new handgun hunter and the 460

As many of you know I am new to handgun hunting. I have been trying to nail down which gun to work with to make my primary hunting handgun. I have it down to my 44mag SBH and my S&W 460. I would like to hear some opinions on which one I should choose. Right now I am thinking I could load up some 45colt loads (250 cast @1100) and hunt with those out of the 460 and increase the power as my shooting improves. I like how the 460 fits my hand better as the SBH frame hits the side of my trigger finger between the first and second joint. Does anyone see any problem with doing this? The recoil from the 45 colt loads should be mild to say the least.

What are you planning to hunt and at what distances (open hardwoods/fields or thick brush/orchards)?

Deer and hogs in north east Texas woods. Shots will be less than 50 yards.

I don't have any experience with hogs but that load you described for the .45 Colt will work just fine for deer. I also have a .460 but I load up hot .460s with 200, 240 and 300gr bullets to get the maximum potential out of the gun. I've only fired one or two three shot groups of colt loads out of the gun and haven't considered doing it again, nor will I ever. Have you tried the light Hornady factory .460 loads yet? They have been extremely accurate out of my gun (~MOA) and recoil is fairly mild.

I have not tried the light loads, I reload and have tried 240, 300 and 365 grain bullets. Got any suggestions for light loads that I should try? My fear with the colt loads is the jump through the long cylinder to get to the barrel. Could I load down the 460 to shoot in the 1100-1200 fps range with the 250 class bullets?

I personally haven't. I know Jeff Quinn at Gunblast.com has loaded some cast bullets in that weight range (250-270gr) with both Trail Boss and Titegroup. Velocity with these charges was right in your desired range. The .460 is an extremely versatile cartridge. The lightest loads I would suggest in this gun are 200gr .460 loads. I load the 200gr FTX bullets and soon the 200 gr XPBs (somewhere on a UPS truck) at ~2500 fps. Trajectory and velocity with these loads is damn near unbelievable from a revolver.

The reason I don't use the colt loads out of my gun is because the one time I did, accuracy at 50 yds was approximately 14 inches. (I also have no use or desire for shooting such a light load... I bought a .460 for a reason.) Accuracy with the casull loads was about 4 or 5 inches at 50yds and with the .460 FTX loads accuracy was ~MOA (1/2 inch). I'm not sure what other guys have experienced but from my data, I've come to the conclusion that the shorter the cartridge, the worse the accuracy out of my gun.

Dang. Well that throws the versatility of the 460 out the window. The major selling point with the 460 was the ability to accurately shoot ammo of various power levels from 45 Colt cowboy to 460 blasters from the same gun. I've heard of a few magnum guns showing somewhat less accuracy when using "special" loads, but that is terrible.

Lance, hunt with whichever gun is the most comfortable to you and in which you have the most confidence. Either will be up to the task. The Colt load you suggested of a 250 cast @ 1100 will be awesome for deer, provided your gun shoots it well. Good luck.

Yes, 14 inches out of that gun at fifty yards is deplorable. I would imagine non rifled muskets would be getting about that type of accuracy. I have no idea why or how accuracy could have been so bad. It was facory ammo also, which removes the possibility of a reloading error. When I said versatile I guess I really mean't the .460 cartridge is a very versatile cartridge, being able to load everyting from very light, fast 200 gr ballistic tip type bullets up to bone crushing 400 gr solids. A usable gun for everything from chucks and coyotes to african game.

Can I load 45colts with my 460 dies? I hate to buy a set of dies for a test run.

why not load 460 brass with a little less powder and forget the colt brass? you have the .460 dies. Different trim length or other case variation of colt could affect acuracy.you have a .460 use a .460 even if it is charged light for recoil.

To my knowledge, there is no difference between the .454 Casull and .45 Colt Redding Carbide 3 die set. The .460 dies however, are longer. I am not positive but the .460 dies my have enough adjustment so that they can size, expand and seat the colt loads. The .460 case is over a half an inch longer than the .45 Colt case.

i have shot some 300gr xtps loaded (hot) bullet seated in the second canlure in 45 colt cases. that load shot really good point of impact was the same at 50 yards with the same xtp loaded in the 460 case.

as to the advice of using less powder in the 460 you must strictly follow the book, large capacity cases like the 460 can create a dangerous situation when undercharged. Have you fired any full house loads yet? Recoil is percieved differently by everyone but the 460 in an x frame is a pussy cat with only about half the felt recoil of my 475's but with alot more get up and go. The weight of the gun and the porting do an excellent job of taming the beast. I shot 260gr Nosler partitions over a max charge of H110 and with a Leupold 2.5-8 it would shoot moa at 150yds. My chrono showed 1950 fps +/- but I've recently come to suspect that it is reading slow. The recoil wasn't much more than a 44 mag super blackhawk with 300gr hardcast and a max load of powder but it was extremely accurate and with that bullet there is nothing in North America I wouldn't hunt with confidence up to and include the brown bears. I would be using the 460 as my primary hunting weapon if it hadn't been for it being too heavy and bulky for what I wanted.

Use your 460 dies and brass and just load down a little, to find a managable load for you. I have always found that an accurate shootable load is preferable to a hot load you can't put on target. Especially if you are worried about accuracy. Find a 460 load you can shoot well and work up if you find you can shoot more distance or need more power once you can hold the gun on target. The 460 is extremely versatile and I have had good results but you have to figure out what to feed yours. Mine does just fine with LCs and Casul brass, and different loads and bullet weights. You just need to find the right mix.

Try H110 49.5 grains on a 300gr XTP.

Although the 460 will shoot 3 calibers the 460 X frame is designed for the 460 round. The barrel has gain twist rifling to help control the 460.
This may hurt the other caliber's accuracy.(not an expert-just my thoughts)
Being new I would suggest a 44 or 45. I have shot and owned 6 44 mags over the last 30 years+one 454 casull.
Really for hunting pigs and deer you could get by with the 45 which is probably going to be my next gun.
Ive been rresearching the loads and expect it will fill my deer hunting needs. I am a fan of open sights and what to kep my shots as close as possible.With that said a stout 45LC load should drop a pig or a deer with no problem.
Good luck

i have shot both cast and xtp loaded in my 460 with great succes. the only reason that i shot them in the 460..they would loaded hot and my base pin kept coming out(need to upgrade to belt mountain base pin) i was really surprised how well they shot but like luv2hunt460 said didnt buy the 460 to shot 45colt load in.

if was just getting in to handgun hunting i would go with a good 44mag and wouldnt think twice about. good factory loads and also more reloading data availabe for it.

I've loaded my scoped 6" 460 S&W PC,with a Keith type 255 gr. cast SWC, WW large pistol primer, and 12.5 grains of IMR Trail Boss for a velocity of 1086 f.p.s. 10 feet from the muzzle. Recoil was negligeable, and accuracy was 1/2" at 50 yds. for 3, 5 shot groups from a sandbag rest. I can't best that with any other of my loads! The nice thing about the Trail Boss is that it fills the case, helps prevent double charging the case.

Hunt the big Bears with a fast 260 grain bullet? How much penetration and bone breaking ability will that have? Not nearly as much as a 325 grain LFN at 1350 FPS I'd wager

I don't know the 375JDJ has been doing it for a long time at the same velocities and down range the 460 and 375 JDJ really start to take the advantage with the higher velocity and as for the type of bullet there have been plenty of bears killed with both cast and jacketed bullets although the primary animals on this post were deer and hogs. The bottom line though is the 460 will take any animal on the continent cleanly, the 454 already has and this is just a casull on steroids. I did run some hardcast through mine for fun and it seems like I was getting 1800+ fps with a 300gr CP.

I would suggest buying a box or 2 of the Hornady 200 gr Factory Loads and try those, they are not all that expensive. That way you can judge the recoil and see if that is a direction you want to go. I have taken 3 deer and 3 hogs with the load from ranges of 50 to 135 yards and have had complete penetration and all were one shot kills. The load is extremely accurate. One thing to keep in mind with the 460 is that with the pressure and compensator it produces a very loud report that some people perceive as recoil. So make sure, if your not doing already to use plugs and muffs over the plugs when general shooting and then go with at least one or the other when hunting.

Just my 0.02.

The 375 JDJ's velocity is not outside the velocity envelope of the available 375 bullets. The avalable 45 caliber bullets in a 460 at top velocity are not going to penetrate well on a big bore hog with a thick grissel plate because the velovity is too high with the light wieght for caliber bullets. The bullets will be over worked and shed to much wieght too quickly and not penetrate as deeply as a heavier bullet driven at a slower velocity.

A hard cast driven past 1400 FPS will not penetrate as well as it will at 1200 to 1400 FPS, because the faster speeds over work the bullet and degrade its shape badly

I wouldn't shoot an animal with any mass with that 200 grain bullet. I don't think it'll penetrate well. WAY too light for caliber for large game IMHO. I tested some of those bullets at Casull velocities and I really don't think that Hornady intended it to be used on really large game. JMHO.

I guess the light bullet high velocity guys are counting on "Kinetic Energy" to do the job

Well I've got a news flash for you, "energy tranfer" is a myth. When a bullet hits an animal that is an inelastic collision and "Energy" is NOT CONSERVED IN INELASTIC COLLISIONS. Momentum is conserved in all collisions.


The following quotes are from here: http://mechanical-physics.suite101.com/article.cfm/understanding_physics_collision_problems

When an article in a gun rag talks about "energy dump or energy transfer",well that is a tip off that the arthur doesn't have a clue..

Not sure if you read my post regarding my penetration tests of these loads. If you didn't, I shot them into wet news print at 25 yards. Weight retention was down around 50% and penetration was only about 10 inches from what I remember. The bullet fragmented substantially upon impact and in most cases the jacket and core seperated. But... I am shooting these loads out of a 12" PC model at 2400+fps. The standard models push this load around 2200fps which is what Hornady suggests as a max velocity.

Out of my gun, these FTX loads were MOA but unfortunately, I would feel uncomfortable shooting anything larger than a whitetail standing broadside with them. I bought a bunch of 200gr XPBs and worked up a load for them that shoots sub MOA and is still up around 2350-2400 fps. These bullets performed flawlessly, retaining 99-100% every time, opening to ~0.75" and penetrated into wet news print 18" on average. These are what I'm using now. My dad is going to Alaska for 10 days in August for moose and coastal black bear. I have agreed to let him take my .460 as a primary hunting weapon only if he promised to shoot something with it. He will be using this load or the 275s as well. Great bullet.

A 360 grain hard cast at 1400 fps will penetrate 40 inches into wet news print

I'm a light bullet high velocity guy and I count on a wide, deep wound channel to do the job.

If you have ever seen a side view of ballistic gellatin when being shot into by various bullets, you can see the advantages of using a lightweight, high velocity, expanding bullet. You will see that a light, fast expanding bullet opens wider, causing not only a larger permanent wound channel, but also a larger temporary wound channel. The cast bullet, will indeed make a large temporary and permanent wound channel, but not as large as the light, fast, expanding bullet. The kinetic energy, momentum (or whatever you want to call it) generated by the moving bullet when hitting an animal is directed outward, away from the permanent wound channel, this is what causes the temporary wound channel and more tissue damage and more bleeding.

Tissue damage resulting in bleeding is what kills an animal. Ive seen deer get hit by a car at 60 miles an hour, get up clear a ditch and run into the woods. I'm sure many of us have. What deposits more energy into a deer? A 5000 pound pickup going 50 miles an hour or a 700 NE? I would be willing to bet that a 700 Nitro Express expells more energy on an animal than what we all use for hunting, yet still doesn't deposit the energy that a Silverado does. This would mean that if us "light bullet high velocity guys" we were really relying on soley Kenitic energy to kill our game, we would need something that deposited more energy on the animal than a 700NE. To my knowledge, they still don't sell Oerlikon 20mm cannons at Gander Mountain.

In the case of bullets, a light, fast, expanding bullet will not penetrate as deep as a slower, heavy cast bullet. But since I'm only hunting whitetail and blackbear, I dont need anymore than 15 inches of penetration. I'll use the light fast bullet designed for this application and speed. Because the animals I shoot are no wider than 15 inches at the chest, I dont have to worry about getting 45" of penetration achieved with a cast bullet. I'll use the bullet that causes the most possible damage to the amimals I hunt.

jwp475, apparently the animals you hunt are over 40" inches wide at the vitals, which is why you are using a slow, heavy cast bullet that will penetrate much deeper than a fast, light expanding bullet. If all you were shooting were animals that were no more than 12 or 15 inches wide at the vitals, it clearly would not matter in the least that the bullet penetrated 45 inches.

My statement was in response to jamautry's commentary about the 200 grain Hornady load. I think the .460 would be hell on wheels with a 400 grain bullet.

I appologize Whitworth. I was talking about the Hornady 200gr FTX load. I was agreeing with you in saying that those 200gr FTX bullets do not hold up and wouldn't penetrate very deep. Thats what I was talking about with my penetration testing. However I haven't shot a hog with thses loads so I can not honestly say whether it would do a good job or not. jamautry has so I would say they are a marginal bullet for that application.

Not a problem at all! I agree a lighter, expanding bullet is indeed the ticket for deer. Penetration isn't so critical on them. Hogs are deceptively densely built animals. When you start hunting large boars with thick gristle plates, penetration is at a premium. They will quickly test the construction of your bullet. I am of the belief that large-bore handguns don't really need expanding bullets by virtue of the fact that they are starting out at a large diameter. I tend to lean more towards penetration as the perfect shot rarely presents itself, and hogs are perpetual motion machines, never stopping to pose like deer. Never know when you need to take that Texas heartshot on a departing pig!

Have you experimented with heavy bullets yet? I understand that gain-twist will stabilize them well.

Removed a 3 to 4 inches diameter section of lung tissue with a wide flat point hard cast at 1380 FPS





The difference is that I can put a hole through the vitails from any angle and exit the chest of a north bound animal with a shot from the south end


An exit in the rib cage of a 6X7 bull Elk with a 440 grain flat point hard cast at 950 FPS





Judging from my experience of shooting both (in my younger days I was a light bullet high velocity guy) the heavier wide flat point hard cast bullets are supirior to the faster lighter weights and are very effective in ALL circumstances and are not limitted to certain shot angles

Another Deer that fell to a heavy wide flat point hard cast bullet




When the game increases in size their is no need to change loads you are good to go

Whitworth, as a matter of fact I just bought 200 CP 360gr bullets to experiment with. Hopefully they will get here today or tomorow. I'll definately get back to you and let you know how they worked.

jwp475, so far, I have had very good results using the Barnes 200gr XPB in terms of both accuracy and penetration. Although I have not used this bullet to take an animal, I have used and have seen many others use this bullet as well as various other lighter, jacketed bullets out of handguns, rifles and muzzelloaders with great success. I have also seen fellow hunters use cast bullets with great success as well. In my opinion, when hunting whitatails and black bear (the only legally taken big game species living where I hunt) and other lighter, think skinned game, a light, expanding bullet that penetrates more than enough to kill the animal quickly, is flat shooting and is very accurate is the best choice. When I go after animals that are extremely wide and/or dense, and penetration is my biggest concern, of course I would choose a slow, heavy solid, such as a CP 360gr GC.

Clearly both types of bullets will kill animals. Light, fast, flat shooting bullets are best for me and the game I hunt.

Good Hunting.

To quote Ross Seyfried "handgun bullets and the word flat shooting do not belong in the same sentence"

I agree with Mr. Seyfried.

Bore diameter and bullet weight are constants that do not change as does velocity along the bullets flight path

What makes people think that a wide flat point hard cast bullet does not kill quickly?

Not too sure why someone would think that a wide flat point hardcast bullet does not kill quickly. Anything passed through the heart and lungs of a living creature will kill it. Especially a wide projectile fired from a gun.

You and Ross Seyfried can think whatever you want. When Smith & Wesson invented the X-Frame and shortly after the .460 S&W cartridge, "handgun bullets" and "flat shooting" were put into the same sentence. If you and Ross Seyfried disagree with this concept, I would suggest not purchasing a .460 S&W magnum. You could also try calling S&W, Hornady and CORBON to tell them that you and Ross Seyfried don't think that handgun bullets and flat shooting go together and that they should stop making the gun and the flat shooting ammo.

Cast bullets have there pros and cons. Light, jacketed expanding bullets too have their pros and cons. Light expanding bullets are the best possible option for me when hunting whitetail and black bear. If and when I go hunting for much larger, thick skinned game, I will be loading heavy cast bullets.

Let's a 180 grain AccuBond with a BC of .507 shot at 3300 FPS from a 300 RUM would qualify as flat shooting.
So what is the BC of your light weight 45 Cal bullets at 2400 FPS? That is not in the same category as the above.

Sight correction to make up for trajectory is the easy part of long range shooting

If you want flat shooting from a handgun the try an encore chambered for a rifle cartridge with a high BC bullet

A 250 grain with a BC of .587 SMK out of my 338 Lapua at 3197 FPS out of the 30 inches barrel will shoot flatter to 1,000 yards than will the 300 grain SMK with a BC of .768 at 2791 FPS, but the 300 grain SMK will exibit and 1/2 of the wind drift and retain more velocity at 1K. Trajectery with either rifle or handgun is the easy part

I'm sorry. I thought this discussion was comparing light jacketed and heavy cast .45 caliber bullets out of handguns. I didn't know we were also talking about high powered rifles.

You are correct. A 180gr Accubond at 3300fps does have a much flatter trajectory than a 200 gr Barnes XPB at 2400 fps. Some of us, including myself, like to use pistols to hunt. I like ones that shoot flat and accurately. I'm sorry if you disagree.

Try some 500 yard or farther shooting with both the light weights and the slow heavy weights and it should soon be apparent which one is best out of the revolvers.

Hint it will not be the light weight

You're kidding. Right?

Nope

I don't know about the 460 but in the 44mag jwp475 is right.I have only played out to 200yards though.But from my experience a 320gr cast over 20.5gr of H110 is easier to get on target farther than a 200gr XTP over 29gr of H110 or a 250gr nosler over 23,24,and25gr of H110.Doesn't make sense but it works.

Seeing is believing. The farther out you go the greater the edge of the heaver bullets. It is the same with rifles as well as revolvers.

Science test!! Go buy a sleeve of golf balls (GB), pingpong balls (PPB) and a sling shot.

The PPB and GB are roughly the same size but their weights are substantially different.

Shoot them from a slingshot...the PPB will start out much faster and fly rather flat initially but looses speed quickly since it does not have the mass to carry against the air. Do this in a cross wind and it will also drift terribly.

The GB will start slower since it had more initial mass the accelerate but go further (drop less at longer range) since it has the mass to push through the air. Do this also in a cross wind and it will drift much less than the PPB.

Wow, quit the thread drift we have going on. The orginal question was about sticking with a 460 or trying a 45 colt Blackhawk. The orginal poster was concerned with recoil thus my recommendation of the light loads.

As for the raging debate I have used all manner of sixguns (357 max, 41 mag, 44 mag, 45 colt, 45 win mag, 454 casull, 460 S&W, and 500 S&W) to kill hogs with all manner of loads from light for caliber to heavy and have anchored them all with one shot, the one exception was the 45 win mag FMJ load it punched completely through and the hog ran about 300 yards in heavy brush finally tracked it down and the second shot did it in). I personnaly believe the 460 S&W was designed from the ground up for high velocity (relatively speaking) thus I use it that way; I have the long barreled PC version with a scope. I have had success with the Hornady load I also personnaly believe the Barnes 200 gr bullet is better but for just a recoil comparison to answer the original poster's question why spend the extra money? In the end all the ballistics tests are just a test, to see how a bullet performs on a particular animal you need to use it on that animal, which I have and as I stated I have taken 3 hogs (weights ranged from 80 lbs to 300 lbs) and three deer all with complete penetration (pictures of a couple of those hogs are in the bragging board). So while we can debate the statstically validity of three animals fact is in my gun with me shooting the load is 100% and that is as good as it gets.

Wow...you are right...I was only watching for nastiness. Unless anyone has something to add that pertains to the original post...let this one go.

I suppose because I've never considered shooting an animal with a .45 caliber bullet out of a revolver at 500 yards, 400 yards, even 300 yards, I've never considered what the bullet was doing beyond 200 yards. Dan, I appreciate the "Science test" lesson but with all due respect, I've understood basic ballistics since I was 6 years old.

The conversation I started out having with jwp was regarding .45 cal bullets (both light jacketed and heavy cast) and how they worked upon impact, killing an animal. I was not talking about rifles, ballistic coefficients, long range shooting, wind doping, etc. Those diehard cast bullet lovers, please, continue to use what works for you. I will continue to use what works for me. I don't bitch, piss and moan and give you every reason in the world why cast bullets suck and jacketed is all you should use because that would not only be immature and arrogant but just dead wrong . As I said before, both have their niches and I feel both should be used for certain applications. I use light jacketed bullets because for the ranges I hunt, and the animals I pursue, they are flatter shooting, accurate, very lethal and are no more affected by the wind than a 335 gr cast bullet at 1200 fps. I realize that at 500 yards, a big heavy cast bullet at 1200 fps is less affected by wind than a light jacketed bullet. I also realize that the drop of the same bullet and velocity at 500 yards is about 35 feet (according to JBM Trajectory tables), roughly three times as much as a 200gr XPB at 2400fps. STill, these values do not matter to me because I do not shoot deer or anyother big game animal at more than 200 yards with a revolver. Thats just me though. Others may feel confident shooting a revolver at an animal at 500 yards, but not me.

This thread's original topic was regarding the .460 S&W magnum. If we want to start a thread regarding long range rifle shooting, I would love to join in. This is not the spot for it. And out of respect for lance, lets stick to the topic. I would bet a dollar that he does not care which bullet out of his .460 will shoot better at 500 yards.

The added barrel time of the heavy bullet will allow more barrel rise before the bullets exits the barrel and not need as much sight correction as the ballistics program indicates. Case in point, shooting at an Antelope sillehoute at 500 yards with a 5" barreled 454 shooting 260 grain jacketed bullets at 1800 + FPS neede more elevation correct than did my 475 shooting a 420 grain LFN at 1380 FPS in order to be on target. My longest kill on a game animal is 218 yards shooting a 325 grain LFN at 1400 FPS. The heavy weights work and work well.

To the opening post get the 45 Colt with heavy hard cast IMHO and experience

Are we done now?