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Hard-cast Velocity #17786 12/23/2006 12:40 AM
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454Casull Offline OP
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I'm an admitted speed freak! I tend to load rounds as hot as I can within saftey and accuracy parameters. My current 454 load is 31gr of H110 under a 335gr cast core bullet (F/A gun). The accuracy is okay but I think it is workable. My question however is this...Can you drive a hard cast bullet too fast?

Re: Hard-cast Velocity [Re: 454Casull] #17787 12/23/2006 1:10 AM
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Vance in AK. Offline
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The answer is probably... But I doubt that you are
I have shot them out of my .444 Contender at over 2100 fps with no problems.


Vance in AK.

Matthew 6:33
"But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."
Re: Hard-cast Velocity [Re: 454Casull] #17788 12/23/2006 3:41 AM
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Gascheck Offline
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Shooting very hard cast slugs is interesting. I've had very hard cast slug cause terrible leading and poor accuracy in one of my 44 mags with a light 1000 fps load. It was problably because I wasn't driving the slug fast enough to cause bullet base upset to seal the bore. When I took the velocity up to 1250 fps the leading disappeared and accuracy was quite good. I don't have a bullet hardness tester but they seem like they may offer some guide as to potential velocity a given slug can perform best at. Gas check bullets also help and are common on LBT type hard cast slugs.

Re: Hard-cast Velocity [Re: 454Casull] #17789 12/23/2006 3:31 PM
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As far as CB's go I have come to the conclusion that 90% of the time you cannot buy a properly sized bullet to fit said gun. I have gone to cast in the majority of my rifles and pistols. I prefer to cast for 30 caliber and up but have a Swede 96 that is an exception and have yet to get time to play with it.
I have experianced what was mentioned above only on a little different note on leading. I shot some GC type bullets at a fairly good speed but they caused horrible leading. I had some fire forming of cases to do with the same gun. I shot a few and thought what the heck may as well shoot them over the chrono beings it is up and on. They were running right at 300fps faster than the GC bullet and a plain base to boot, same weight and same lube. The only difference being was they were .003 larger than the GC bullet.
That barrel may have had a large spot in it some where and let the gases creep past the check? Where as the larger plain base may have upset enough to seal better.
I was doing some reading the other day and have read this before from others. It seems most good accuracy with most CB's is had any where from 1500-1700 fps. Yes your milage may vary here. This reference was from several old fellows back in the 40's-60's. Before we became so magnumized. The newer calibers and cases tend to like to run at some what higher pressures, so maybe, a tad larger bullet may be in order?

A to driving a CB to fast. That is a million dollar question I don't think has really been answered yet. Which fails first, the alloy or the lube? I have seen this debate get highly intense.
I don't crowd the upper limits of any of my magnums. I do push them well beyond their siblings of smaller status. I know one gent that has a dandy Black Hawk. It has never been feed much more than squib loads to 44 special diet. It is a fair shooter with these. I always get on him why such a heavy gun for such a light load, should have bought the special to begin with. I have snuck a few full tilt boogy 300 grain loads in on it. It will plain stack them at 50M and will hold 2" all day at 100M. My friend attributes that to having not been shot with 44 mag loads............ thus the frame is tighter .
Jeff

Re: Hard-cast Velocity [Re: jsh] #17790 12/24/2006 3:11 AM
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grimel Offline
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Why? Because Ruger is yet to make a 44spl on the smaller BH frame.

As to it shooting well, you'd have a hard time shooting it enought to damage the frame, it just LIKES to go fast. I had a Colt that shot 44 spl very well. Factory 44mag better. My cast 250gr hunting load still better. And some hot 270 JSP's even better. The heavier the bullet and the faster it went the better the gun shot.

Like a 'tard, I sold it.

Re: Hard-cast Velocity [Re: grimel] #17791 12/24/2006 2:51 PM
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454Casull Offline OP
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Thanks guys! I understand the leading stuff but I guess what I really should have asked is in regards to performance on game. Is it possible to be too fast? I ask based upon too few personal experiences where I know I thumped the animal but could not find any evidence of a hit. No hair, no tissue, no spatter etc. at POI; and little blood trail even after a few hundred yards. I know....I didn't hit where I thought I did; maybe but not always. Big none expanding bullets plow through game which is truely what we want in a handgun bullet but is a touch slower better when it comes to thin skinned animals such as whitetails?

Re: Hard-cast Velocity [Re: 454Casull] #17792 12/24/2006 3:34 PM
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Vance in AK. Offline
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If you drive the same bullet slower you'll still have the same size hole.... It just might not come out the other side(bad thing. Exit wound = more blood). Maybe on whitetails you should consider an expanding bullet. If you use hardcast on light or thin-skinned animals, go for solid bone like the front shoulders to break the animal down.


Vance in AK.

Matthew 6:33
"But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."
Re: Hard-cast Velocity [Re: Vance in AK.] #17793 12/24/2006 5:33 PM
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You can drive them too fast, but its hard to do. Here is a (now) funny story I'll relay. In my very earliest days of reloading, many, many moons (30yrs) ago, I used to load Elmer's 22gr 2400 over a (then) heavy 255 LSWC bullet with excellent accuracy in my original 6 1/2" M29. I ran out of them and substituted Hornady 240 SWAGED SWC under the same load. recoil increased with each round fired and after the first cylinder full, I checked the barrel and the lands and grooves were almost gone; ie filled with lead! I had a fix for that, I'd just load a cylinder of jacketed bullets and clean the barrel. I am so glad the 240 Hornadys lead were extremely soft. The first shot was a wrist-twister! It was fierce! I learned my lesson x2-never shoot soft bullets fast and never clean a heavy leaded barrel with a jacketed bullet! The barrel was clean though! No damage was done and I still shoot this 6 1/2" .44 Smith today! The Hornady bullet at .44 Special velocities is very accurate and does not lead, my 285 Hard cast SWC are very fast (1450FPS) from my 10" TC and don't lead at all. My SW 500 shoots the 440LSWC to 1725FPS with no ill effects and is extremely accurate. On the other hand, the referenced 240 Hornady and 2400 load used to key-hole from my 10" TC. It was obviously deforming the bullet enough to destabilize it!


BullElk Hunter (Gerry)HHI #2933
And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, whom shall I send and who will go for us? And I said: Here am I, send me!(Is. 6:8)

Re: Hard-cast Velocity [Re: 454Casull] #17794 12/24/2006 7:37 PM
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What you've experienced is my only complaint with cast bullets. Sometimes there isn't much blood because the exit is a smooth caliber hole. I've shot several animals with a hard cast and while the penetration is excellent some just don't bleed much. I think the key is to bust some bones preferably the shoulder. You'll still get a caliber exit hole but there will be a lot more internal damage and broken shoulders/legs will slow them down a bit too. For deer & hogs use a jacketed hollow point like the Nosler partition HG (44's & 45's) and you'll be a lot happier with the effect on game.


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