Handgunhunt

Need some opinions/advise here

Posted By: TChunter

Need some opinions/advise here - 12/24/2006 10:57 PM

I finally got the scope and set it up to shoot on the 460 barrel on my Encore. I shot 20 rounds of 454 and 20 of 460 and by the time I was done, my hands were bleeding in four places. Two on my left and two on my right. BTW, this was WITH a good pair of Mechanix gloves on. After about the first 10 shots I found a good position (away from that damn trigger gaurd!) and things went better, but I still took a pounding!

Before we go farther: a little background on me

I am a pretty decent sized guy. I am 6', 200 lbs and go to the gym about 4 times a week. Im not bragging, but I am in pretty good shape. I shoot alot and really enjoy it. I shoot a .300 win mag and a 12 slug gun regularly and have no flench. I have shot 338's and even a .375 h and h. I dont mind big recoil, but to put it honestly this thing with 460's in it scares the HELL out of me.


I got it on the paper decent with the 454s and then tried the 460s. of course they hit differently, but I done a little better with the 454. I seem to be still very inconsistent as a rule though.

I done this all at about 40 yards. I shot off a table with bags and tried to keep my hand and forearm placement consistent.

The best group I pulled off was with the 454 and was about 5" with 3 shots.




The barrel has no brake and I know one would help, but I just dont have the $$ to put into it right now.

My immediate thought was to sell it or trade to someone (like Jhunter) that has more experience with these big bore handguns. I was wanting to go with a .243 or 7-08 or even a .308

Here are my concerns/questions:

1) yeah, it could be the cheapo NCstar scope, but going on my inexperience with big handguns (this is my first) I am leaning more towards the shooter.One thing is it didnt seem to track well. I would hit say 10 inches low at 35yrds and then adjust about 40 clicks with like 2" of difference. I know the adjustments are 1/4"@ 100, but shouldnt I see more movement than that? Even at 35? but then again I am worried this is just my form or something.

2) Although trading for a .243 or the like would make it a little more affordable to shoot, is the recoil between that and the 454's in this gun gonna be that different. If its not that much different than maybe I should stick with the 454s (I actually found them somewhat pleasureable to shoot) and as my experience grows, work my way up to the 460?


I did offer Jhunter a trade, but I havent heard back from him. I am sure he is just busy with the holidays so I decided to get some feedback while I wait.

Please help!!! I really wanted to hunt with this thing this year, but I am afraid I have bit off more than I can chew with this hand tearing, forehead knocking sum beach!!
Posted By: RickyP

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/24/2006 11:37 PM

I have a 12" 454 encore barrel with no break and it is a handful. none of my encore barrels have a break on them and I have 15" 209x50, 15" 45-70, 14.5" 308 winchester, 12" 45/410 and a 12" 454. I will say the 454 with full loads with a 300 gr bullet is the hardest on my hands.
When I started with the 454 I had a set of rubber encore grips on it and I too had bloody knuckles I have since got a set of Georgia Jim wood grips in the herrett style with thumb rest and they have helped a lot, the recoil is not as bad because ti spreads it over more of my hand. the grips are well worth the money.

If the 454 and 460 are too much for you try shooting heavy 45 colt loads in it and then work up to light 454 loads.
another thing you can try is getting a set of weight lifting gloves or a set of shooting gloves (they are close to the same thing) the gloves you used offer very little protection for a handgun
Posted By: JLarsson

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/25/2006 12:39 AM

Quote:

One thing is it didnt seem to track well. I would hit say 10 inches low at 35yrds and then adjust about 40 clicks with like 2" of difference. I know the adjustments are 1/4"@ 100, but shouldnt I see more movement than that? Even at 35?



In theory, a scope that moves 1/4" per click @ 100 yards will move 1/16" per click @ 25 yards. At 35 yards, figure about 12 clicks per inch. So - again, in theory - you would have moved the POI about 3-1/3 inches @ 35 yards with 40 clicks.

But if you've got a 5" group going already with only 3 shots - be it the shooter or the scope - you've not even moved out of the group yet. So it really would be hard to tell.

Might not be the scope OR the shooter - might be the load. Are you shooting factory rounds? It's entirely possible that you're not shooting the .460's well because of the recoil and the .454's because they don't fill the chamber or your barrel doesn't like them or......

Got any friends that are used to hard-recoiling handguns that could give it a go?
Posted By: KYODE

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/25/2006 2:53 AM

if ya keep it....ya better brake it. your hands will not always be young n strong severe recoil could damage your hands i would think.
a really good brake would make a pussy cat outta it....with LOTS of power.
Posted By: s4s4u

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/25/2006 3:13 AM

Quote:

2) Although trading for a .243 or the like would make it a little more affordable to shoot, is the recoil between that and the 454's in this gun gonna be that different



Like night and day brother, you'd think you was shootin rimfires in that 243. Well, not really but there is a marked difference, as well as increased range and flatter trajectory. If you want a bit more energy a 260 or 7-08 would still seem like pussycats compared to the 460 or even 454. A brake would help considerably as well, before you develop bad habits or hurt yourself.
Posted By: Gary

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/25/2006 4:35 AM

A 12" .454 Encore with out a break is one of the hardest kicking handguns I've ever shot - I can't imagine the 460. Set up properly they can be shot with out drawing blood - you've experienced the opposite. If you're going to keep them they definitely need a brake and it wouldn't hurt to put a heavier scope on as well. Besides I don't think the NC Star will hold up for long on them anyway.
Posted By: Tigger

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/25/2006 5:49 AM

I will agree with the rest of the guys. The 454 and 460 are very heavy hitters. There is no need to shoot them without a break. I have shot the 460 in an encore barrel. It was a custom OTT with his shark gill break. Recoil was reduced enough that you could shoot 50 rounds from the bench and still enjoy it. Here is the video of me and a few others shooting. If you watch the 375 Win barrel recoils as much or more than the breaked 460. When I shhot the 460 standing up it's in slow motion to show that the break makes recoil more of a shove than the fierce and snappy.


VIDEO

Just click on "play video" in the upper right hand corner.

I have shoot encore barrels chambered in 500 S&W, 458 Win Mag, 50 Alaskan, 460 S&W, and 445 Super Mag. All with the OTT break. Recoil is reduced in half or more. The 458 I was shooting off the bench one handed. I was using my left hand to squeeze the sandbag under the grip to adjust elevation.


If you get the recoil under control the groups will tighten up. I'm also thinking about that time the NC Star will let go and your groups will open back up. If it was me I'd have a Leupold on top.
Posted By: scottk

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/25/2006 9:25 PM

I hope this relates somehow. I have both the 5" and 8 3/8" S&W revolvers in .460 S&W Mag. Both revolvers are about 6 lbs with the mounts, rings and scopes and both have brakes. I am using very heavy Warne mounts and rings because S&W recommends nothing but steel to tie down the scope with. The weight and breaks on these revolvers make them pretty managable to shoot. They also have Hogue rubber grips with some sort of gel rubber in the web area. I would consider putting wider grips on and forgoing the narrow, ruuber ones with the gel in the webbing. I have shot the 8 3/8" revolver without the break on it and it definately gets unpleasent in a hurry. IMHO,go with a break and consider a wider rear grip. Also consider a longer rifle type forestock with some weight in it.
Posted By: TChunter

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/25/2006 10:05 PM

Thanks for all the help guys. This is all very good info.

I am still in limbo about keeping it.

How much would Bellm or someone else reputable charge for a brake? Anyone know?
Posted By: s4s4u

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/25/2006 10:33 PM

Quote:

How much would Bellm or someone else reputable charge for a brake? Anyone know?



Most customs run around $150 installed. Fox Ridge will put on a T/C brake for $85 I'm thinkin', or abouts there.
Posted By: KYODE

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/25/2006 11:35 PM

the TC brake from fox ridge, although cheaper, would probably help on muzzle rise but still leave a lot of thump felt into the hand. that was true of a 35rem i shot with one, and compared to one without.

me personally.....i'd use a OTT shark gill brake if i were to brake it. it is very effective. several folk over at "specialty pistols" site use that brake(even a 460 er two) n all report great news.
Posted By: RickyP

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/26/2006 12:28 AM

PM sent about the barrel
Posted By: s4s4u

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/26/2006 1:00 PM

Quote:

the TC brake from fox ridge, although cheaper, would probably help on muzzle rise but still leave a lot of thump felt into the hand. that was true of a 35rem i shot with one, and compared to one without.



I've heard that from others as well. I don't have one nor ever have had, but looking at it, it has holes only on the top and sides part way down. I wonder if someone were to punch a few holes the rest of the way around and the bottom if it would help more with recoil? My Competitor brake is perforated thoroughly all the way around and gets the job done. Just thinkin'!
Posted By: TChunter

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/26/2006 3:05 PM

Well guys, I talked with Jhunter last night and the barrel is his now! I am sending it out and getting his 7-08 in exchange for it. He said against his better resoning after reading this thread he still wanted it. He will get pounded in the head now, not me!!LOL

Thanks for all the help and I look forward to getting your opinions and feedback as well in the future. I am determined to do this handgun thing and I hope the 7-08 will make it a little easier to step into it.

PS I am enclosing some bandaids and a box of skin healing balm with his new barrel!!
Posted By: s4s4u

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/27/2006 12:31 AM

Quote:

I am determined to do this handgun thing and I hope the 7-08 will make it a little easier to step into it./quote]

The 7-08 is more than adequate for most critters on this continent, and you WILL find it more pleasurabe to shoot.

Good luck.
Posted By: TChunter

Re: Need some opinions/advise here - 12/29/2006 5:47 PM

WOOHOOO!!

The 7-08 barrel is here!! Im leavin work early to go shoot her!! Thanks Jhunter!

You should get yours soon. I even packed a couple bandaids in there for your hands!! They are some of my daughter's Dora the Explorer bandaids. That should help with your cuts AND your hurt feelings from the arse whoopin!
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