45 and Toby,

I don't think it is completely fair to characterize Hogdon 45 Super data as a joke. We have to always bear in mind that for component suppliers to supply reloading data, all that they can use to keep them out of court is SAAMI. If you look at page 17 of the "Voluntary Industry Performance Standards for Pressure and Velocity of Centerfire Pistol and Revolver Ammunition for the Use of Commercial Manufacturers" (SAAMI Specs) you will see the actual "official" published numbers for the 45acp. For a 230 grain bullet, they show 830 fps at 21000 psi (max average pressure). For the 45 ACP +P there is only one entry. A 185 JHP at 1130 fps, with a MAP pressure of 23000 psi. If you look at the numbers in CUP, per SAAMI the MAP for a 230 is 18000. The Hodgdon numbers that I have for the Super are also listed in CUP, pretty much topping out 21000 (cup). I have not found a SAAMi entry for 45+P in CUP.

In comparing PSI numbers, +P is 2000 PSI greater than standard. IN CUP, the 45 Super data is 3000 CUP greater than standard. But and it's a big one, there is no SAAMI for the 45 Super. Hodgden seems to be reasonable. A little light, sure. If Alliant is not listing pressure, in PSI or CUP it's difficult to say exactly what you would call it ;^)

With that said, and with a ton of experience with the 460 Rowland which runs at 39K CUP per Hodgden, there is indeed some wiggle room with the 45 Super IMHO, if you pay attention to the details. The details being the brass and the unsupported part of your chamber/barrel.

I would feel pretty solid saying that you could run SAAMI 45 +P load data with something like Blazer brass, in a barrel that was excessively throated and blow out some cases. On the flip side, +p or even standard 45 acp brass in a comped 45 ACP barrel can be run a lot higher without ruin to the gun or shooter. I have run 45 Super brass with a Clark comped barrel in a 1911 closer to Rowland pressures, than 45 ACP. At least that was my guess, soley looking at velocity, as I have no way to measure pressure.

This is not to pick nits per say, just to point out that it can be done, but requires a certain amount of care. I'll be running my Super this season, with a 250 grain bullet doing 1050 fps in a non-comped 1911. In the same gun, I feel my 230's at 1150 fps are perfectly safe. My gun has a few mods to deal with it, my brass is new Starline 45 Super brass, and at this level (and mods) I am not seeing any appreciable wear on my gun. I completely agree with you 45, I think something closer to 30k PSI can be safe.

And Toby, I agree 100%. 50 or 75 fps really is not going to mean squat generally, as most of the time folks are trying to get handgun loads a tad flatter for longer range. For an iron sighted or even red dotted 45acp, realistically you are not trying to get that last 25 yards past 125 yards. I am only pushing mine just a tad, as Colorado specifies 550 ft-lbs of energy at 50 yards. I will not be in Colorado this year, but since I am going to the trouble, might as well cover that base, just in case ;^)

Craig