Me and my big mouth!

Need a little help guys, and I'll try to keep this short.
I was helping a cousin sight in his new .300 winmag, and evidently he felt like I was insulting him by trying to keep him shooting at 100 yards when he couldn't keep three in a row in a nine inch paper plate. (He was flinching, not enough recoil pad, I think. That and a god-awefull reach with too short a stock, imho.)
He has watched me work with my g2 in .22 lr, and he found it amazing that I would cuss when a flier strayed out to a three inch group at sixty yards, from a prone position resting on my hunting pack. I've only been at this a little over a month and a half, but I've probably put about 12-15 hundred rounds downrange, and am starting to get it together. I normally have groups about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches at that range/position.
Anyway, finally we came down to a challenge, neither of us can hunt at any range that we can't keep at least 5 in a row in a nine inch paper plate. (LOL, that's always been my minimum standard anyway, but he didn't know that.)
So, if I'm gonna hold him to his deal, I've got to get seriously started on a deer/antelope cartridge.
Since I want to be able to eventually get to 150 yards or better, I'm seriously looking at the 6.8 or 7-30 waters.
I'm looking at accuracy, range, and economy of the cartridges. I can see myself using the barrel for coyote hunting as well, so keeping the price of shooting reasonable is a must.
I do handload for my rifles, so that is not a concern, but since I'm not too worried about coyote pelts, I really want an all around for those three species.
Thanks for reading through all that, and for any suggestions.

i hate to sound like a broken record....but my choice would be a 30-30 ackley improved. i'd use 125-130gr sp's for 150yrd or better deer/antelope/coyote.

The 7-30 Waters is a great round. Mine always makes me look good. Deer and antelope at 150 yards is no problem, with practice and the right load, it will handle game at 250-300 yards. Kyode is right about the .30-30AI, I have heard nothing but good things about it.

Nothing wrong with the .30-30 AI, or the 7-30 Waters for that matter. For the ranges you are looking at the .30-30 Winchester would also work quite well. Problem is once a person gets proficient at 150 yards the next goal is 200 yards, then 250 yards etc.

IMHO either the 7-30 Waters or the .30-30 AI will do all you want it to do on the game you mention out to as far as you are comfortable shooting at game.

Good luck with your quest and keep us posted on the progression.

Larry

Ditto on what Larry said.

How about the 7-30 Waters Imp??
Or the 6.5 JDJ.

Vance are you reading my mind or what?

The 7x30 JDJ (aka 7-30 Waters Improved) may well be my next cartridge to play with. I received some load data and velocities from SSK and it looks like it is going to shoot a 139-140gr. Bullet about to the same velocity as I am now shooting a 120gr. bullet in my 14" 7-30 Waters.

Larry

Great minds Larry, great minds :-)

Thanks for the input guys, don't know why I hadn't considered the 30-30, but I know next to nothing about any of the improved cartridges.
Know of any good online resources for me to research them?
In the past I pretty much stayed with cartridges that I could get in just about any store, pretty much anywhere in the states for my rifles. (I.E. 30-06, .243, 30-30 win, .223, etc.) Even though pretty much everything I shot was handloads.
Maybe it's time I branched out a little.
Please, keep the info coming!

One of the great things about the 30-30 AI, and all Ackley Imp's, is that you can shoot factory in them in a pinch.

Having loaded for and shot both, I would go with the 7-30 Waters over the 6.8. HOWEVER, I would go with the 30-30AI over the 7-30. And yes master "Pooh-Bah" KYODE, the 30-30 AI is my next project.

There is quite a bit of information on some of these cartridges. You can do a search right here on HandgunHunt and should be able to come up with hours of reading. There are other sites as well that will have the info you are looking for.

The .30-30 Ackley Improved is basically a .30-30 Winchester that gets fireformed in a .30-30 Ackley Improved Chamber. Upon firing the .30-30 Winchester Cartridge in a .30-30 Ackley Improved Chamber the pressures of the cartridge firing expand and blow out the cartridge case to match the dimensions of the Ackley Improved chamber. You can go to a couple different sites on the net and see actual cartridge drawings with dimension to see how much difference there is. The .30-30 Ackley Improved has straighter walls on the body of the cartridge case, the shoulder is moved forward and given a sharper 40 degree angle.

There is an increase in internal powder capacity, but of even more importance to Contender Shooters is the shape of the Ackley Improved Cartridge Case. With the body of the cartridge case blown out straighter so it has less taper and the sharper 40 degree shoulder the .30-30 Ackley Improved Cartridge Case actually grips the chamber walls better during firing so due these changes there is less reward pressure (case head thrust) exerted on the Contender Frame. To some people this is a means to load the cartridge to higher pressures without exerting as much case head thrust to the Contender Frame, while to others it is an added margin of safety over using the more tapered case of the .30-30 Winchester.

An added bonus of the .30-30 Ackley Improved (or any Improved Cartridge Case for that matter) is that there is less brass flow so trimming is less frequent than with more tapered cartridges with a more sloping shoulder.

In my experience with the .30-30 Ackley Improved I have found that loading conventional .30-30 Winchester Brass and seating my bullets so they contacted the rifling to help eliminate a little brass stretching during the fireforming process my FireForm Loads were plenty accurate enough to hunt with. In fact that is what I did with them, using them for Varmint Hunting in the spring and summer.

I currently have a SST Super 14 7-30 Waters Contender Barrel that I am going to hunt with this Fall. After Deer Season I have been contemplating if I am going to send it off to SSK Industries to have it rechambered for the 7x30 JDJ (aka a 7-30 Waters Improved). I guess my thinking is I have experimented with the .30-30 Ackley Improved and it is a great cartridge, now maybe it is time for me to experiment with an Improved 7-30 Waters.

Good luck, there really is a great bunch of guys on some of these forums with a wealth of information. However BE WARNED these Contenders are SUPER ADDICTIVE.

Larry

Me too on the 30-30 ack. Mine is sighted in dead on at 300yrd's. And has killed at that range. 125 gn nosler Oh Yeah !!!!

Lars

Much appreciated guys, I'm thinking I may just have to go with the 30-30 AI. Especially if the fire forming loads are so accurate. Be handy if I get stuck without my handloads on a hunting trip.
Oh, and yeah, Larry, I've alreay found out about the "addiction" thing.
But what the hey, could be worse!
Last question,guys, barrel length. I'm thinking about another super 14", but am wondering how badly a shorter barrel will affect bullet drop.
Again, many thanks for any input!

If you want long range stay with long barrel. Once you pass 150 yards it helps to have every advantage you can get. A 30-30AI in 14 inch bull would be my choice.

Safe shooting
Doug

Agreed on the super 14!!!

Lars