Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: PBR DRIVER]
#108039
05/05/2012 6:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
Distinguished Expert
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.... When used properly the .41 as the lowly .25-35 will and can work if it applied properly! Yeah, and the .25 Colt will work for moose. http://www.handgunhunt.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/107519/page/1#Post107519
My point is, kind of like beating a dead horse, these discussions are endless.
Sooo... my 2 cents, having three revolver kills on big mature bull elk, (plus multiple bulls and cow elk with T/C pistols and five mature bulls with ML's and one Pope and Young bull with my bow; not to mention my rifle elk and my guiding experience on elk); is that I would feel I could get it done with a .41 if I absolutely had to, but I would feel extremely uncomfortable and take only the PERFECT shot for that gun/cartridge combo; which according to the elk hunt kill stats, may not ever happen in ten years of elk hunting. And IF I was going on an expensive elk hunt, and paying an outfitter, and spending a bunch of money to do it, etc. etc., and only owned a .41, then I would consider the BEST part of the money I spent on the hunt would be for a new bigger badder revolver in the .454 Casull range or BIGGER. Plus of course, the bunch of ammo I bought at the same time to become PROFICIENT with it from field shooting positions.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#108052
05/06/2012 1:51 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,331
TCTex.
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Wow the last post was from Tig over 3 years ago…
Well put Mr. Gregg!!!!! The problem with digging up old threads is the original origins of the question may be lost, or in this cases, the tread starter hasn’t posted in years… … …
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb Benjamin Franklin
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: TCTex.]
#108065
05/06/2012 1:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
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I have seen Moose dropped with a 41 mag, properly loaded and applied it will work in spades on Elk
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: jwp475]
#108151
05/07/2012 4:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
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... properly loaded and applied it will work in spades on Elk
That has been established, no argument here; it will work in Colorado also.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#108162
05/07/2012 7:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,655
wapitirod
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yep but it's not what you would call and ideal elk cartridge which is why I converted my step dad's 41 to 45LC and I have it stuffed with 335gr WFNGC's for him. I knew a guy that emptied his rifle at a running bull and the last shot caught him low in the gut but the bull came to a stop and he was able to get within roughly 50yds and drop it with one shot from a MKI but I don't think I'd play that game. If your going to hunt an animal you should have enough respect to use enough or more than enough gun just in case things don't go as scripted which I don't know about these hunts you pay through your ass for but on diy public land hunts hunting pressured animals things seldom work out like you'd like them too.
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. John Wayne-The Shootist
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: wapitirod]
#108166
05/07/2012 8:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
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I'm not sure why people consider a properly loaded 41 mag to be not enough gun for an Elk.
anyone that chooses to hunt Elk with a revolver or revolver cartridge accepts the range and sight limitations of the weapon. A wide meplat 230 grain hardcast will shoot completely through and Elk (exit)
I would not feel underguned with a properly loaded 41 mag
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: jwp475]
#108179
05/07/2012 2:22 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 70
Wayland137
journeyman
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I agree with jwp475, If you know what you can do, and aren't "pushing the limits" (i.e. being an irresponsible hunter) you could take an elk with that calibre and a very good bullet - however the qustion he asks is telling too - he isn't sure and that tells me he either needs to get confident or choose a different weapon. I would say he should prepare for both and get some range time in along with researching bullets AND possibly look at a second weapon if the other two don't boost his confidence - and that doesn' mean blind arrogance either. Either way, Im glad he asked instead of assuming he could take any animal with any calibre.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Wayland137]
#108280
05/08/2012 2:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818
sixshot
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This is one of those discussions that has a lot of opinions for & against. But many keep going back to the old argument about seeing elk run off from being hit with a 300 Win mag so how can a handgun get it done. Its simple, energy figures don't mean a whole lot in the real world of hunting. You need bullet placement & you need penetration, that usually means a good cast bullet, expansion is nice but not necessary if you are using a 41 maggie or bigger. Saying a 44 will work & a 41 is too small is a strange statement. I don't believe a 210-215 gr slug is the answer because I don't think either will give you the needed penetration to exit on an elk, they are very tough. I've mentioned before that I think they are tougher than moose. I've taken 2 elk with my 41 maggie's, both were one shot kills. I used a 230 gr Keith on one, got about 4 feet of penetration on that one & used a 250 gr LBT on the other, broke both front shoulders & also exited. Stood next to a friend a few years ago & watched him drop a nice bull moose with one shot using a 41 maggie & one of my 230 gr cast slugs. The bull was facing us straight on, got about 4 feet of penetraton on him, although we could not find the slug, but it was well past the diaphram. The slug went through the brisket, into the chest cavity, took out one lung & the top of the heart, went back into the guts somewhere. He went about 30 yds & dropped, probably was down & out in 6-7 seconds. Don't make the mistake of pushing for every bit of velocity you can squeeze out of a sixgun, you have to work your loads up where you can manage the recoil and get good accuracy. 1100 fps with good accuracy is much better than 1300-1400 fps & flinching. My 250 gr LBT was doing about 1150 fps on my last elk, she never took a single step, I think the distance was 74 yds. A bigger caliber will "not" make up for a bad hit.
Dick
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: sixshot]
#108282
05/08/2012 3:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,105
Russell
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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It's not the gun, but the man behind it.
Sheriff Russell Cottle, Ret. USMC; 1967-1970; Vietnam-'68-'69
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Russell]
#108284
05/08/2012 3:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: sixshot]
#108285
05/08/2012 3:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
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This is one of those discussions that has a lot of opinions for & against. But many keep going back to the old argument about seeing elk run off from being hit with a 300 Win mag so how can a handgun get it done. Its simple, energy figures don't mean a whole lot in the real world of hunting. You need bullet placement & you need penetration, that usually means a good cast bullet, expansion is nice but not necessary if you are using a 41 maggie or bigger. Saying a 44 will work & a 41 is too small is a strange statement. I don't believe a 210-215 gr slug is the answer because I don't think either will give you the needed penetration to exit on an elk, they are very tough. I've mentioned before that I think they are tougher than moose. I've taken 2 elk with my 41 maggie's, both were one shot kills. I used a 230 gr Keith on one, got about 4 feet of penetration on that one & used a 250 gr LBT on the other, broke both front shoulders & also exited. Stood next to a friend a few years ago & watched him drop a nice bull moose with one shot using a 41 maggie & one of my 230 gr cast slugs. The bull was facing us straight on, got about 4 feet of penetraton on him, although we could not find the slug, but it was well past the diaphram. The slug went through the brisket, into the chest cavity, took out one lung & the top of the heart, went back into the guts somewhere. He went about 30 yds & dropped, probably was down & out in 6-7 seconds. Don't make the mistake of pushing for every bit of velocity you can squeeze out of a sixgun, you have to work your loads up where you can manage the recoil and get good accuracy. 1100 fps with good accuracy is much better than 1300-1400 fps & flinching. My 250 gr LBT was doing about 1150 fps on my last elk, she never took a single step, I think the distance was 74 yds. A bigger caliber will "not" make up for a bad hit.
Dick Spot on!!!!!!!
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: jwp475]
#108297
05/08/2012 4:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
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[quote=sixshot]This is one of those discussions that has a lot of opinions for & against. But many keep going back to the old argument about seeing elk run off from being hit with a 300 Win mag so how can a handgun get it done. Its simple, energy figures don't mean a whole lot in the real world of hunting. You need bullet placement & you need penetration, that usually means a good cast bullet, expansion is nice but not necessary if you are using a 41 maggie or bigger. Saying a 44 will work & a 41 is too small is a strange statement. I don't believe a 210-215 gr slug is the answer because I don't think either will give you the needed penetration to exit on an elk, they are very tough. I've mentioned before that I think they are tougher than moose. I've taken 2 elk with my 41 maggie's, both were one shot kills. I used a 230 gr Keith on one, got about 4 feet of penetration on that one & used a 250 gr LBT on the other, broke both front shoulders & also exited. Stood next to a friend a few years ago & watched him drop a nice bull moose with one shot using a 41 maggie & one of my 230 gr cast slugs. The bull was facing us straight on, got about 4 feet of penetraton on him, although we could not find the slug, but it was well past the diaphram. The slug went through the brisket, into the chest cavity, took out one lung & the top of the heart, went back into the guts somewhere. He went about 30 yds & dropped, probably was down & out in 6-7 seconds. Don't make the mistake of pushing for every bit of velocity you can squeeze out of a sixgun, you have to work your loads up where you can manage the recoil and get good accuracy. 1100 fps with good accuracy is much better than 1300-1400 fps & flinching. My 250 gr LBT was doing about 1150 fps on my last elk, she never took a single step, I think the distance was 74 yds. A bigger caliber will "not" make up for a bad hit.
Dick one of the best posts to ever exist! couldn't agree more.
Last edited by tradmark; 05/08/2012 5:00 PM.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: sixshot]
#108298
05/08/2012 4:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,608
s4s4u
Shootist
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Shootist
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Saying a 44 will work & a 41 is too small is a strange statement. Exactly! What is .019" after all?
Rod, too.
Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: sixshot]
#108447
05/10/2012 4:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
Distinguished Expert
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This is one of those discussions that has a lot of opinions for & against. But many keep going back to the old argument about seeing elk run off from being hit with a 300 Win mag so how can a handgun get it done. Its simple, energy figures don't mean a whole lot in the real world of hunting. You need bullet placement & you need penetration, that usually means a good cast bullet, expansion is nice but not necessary if you are using a 41 maggie or bigger. Saying a 44 will work & a 41 is too small is a strange statement. I don't believe a 210-215 gr slug is the answer because I don't think either will give you the needed penetration to exit on an elk, they are very tough. I've mentioned before that I think they are tougher than moose. I've taken 2 elk with my 41 maggie's, both were one shot kills. I used a 230 gr Keith on one, got about 4 feet of penetration on that one & used a 250 gr LBT on the other, broke both front shoulders & also exited. Stood next to a friend a few years ago & watched him drop a nice bull moose with one shot using a 41 maggie & one of my 230 gr cast slugs. The bull was facing us straight on, got about 4 feet of penetraton on him, although we could not find the slug, but it was well past the diaphram. The slug went through the brisket, into the chest cavity, took out one lung & the top of the heart, went back into the guts somewhere. He went about 30 yds & dropped, probably was down & out in 6-7 seconds. Don't make the mistake of pushing for every bit of velocity you can squeeze out of a sixgun, you have to work your loads up where you can manage the recoil and get good accuracy. 1100 fps with good accuracy is much better than 1300-1400 fps & flinching. My 250 gr LBT was doing about 1150 fps on my last elk, she never took a single step, I think the distance was 74 yds. A bigger caliber will "not" make up for a bad hit.
Dick Agreed. And of course "A bigger caliber will "not" make up for a bad hit." Not speaking for the others; but I never said that. What I DID say, (if you all did not understand the MEANING of what I said) was: that a bigger caliber will give you an advantage of range and shot angles, and still be within that realm of respect for the animal, than a smaller caliber as the .41. And that will INCREASE your chances of a successful bull elk hunt. Also I am specifically talking about mature bull elk, which can be up to a third bigger than a cow elk. And just for argument's sake; that bigger caliber will also be a definate advantage on a MARGINAL shot; as we have all made those at least once, eh?
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#108458
05/10/2012 10:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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Why will the bigger caliber give you a range and angle advantage? Not trying to be argumentative, but I have seen .41 mag loads tested that handily out-penetrated bigger calibers, so the angle issue is entirely dependent upon the bullet used and load.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: taurus41]
#108472
05/10/2012 1:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
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Whit,the heavier properly shaped slug would have superior penetration due to physics; ie. mass and momentum. Are you saying that bone-smashing power is not greater with the bigger slug? You say "the angle issue is entirely dependent upon the bullet used and load." Well that of course goes without saying.
Are you talking same-type of bullets in each? I would like to read that info if you can share the source.
Here all along, Whit, I thought you were a "big-bore" fan.
If what you say is right, why is bigger better?
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#108473
05/10/2012 2:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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Obviously the lighter bullets won't have quite the bone-breaking potential of let's say a 500 grain slug. I am a big-bore fan, but heavy slugs, with a good nose profile in .41 Mag will often penetrate with the big boys. In fact, I have seen on numerous occasions where they consistently out penetrate the .429 Magnum in testing. The weight to caliber is relative. Some guys run sub-400 grain bullets in their .50 cals, which despite weight will not likely out penetrate the 265 grain bullets we have tested in .41 Magnum. Depends on how you load. I don't consider 350s in a .475 or .500 to be heavy for caliber, yet lots of guys do and wouldn't hesitate to use such a load on big game. In that case, a .41 Mag loaded let's say with 265, may penetrate deeper. There are lots of factors involved, but because the bullet has a smaller diameter doesn't mean it won't penetrate deeply. Now, if you load it light with an expanding bullet, you may not see the deep penetration I am talking about. Your mileage may vary.
Why do I prefer bigger calibers? It's simple; They make a bigger wound channel in most instances. I like big holes, but to assume that a smaller diameter bullet won't penetrate deeply in an animal is a mistake IMO. Of course, I tend to load heavy for caliber bullets with large meplats and have found no issues really with penetration in any of the calibers I use for the above mentioned reasons. But you are right that when extreme penetration is required, I do prefer really big and really heavy, but don't sell the .41 Maggie short when loaded properly as it will get the job done in spades. Again, your mileage may vary.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Whitworth]
#108483
05/10/2012 3:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,655
wapitirod
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The smaller bullet is penetrating with the larger bullets because it has a smaller frontal surface area to resist penetration the larger bullet is going as deep or deeper because of kinetic energy from it's increased weight. Like Whit said though there are alot of variables and therefore nothing can be set in cement. The smaller bullet is more susceptible to deflection or being stopped once it enters the animal. I'm pretty much against light for caliber bullets. I have some 355 HC's I load for my 475's but only because they are accurate, fast and fun to shoot, but if I'm hunting with them I use 400gr XTP's and if I feel I ever "need" a hard cast I have 425's loaded. The 41 I rechambered wasn't because i didn't think it could kill an elk, I did it because I knew anything a 41 could do a 45LC could do better.
I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. John Wayne-The Shootist
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: wapitirod]
#108486
05/10/2012 4:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,037
wtroper
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I am a 41 mag fan. My most accurate revolver is a 41. I really enjoy shooting them. The load that I use most is a 210 XTP @ about 1500 fps. I have used it on numerous animals (mostly deer sized exotics -- Sika, Fallow, Axis). It seldom provides an exit for me if the target is 100 yds or more.
I have also witnessed another shooter hunting an oryx --- that soaked up 5 hard cast 41s over a couple of hours before finally expiring. Admitedly, not all of those hits were where you would like them, but any hit is better than no hit on a wounded animal.
I saw my cousin shoot a Sika (broadside at about 80 yds) with a FA 41 mag shooting my load. The hit was perfectly behind the shoulder. The deer showed that he was hit, but then ran into the brush headed west. Four of us searched for him. Not one drop of blood was found. The shooter began to walk in semi-circles. Eventually, the deer was found about 125 yds east of where he was hit. The only blood found was within the last 25 yds of the deer.
I have also had them drop where they stood when hit with that load. But it does not always happen.
Based upon my personal experience, if I am going to hunt with a revolver today, I would like a bigger one in spite of my affection for the 41s. My 41s are my "fun guns." If I use a 41, I am more careful of my placement.
It's more important where you hit 'em, than what you hit 'em with.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: wtroper]
#108496
05/10/2012 7:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818
sixshot
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I don't think anyone is actually badmouthing the 41 maggie, those who have used it very much knows very well that it doesn't take a back seat to some of the bigger calibers, that is with correct bullets, 250-265 gr, etc. Some don't have any experience with a 41 yet they down play what it can do. I've used it a great deal on big game & although I know in my head that a bigger caliber should work better I've never actually seen it work that way in the field. I've taken a couple of cow elk that were extremely large & my friends bull moose would certainly be bigger than a large bull elk. While its never a disadvantage to use a bigger caliber it can work against the shooter if he over guns himself & starts to lose accuracy. Heavy bullets don't need maximum velocity to work, the large mass gets the job done if the shooter makes correct hits & that will never change. Back in the days before most of us had access to chronographs I thought my loads were going faster than they actually were. Along the way what I discovered was, my loads at 1100-1200 fps were passing through everything I shot, deer, elk, bears, antelope, lion, moose & African game & everything in between. So a little light came on in my head, if 1100-1200 fps is working & my 41 maggies are killing everything in sight.......why do I need more horsepower, answer is, I don't, what I need is accuracy every time, without fail. Give me any angle & I'll hit the vitals. Will a 250 gr 44 slug out perform a 250 gr 41 slug, of course not. We can discuss "marginal" but .019" probably fits that discription quite well.
Dick
Last edited by sixshot; 05/10/2012 9:30 PM.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: sixshot]
#108497
05/10/2012 7:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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And that was my point......loaded correctly and it isn't giving up much of anything. Thanks for the thoughtful and informative post.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Whitworth]
#108500
05/10/2012 8:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
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my point has always been that it's load dependent. i have loads that i shoot that are wholly inapproprate for raking shots on elk out of my 454, same way i wouldn't use a hornady 325 on certain shots out of my 475, but there are loads that are appropriate in the .41 and there's 500 smith loads i wouldn't wanna use. once you get the 41 and above imho its 99% about the bullet but it's always 100% about accuracy and if someone shoots it better than a larger caliber, use the .41
Last edited by tradmark; 05/10/2012 8:29 PM.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: tradmark]
#108501
05/10/2012 8:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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my point has always been that it's load dependent. i have loads that i shoot that are wholly inapproprate for raking shots on elk out of my 454, same way i wouldn't use a hornady 325 on certain shots out of my 475, but there are loads that are appropriate in the .41 and there's 500 smith loads i wouldn't wanna use. once you get the 41 and above imho its 99% about the bullet but it's always 100% about accuracy and if someone shoots it better than a larger caliber, use the .41 Very well said!
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: sixshot]
#108547
05/11/2012 1:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
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I don't think anyone is actually badmouthing the 41 maggie, those who have used it very much knows very well that it doesn't take a back seat to some of the bigger calibers, that is with correct bullets, 250-265 gr, etc. Some don't have any experience with a 41 yet they down play what it can do. I've used it a great deal on big game & although I know in my head that a bigger caliber should work better I've never actually seen it work that way in the field. I've taken a couple of cow elk that were extremely large & my friends bull moose would certainly be bigger than a large bull elk. While its never a disadvantage to use a bigger caliber it can work against the shooter if he over guns himself & starts to lose accuracy. Heavy bullets don't need maximum velocity to work, the large mass gets the job done if the shooter makes correct hits & that will never change. Back in the days before most of us had access to chronographs I thought my loads were going faster than they actually were. Along the way what I discovered was, my loads at 1100-1200 fps were passing through everything I shot, deer, elk, bears, antelope, lion, moose & African game & everything in between. So a little light came on in my head, if 1100-1200 fps is working & my 41 maggies are killing everything in sight.......why do I need more horsepower, answer is, I don't, what I need is accuracy every time, without fail. Give me any angle & I'll hit the vitals. Will a 250 gr 44 slug out perform a 250 gr 41 slug, of course not. We can discuss "marginal" but .019" probably fits that discription quite well.
Dick Again Dick is spot on!!!! The 41 Mag loaded with a proper bullet is not marginal for Elk, put the bullet in the correct location and game over. I have seen this done on multiple occasions. A close friend dropped a charging moose at the shot with a 41 mag. The moose fell with its head between the legs of the person that the moose charged, whom had fallen down. Generally as caliber size goes up the larger caliber penetrates deeper, but the 41 mag routinely out penetrates the 44 mag assuming good bullets in each As to the poster that posted about a deer running 125 yards and leaving no blood trail after taking a hit from a 41 mag, well I have seen the same exact thing happen with rifles. In other words things out of the ordinary happens at time I would wager a hefty some that a 230 grain semi wad cutter with a wide meplat would exit on any sane angle on an Elk and if placed in the vi tails would kill quite well indeed The 41 mmag properly loaded is no "pip squeak"
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: tradmark]
#108548
05/11/2012 1:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
old hand
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old hand
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my point has always been that it's load dependent. i have loads that i shoot that are wholly inapproprate for raking shots on elk out of my 454, same way i wouldn't use a hornady 325 on certain shots out of my 475, but there are loads that are appropriate in the .41 and there's 500 smith loads i wouldn't wanna use. once you get the 41 and above imho its 99% about the bullet but it's always 100% about accuracy and if someone shoots it better than a larger caliber, use the .41 EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Whitworth]
#108573
05/11/2012 1:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
Distinguished Expert
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Why will the bigger caliber give you a range and angle advantage? .................... .............................. But you are right that when extreme penetration is required, I do prefer really big and really heavy....
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: taurus41]
#108577
05/11/2012 2:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
Distinguished Expert
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Distinguished Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155 |
I say that we are all pretty much on the same page here; as far as: assuming proper weight and shape bullet for caliber is met; the .41 will get it done. I never said contrary. What I said was "I would feel I could get it done with a .41 if I absolutely had to, but I would feel extremely uncomfortable and take only the PERFECT shot for that gun/cartridge combo." I still feel that way.
You all can hunt whatever you like with your .41; and have good success. As for me, I will stick with my .454 and .475 for the bigger game. And I will encourage my elk hunting clients to do the same; as I want them to have the best advantage they can get because of the odds against you when hunting elk.
And I'll bet that if the Q was: .357 for elk?.... somebody would say that "with the proper heavy-weight hardcast bullet it will work in spades."
And somebody else will say: "Spot on!!!" or "EXACTLY!!!"
But regardless of the responses either way, no problem; because it will work in Colorado. Ya know how I know? Well because the DOW says it will because it is the minimum caliber required for Big Game.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#108582
05/11/2012 3:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
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Shootist
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836 |
Hey, there is still no replacement for placement -- period. But stepping up to a larger, more "powerful" caliber still requires a proper bullet and load. Some folks load light and fast in their big calibers and are not taking advantage of the true capabilities of their big-bores.....
Minimum requirements are rarely based on caliber effectiveness.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Whitworth]
#108608
05/12/2012 2:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
Distinguished Expert
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Distinguished Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155 |
Ya DUH! No argument here; never was, never will be as far as placement goes.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#108609
05/12/2012 2:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097 |
As for me, I will stick with my .454 and .475 for the bigger game. And I will encourage my elk hunting clients to do the same; as I want them to have the best advantage they can get because of the odds against you when hunting elk.
I'd rather them to bring a 41 mag than a 454 or 475 if they shot the 41 more acurately. One must place the bullet propely are all is lost and elk hunting isn't easy.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: jwp475]
#108613
05/12/2012 2:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
Distinguished Expert
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Distinguished Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155 |
As for me, I will stick with my .454 and .475 for the bigger game. And I will encourage my elk hunting clients to do the same; as I want them to have the best advantage they can get because of the odds against you when hunting elk.
I'd rather them to bring a 41 mag than a 454 or 475 if they shot the 41 more acurately. One must place the bullet propely are all is lost and elk hunting isn't easy.
Refer to my last post('s).
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#108619
05/12/2012 5:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,399
Vance in AK.
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,399 |
There's always a practical lower end limit, & I would say that's probably 357 max or 41 mag with proper bullets. It's true that shot placement is #1, but if we carry that to it's conclusion then we will be condoning the Single Six in .22 LR as adequate if it's what you shoot best :-) A proper saying in my old street racing/drag racing days was there's no replacement for displacement. I was a big block chevy guy. I like the larger calibers, but my 480 is loaded relatively mild so I can shoot it well with it's 400gr at around 1100fps. I could push it from there but might not shoot it as well. So, I guess I believe in shot placement with displacement!
Vance in AK.
Matthew 6:33 "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: Vance in AK.]
#108622
05/12/2012 5:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,608
s4s4u
Shootist
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Shootist
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,608 |
So, I guess I believe in shot placement with displacement! Best of both worlds
Rod, too.
Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: s4s4u]
#108703
05/13/2012 11:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097 |
I suspect those that think a properly loaded 41 mag is marginal for Elk have never used one. Just MHO
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: wapitirod]
#108707
05/14/2012 2:07 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 14
PBR DRIVER
stranger
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stranger
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 14 |
I wouldn't recommend using the 41 on elk unless you were shooting something like the 265gr Cast Performance and shoot to break it down. I know for a fact several elk and 2 black bears killed corn bread dead with the 175gr. Silver Tip from a 4" revolver. It is shot placement and being upto the task at hand. The 175 would not my choice but it just goes to prove that the critters don't read the ballistic tables...
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: PBR DRIVER]
#108720
05/14/2012 11:58 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,331
TCTex.
Shootist
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Shootist
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,331 |
I have seen a 44 Mag not penetrate a black bear because the shooter didn't use a hardy enough bullet...
Dead Horse...
You can kill it with a 22. This is a God Bless America free public handgun forum where we all have different backgrounds and ideas. If we all came from the same mold than we would all drive the same truck in the same color and live in the same neat little white picket fenced in neighborhoods...
I am sorry, but I have seen a lot of this lately and I guess I a just getting grouchy on my meds... But were are not out on the Crusades to convert the world here. I am glade we have so many passionate hunters out there, but enough is enough...
My theory professor in college stated that he had to be careful with his verb-age. Like all the other arts, music has its “rules” for part writing for each century giving the cartelistic of each genera. When ever my Prof made a statement of, “they didn’t use this,” or “this wasn’t in place yet,” he always had “A” student find an exception to the rule in the library that made the Prof eat his words. So that goes back to how anal do you want to be???
This also reminds me of the time I shot a doe with a 22-250. I didn’t do it just to say it could be done, I really wasn’t expecting a deer to come out while I was varmint hunting. But the flip side to that coin is that I shot the deer in the head at the base of the neck.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb Benjamin Franklin
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: TCTex.]
#108724
05/14/2012 12:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,276
cfish2
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,276 |
Well said TCTex! Couldn't agree more.
Life Member NAHC HHI Member #7149 NRA Member
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: cfish2]
#108726
05/14/2012 12:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
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Shootist
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836 |
Well said TCTex! Couldn't agree more. Are you two sharing his meds?
Oh, and was the dead horse shot with a .41 Magnum or a .44 Special? Cast or jacketed? Standard or magnum primers? These are important details!!
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: taurus41]
#108728
05/14/2012 1:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097 |
Just curious if anyone out there would suggest or has experience dropping an elk with a .41 magnum. If so what bullet/load? Currently I load a 210 grain sierra jhc @ 1500 fps. would this do the job on an elk under 100 yards?? thanks for any replies. The Sierra 210 JHC is a hard bullet designed for penetration and does not over expand. The 210 JHC will work very well on Elk in my experience and opinion Personally I prefer a wide meplat hard cast, but I would not be afraid to use the 210 JHC
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Re: .41 mag for elk?
[Re: jwp475]
#108787
05/15/2012 4:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
Distinguished Expert
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Distinguished Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155 |
Tex;
I think most of us get it. In fact my opening line was about "beating a dead horse:"
QUOTE: "My point is, kind of like beating a dead horse, these discussions are endless." END QUOTE
Gregg
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