing else, the BFR is the way to go. My 7.5? was 200 FPS faster than my standard Smith 8.4? with identical loads. However, if you want accuracy, the BFR is not your best bet. I truly believe the BFR has a design flaw with its long cylinder. I could never match the accuracy with the BFR that my smith has. Be it from the gain twist rifling and/or a cylinder that was built to match a specific caliber, the smith kicked its azz in group size. Simply put, when you create a cylinder that?s too long for a specific caliber, the jump a bullet has to make from brass to barrel greatly affects accuracy.

The high velocity of a BFR vs Smith is due to a SA vs a swing out DA cylinder. Both of my smiths have a .004 cylinder gap. The BFR had a .002. That .002 was significant in terms of performance.

My PC 10.5? gives me the same velocities as the 7.5? BFR and disturbingly good accuracy.

The BFR long cylinder appears to have been built for the 45-70 and then merely adapted for shorter calibers. Certainly a cost efficiency for MR and is probably one of the reasons their revolvers are half the price of FA. But it affects accuracy, plain and simple.

A short cylinder BFR in .454 casull could possibly be a completely different story.

If I were to get another 454, it would be the BFR. I love my 45-70 and 475 Linebaugh.

If you reloaded, I would suggest the 475 Linebaugh. I prefer it over the 454's I've owned.

Honestly though, it's hard to beat a 45 Colt. I'm really starting to grow fond of that caliber.

Interesting and all revolvers are different. My bfr and smith both shoot about 1.4-1.5? groups at 100 with swift aframe loads. Difference is significantly more velocity from the bfr but thats a small issue when you are at those velocities but since i basically hunt offhand. I have the bisley grip and i love it. Way easier to shoot offhand than the plow handle. Smith trigger superior out of the gate. That said. Every fa 454 i habe is sockenly accurate. Velocity bw the fa and the bffr is a wash. The bfr is very accurate as well. Bfr bisley handles recoil better and can be safely carried with 5. Fa is the most precisely built 454 that exists. The bfr is half the cost and just the value of the century and thats the precision center guns

I don't think your theory is correct, Randy. I have experienced nothing but great accuracy from all of the long-framed BFRs that I have owned and shot. Maybe yours was a lemon -- it's possible. The .500 S&W has an even shorter case and bigger jump to make. This is a 50 yard group with a factory Magtech 400 grain load.



My .460 BFR is more of the same. Here are a couple of 50 yard groups with factory loads. With handholds I should be able to tighten things up a bit. I don't consider myself a great shot with scopes and actually do better with red dots, but these revolvers just shoot and there's not much to it as they are big enough to absorb a lot of potentially punishing recoil. Not trying to be a contrarian, I simply haven't experienced what you have experienced.

I?ll throw my two cents in on this also.

The BFR has never really caught on down here, although it seems to be a fine revolver. If you must have a new revolver and cost is a limiting factor, this may be the way to go.

My .454 is a Freedom Arms, and once you use them, it becomes apparent why they cost what they do, and they are worth every penny. I have no problem with the grip shape. Mine is a five shot and that?s what I carry in it. I also invest in good leather to carry it.

As Whitworth stated, there is a reason few build .454s on Ruger frames. You?d do just as well with a five shot .45 Colt conversion from a performance standpoint. However, this will likely be your most costly route in terms of money and time. Pressure on the Casull is set at a max of 65,000 psi, and most factory loads, if I recall correctly, are loaded to a max pressure of 52-55k .

I had a Super Redhawk in .454, and it is one of the few handguns I was happy to sell. It should have never been made a six shot in my not so humble opinion. It would choke on loads the Raging Bull had no problem handling.

If you look around, used FA revolvers can be found for not much more than the cost of a Performance Center BFR.

I can't match the experience that some of the members here have but, I do own and shoot all you are talking about. The FA83/454 I had to get because it was the best production revolver made. The revolver did not disappoint. It has the accuracy, craftsmanship, and strength everyone talks about. It seems to make you a better shooter. [at least in my case] Drawback [if you could call it that] is you have to keep it clean or it locks up because of the tight tolerances. The BFR is not as "refined" but it is definitely not lacking. It has the accuracy and strength to handle all of its chamberings and it does it well. [and you can shoot more rounds before you have to clean it up] The custom route gives you a revolver tailored for your personal likes. I have to agree with the advise some of the others have already given about not going with the 454 in a Blackhawk as a custom and buying one already chambered as such. On my last note [JMHO] I would take a good look at the 480/475 chamberings.

Whit, it?s definitely possible I had a lemon. I really wanted to like that gun.

Also, all my accuracy tests were done at 100 yards. For me, 50 yards with an optic topped revolver isn?t far enough to show what the true accuracy is.

I'm glad you and many others have had better experiences. If I ever buy another SA, however, I will probably search for a used FA.

RANDY: WAY BACK WHEN YOU WERE GOING TO BUY A XVR I THINK I RECOMMENDED THE PC GUN OVER THE STANDARD 8 3/8ths, BUT YOU WENT WITH THE STANDARD, THEN WENT WITH A BFR, AND NOW TO A 10.5 INCH PC XVR, WHERE YOU FINALLY SEEM TO HAVE FOUND WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR, YOU SHUDA LISTENED TO UNCLE REY AND SAVED A LOT OF MONEY.

WAS WONDERING WHY YOU HAD GONE FROM THE BFR BACK TO A XVR, NOW "I KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY".

Yep you did.

Yes I should have.

I have a slight stubborn side to me...

I have found that if it?ll group at 50 it?ll group at 100, particularly if it?ll shoot sub-inch groups at 50. The accuracy doesn?t go away at 100 yards. The range I was shooting at was limited to 50 yards or I would?ve gone out farther.

I?m not sure I follow. How would your SRH ?choke on? loads the Raging Bull had no problem handling? The six-shot configuration doesn?t seem to be problematic in my experience.

Each firearm is a law unto itself and your mileage obviously varies from mine.

Rob, just looking for a clarification. What do you mean by ?choke on??

Rob and I were hunting groundhogs in WV with his new .454 SuperRedhawk. Had cylinder rotation problem, so-so accuracy, cylinder rotating backwards. Nice looking gun, but poor performer.
I still wanted one. Bought it. Sent it to Ken Kelly before I ever fired it. Told him to make it right. He did all his fancy/practical upgrades. Now it shoots greats. Handles all the full power loads my FA .454 and Raging Bull do. I feel this gun has to be tweaked by a pro to perform the way it should. Ruger wasn't up to that on the originals.
As far as the .454/.475 question. I have each in 7 1/2" FAs. They perform great. Both will do 1 1/2- 2" at 100 when I do my part. I feel the .454 is a pretty much SOFT do everything gun. It'll kill the great big boys, but not much margin for error.
The .475 is a step above the .454 in power. I've done water buff, Cape buff, lioness,and rhino with mine. Did great on all. I carry it as a backup on WV bear hunts, plus killed one with it. Also had a wounded bear come at me growling. He melted at 6 feet with a center chest shot. I consider it and my .500s my big boy guns.
A note on Raging Bulls. I have them in .41, .454,.500. Zero problems. Close to FA accuracy. Greatest revolver grip made.

Yeah, but now you have no regrets either. Those big pc guns are just too big to shoot offhand but i do love the 7.5? version. But those barrel lengths just dont give me much over my fa83?s. That said,, an xvr 8 3/8? 460 is what My son used in africa. Easy to shoot.

If ya want more than a 454 go 500. I dont feel the 475 does much of anything better than a 454 unless youre gonna use cast. Use monometals or premium expanding bullets and velocity becomes king. Then again theres those that think a 480 is a bigger hammer than a 460.

Srabbit, with all the posts, have you decided which handgun you will get????

Yeah, pick one and go. Theyll all work well if loaded and shot properly.

I have sent,not one, but two Super Redhawks in .454 back to Ruger for reverse cylinder rotation.

Isn?t the S&W 460 XVR a gain twist?

Could this account for velocity differences between it and the BFR?

Possibly. But I think the cylinder gap is more likely the cause.

Theres an interesting article about the cylinder to forcing cone length jump amd velocity article from years ago when looking at the actual increase in velocity that was seen when testing revolvers vs semi autos and the higher velocity out of the revolvers despite not have longer barrels. Yes cylinder gap helps as well but its been my experience that even the 500?s without gain twist rifling are significantly slower than their bfr counterparts. I also dont know how much the long cylinder affects accuracy since mine have been very accurate as well as the smiths. That said, in response to what has been or needed to be sent back; ive had 6 fa guns. Two had to go back due to having chambers too tight. One was a serial breaker of firing pins until they addressed that issue. One had the ability to get to the half cock position not work after a few months. Fa?s customer is exemplary and all guns fixed and returned in no time. Ive sent lots of my smiths back. Great guns but just not too durable if shot alot with heavy loads. Only guns i havent sent back are the bfr?s and ive been really fortunate with my super redhawks.

One thing really cool about Magnum Research is the fact that they keep making refinements and actually listen to their customers. My .454 was just equipped with their new wide-spur hammer. Just got it today and really like it thus far.

Now I'm thinking of the 6.5" BRF in 454 or a similar length FA 83 in .454. It sounds like the 454 has all the power I'll need with commercial ammo that is more widely available than 460, 475, 480, etc. I'm not going to reload because I don't want to add that hobby to my life.

I like the idea of the .475 Linebaugh, much like I like the idea of eating fish, but the reality of finding commercial 475 in a state that mucks-up on-line orders is like living with the taste of fish.

Recoil question. Until my 7.5" PC 460, I had very limited experience with hard kicking pistols. The 44 mag was basically my limit with the exception of some 300 grain Corbon .45 Colt I detonated in my Blackhawk.

In the PC 7.5" 460, any 454 I've shot has been mild on recoil. It's 5 lbs with a muzzle brake and very effective rubber grips.

What am I in for with a 454 in a FA or BFR-weight pistol? I know the recoil will be worse. But how much worse? Do people usually port the barrels on 454 single actions?

I installed a brake after I injured the wrist of my shooting hand.
I look at all of the beautiful God given game I`ve taken with that 454 as either pre or post brake... That Shiras moose taken in the mountains of Utah was pre-brake

Here it is - 6 1/2-inch Bisley in .454 Casull.

I have not ported the barrel on but two revolvers, and only because it was part of the conversion packages. Recoil is subjective, and difficult to quantity from one person to the next. I recommend you shoot both revolvers if possible to see how they feel to you.

Max, thanks. I'll take that one!

Looks like a good one from BFR in 454 Casull in that picture. Bisley grip and that wider hammer spur are the berries. I would have Mag-Na-Port do their dual trapezoidal porting on it if you get it. Worth the investment in my opinion. Or get a 5 inch muzzle brake equipped 460 Smith and Wesson magnum and use it as a 454 Casull platform.

This morning I woke-up thinking I deserve the best. So, a Premier Grade 83 is front and center in my mind today.

Its kinda the best. Its the tightest fitted but not functionally the best.

If you could talk me into a BFR, my wife would appreciate it.

Its just a little more about what you want. Advantages of fa 83 is its just tight. Not necessarily an advantage when its gets dirty for sure. The freedom arms front sight is an advantage as well to a degree. I have 5 freedom arms, 4 bfrs, and 7 super redhawks. They each have their advantages and each company has its less than guns and they run according to price. I listed the freedom arms advantages. Versus a bfr precision shop the bfr advantages are a possibly better trigger, larger cylinder which allows use of longer bullets and bullets that are almost at the edge of the fa cylinder still have a ways to go in the bfr before they back out and tie up the cylinder. The bfr has a free spinning pawl which allows counter rotation of the cylinder so u can back up and unload a pulled bullet that would necessitate taking the cylinder out of the freedom arms to clear. The bfr has a transfer bar safety which allows the gun to be carried safely with all chambers loaded. The bfr is heavier and stronger but not so much that you cant use the fa holsters for the bfr. I use fa holsters for all my small cylinder bfr?s. The bfr is definitely a stronger gun. For the price of a precision center gun you can send it to jack huntington and have a front sight base placed that will accept fa sight blades and the action tuned to a level the fa guns wont ever be coming from freedom arms and still be 1000 bucks under the fa price. Also, the bfr bisley grip hamdles recoil better than the fa grip and produces much less knuckle rapping than the fa though both are good, the bfr is excellent. The bfr has been improved on a regular basis so dont take reviews of one from 15 years ago as gospel now. Much has been improved even in the last 2 years. Its your money but have a bunch of all of em and if i were doing it over again now id have a bunch of bfrs and srh guns.

For a size comparison, BFR top, FA 83 bottom:

FA is carried with the hammer on an empty chamber?

Mine sure is !!!! First off an excellent choice in the 454. You can get ammo nearly anywhere. I do like the 454 and wanted to say that the Barnes performs well, and has taken several animals.
It is lighter than the Swift, and therefore a little less recoil. Swift that I use is the 300gr.
I never actually owned a Super Redhawk. But, I shot a few and I have to admit that there is Less FELT recoil with Rugers new choice in Rubber grip.

The BFR and its odd looking grip WORKS !!! I did not feel the recoil much when shooting a 500JRH. You will be getting a short cylinder with the 454, so a long jump will not be happening.
I have not had problems handloading for the 454. I have started with new components. Also, When Budsgunshop has the Federal 300gr on sale and free shipping,,
I don't worry too much about rolling my own.

Charles

Thanks charles. Thats a good deal on the aframes. Wow. Good price

I carry with all five chambers filled, guess I?m a rebel that way.

Does the FA have a hammer-mounted firing pin?

I don't know. The FA is prettier. Pretty matters to me in guns, bows, knives, and motorcycles.

THE FIRING PINS ON MY FA REVOLVERS ARE MOUNTED IN THE FRAME. I HAVE READ, AND REREAD THE FA MANUAL, AND I DO NOT FEEL CONFIDENT ENUFF TO CARRY FULLY LOADED SO I ALWAYS LOAD 4 AND HAVE THE HAMMER DOWN ON AN EMPTY CHAMBER. NEVER NEEDED THE 5th ROUND, EITHER FINISHED IT WITH 4 OR LESS, OR ALWAYS HAD TIME TO RELOAD.

My initial reaction was to write-off the FA when I heard it should be carried with 4 rounds. But then, this isn't my Home D pistol. I feel like the FA is the prettiest girl in school, but the BFR is the smart girl in glasses and overalls who could be Prom Queen if I'd only give her the chance.

My choice would be the BFR.

As are mine, but I have no qualms about carrying a fully loaded cylinder in my FAs.

What about buying a 6.5" Ruger Super Blackhawk in .454 Casull and sending it to one of the famous revolver smiths to tune?

I think I posted this earlier, but I tested these guns for Ruger and they won't hold up to a lot heavy loads. They make for a better .45 Colt +P gun than a .454.

Got it. Sorry, I thought before you were only referring to Rugers converted from 45 Colt to 454.

I'm leaning towards the FA 83 with a 6" barrel.

I have one, great gun. Took a capebuff with it and put it down with one shot. You will like it.

TheSavageRabbit, I shoot a FA83 in 454 Casull and do not reload either. I contacted Reeds ammo and they worked up a special load for me for the 454. Hornady XTP 250gr at 1250fps. I can comfortably shoot a box of 50 without any issues. Cost, the same as their regular 454. Very nice and clean shooting. I have them make me custom 45 Colt +P as well. So, though it is cheaper hand loading and you have more flexibility, you can also have custom factory loads as well.

Great revolver, like Tradmark, I believe you?ll enjoy it.

In general, I prefer customs because I can get whatever I want. I get to choose the material, configuration, barrel length and profile, grip frame and grips, sights, finishes, everything. The possibilities are endless. Options are limited with the FA and BFR and the only material available is stainless steel. I'm pretty much over stainless. The drawback is that the heavy duty five-shot conversions cost more than either of your other two options and there is usually a long wait involved.




That said, both the FA and BFR are very well made guns. The BFR's are certainly better made than Rugers and they are a fantastic value. The FA's are better made than that but it comes at a price. Both are brutally strong. However, there are things I don't like about the BFR and I don't see any overcoming that. To me, the FA is a much better looking and more comfortable to shoot sixgun. Great deals can be found on used guns, especially the Field Grade. All of which is why I have one in .454/.45Colt and no BFR's.




With all that in mind, the .454 throws in a caveat or two. I really don't think a Ruger single action frame should be run at 65,000psi. So if that is the goal, BFR or FA are a better choice. Most factory loads and much handloading data is in the 50,000psi range and that should be fine for the Ruger if you're not shooting an excessive amount of full pressure loads. Personally, I'd keep the Ruger Bisley .454 with five-shot .45Colt loads and consider it settled.

One suggestion I would make is the Super Redhawk. They're not the prettiest girl to invite to the prom but their beauty lies in their utility. I prefer the optic mounted over the frame, rather than the barrel and the SRH allows you to keep your iron sights in place. For a pure hunting sixgun, I see none better.

Srh is undoubtedly the most versatile hinting sixgun that exists. I got the action tuned by jack huntington and now its the one i cant live without.

I can't get on board with the SRH. The aesthetic is too ? "unique." "Beauty in utility" is how I justify Glocks. But living with the looks of the SRH is a bridge too far for me.

I woke-up this morning thinking about the 475 Linebaugh. The .454 makes more sense for a non-handloader, I think. But there is just something about the .475 that is attractive. Maybe it just seems more wild and intriguing.

I had the Ruger bisley as well as the super red in .454. I didn't care for either, or the caliber that much. It's a good round, but just not my cup of tea.

Bought a BFR in .475 Linebaugh, and it is one gun I will never part with. Recoil is about the same as the 454, just not as jumpy ( to me ).

Personally, I wouldn't pay the money for a FA. The BFR will do the same thing just as well as the FA for less $. I'm sure FA is a well made weapon, not knocking them.

Total 180 today. Since finding ammo is going to be a chore either way and because I already have the 460XVR to handle 460 and 454, maybe I should be adventurous and buy my next revolver in 475. That introduces me to the 475 Linebaugh and the 480 Ruger. Maybe I just need to accept that living in CA means that finding ammo is a never-ending scavenger hunt.

If bullet choice is a challenge stick to 454 or 500 jrh. You will thank me later.

I'd have to agree. Not a lot of choices out there for .475. Plenty of .500

I'm just a .475 fan boy. I can't help myself.

Have a matched pair of 6? FAs in .475 Linebaugh. Believe one will go with me for bear this coming December.

The .475 and .500 Linebaugh are great cartridges but compared to our other choices, they're rather limited. I have to look at bullet selection as a major factor and there are just a lot more choices for .44's, .45's and .501's.



I used to think the same thing, then I got over it. Now I have a "set".

I have many sets of srh?s. Just great guns. If you go 475 you will want the slightly longer cylinder of the bfr bs the fa gun.

Also, bullet weights you will be lucky to load to 1400fps in the 475 can run into 1600fps territory fairly easily. When jack made that cartridge he took all things into account and made the best of the best out of a ?normal? large frame revolver. Freedom arms shoulda stuck with that cartridge as their 50 cal rather than their wyoming express.

Max,

In your opinion are the 480 Ruger Bisleys over powered?

When I endurance tested the .480 Bisley, it held up a lot better than the .454 version.

I am a supporter of the 480 Ruger because it has a lower pressure threshold than a 475 Linebaugh and the recoil is more of a strong push than a sharp wrenching and fast recoil sensation. And just 100 fps less velocity means terminal results are identical. Dead animal laying out.

And I believe Magnum Research Biggest Finest Revolvers are great because of their Bisley grip option,heavier frame and that they listen to what customers request. I like that new hammer you showed as coming from BFR Whitworth. A 500 JRH with a 5.5 inch barrel and Bisley grip sounds like a plan. With that wider spur hammer of course.