Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Franchise]
#169414
03/05/2016 2:07 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,596
racksmasher1
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The other guys took the pics of their bullets when they got home. My bullets were in the trash. That's where they needed to be LOL!!!!!
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Franchise]
#169415
03/05/2016 2:09 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,596
racksmasher1
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I would have, but she was hunting with me at the time 😉😊 David........ be professional.
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: racksmasher1]
#169418
03/05/2016 2:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
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I would have, but she was hunting with me at the time 😉😊 David........ be professional. Please please me...oh yea.....
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Franchise]
#169419
03/05/2016 3:18 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,006
Zee
Shooting Expert
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Shooting Expert
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I would have, but she was hunting with me at the time 😉😊 Learn to multi-task. ;-)
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Franchise]
#169465
03/08/2016 2:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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Hahahaha! 😂 No worries about being argumentative. No myths to dispel. The bullet killed the ram, no doubt. Whether anybody likes what I say or not, the bullet failed to penetrate a 200 poundish 😉 ram, over expanded, lost it's core, and left a relatively small exit wound (core). That sucks. Plain and Simple. Like it or not 😉😆😂 A couple of thoughts. First, not a huge fan of the .44 Magnum -- I know hold the hate mail, I have .44s (just had a custom built), hunt with them, and will continue to into the future. I have always felt it to be a bit of an underachiever. It will get it done when loaded properly, but I like its bigger brothers more. Secondly, you have displayed clearly why I am not a huge lover of jacked expanding bullets at revolver velocities. Very hit of miss, although there are better bullets available -- a lot better, like the mag versions of the XTP -- much tougher. James might be onto something with his comment about the wool possibly filling the hollow-point. I don't know. Clearly the bullets didn't perform well in the animal despite the fact that they did kill it. Thirdly, each and every animal is a law unto itself. Some take a lot of killing to give up the ghost, others not so much. I would hope, David, that you don't give up on revolvers because of this performance -- I understand your reluctance, but these aren't bottle-necked rifle cartridges and we have to work within the limitations of the revolver cartridge. JMHO. Oh, and I really wish I could have made this trip. I had intended to go, but a book manuscript deadline clashed with the hunting dates.
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Whitworth]
#169476
03/08/2016 10:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
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Yeah it may have to do with the coat but ive seen this on game with the mags as well. Good to find out now rather than on a bear or foul tempered cattle! I saw this happen with my cape buff. The ph took a running shot on my buff and the jacket penetrated 4" into the gut and the only lead we found was in the paunch and a smeared piece of 144 grs at that, from a 454 lott. He said he shot cuz he didnt trust the 454 to kill it. (Not bobby hansen the main ph btw). Funny he was shocked to learn the one shot with the aframe put the animal down and the pistol was the only thing killing that day. This is why i preach barnes and a frames, i guess partitions are ok to but not as good imho. I now only use xtps for deer.
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: tradmark]
#169478
03/09/2016 12:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
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Whit/Trademark, YOur experience is showing ....Remember Dave saying afterwards that its time for a Swift. I also cannot forgrt the thick wool coat of his critter. He used the SRH with 240gr JHP on deer without a problem....Sh-it happens..This is why we must all hunt together sometime in the future....
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#169480
03/09/2016 1:13 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 526
sw282
addict
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It is Likely a 300gr Swift Aframe @ 2000fps from a S&W 460 Magnum Xframe would help Franchise build confidence in the CAPABILITIES of a hunting revolver
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: sw282]
#169496
03/09/2016 11:22 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,596
racksmasher1
veteran
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I"m sure the winter coat had a lot to do with bullet performance,that is how we learn about bullet design, performance, we eliminate what does not work, and find components that perform to our expectations.
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#169503
03/09/2016 3:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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He used the SRH with 240gr JHP on deer without a problem....Sh-it happens..This is why we must all hunt together sometime in the future.... I would like that!
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Whitworth]
#169505
03/09/2016 5:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 526
sw282
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I am thinking about shooting a ram or two this Saturday.. A little tougher, as they are of 3/8" T1Steel.. Just so happens l have some XTP 180grainers that might "kill em".. My 2016 Hodgon hot off the press says 29gr of H110 will give me 1709fps..31.5 yields almost 1900fps.. That's DOUBLE my standard 900fps SILHOUETTE load for 240gr sec swayed lead Speers.. I expect those Rams will "die" quickly from a well placed XTP..Even @ 200 meters
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Whitworth]
#169510
03/09/2016 8:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,006
Zee
Shooting Expert
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James might be onto something with his comment about the wool possibly filling the hollow-point. I don't know. Generally speaking, when a hollow point bullet becomes plugged by hair, bone, wood, Sheetrock, clothing, or what not.........the bullet displays the characteristics of a solid. Meaning that it becomes a penetrator as opposed to an expander. The description accompanying this topic seems to depict a bullet that rapidly over expanded, lost its jacket, and allowed the core to continue on. Obviously, contact with heavy bone can also rip a bullet apart sometimes as we all know. Sounds like this may have happened to one or two of his bullets, but I'm not shire which bullets jacket was found and what condition it was in. If a plugged bullet lost it's jacket, I would REALLY like to have seen the remaining jacket to see if it was a sleeve or a pancake. Bullet performance and the science of terminal ballistics are all very exciting and interesting to me. The science of death is so very intriguing.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: sw282]
#169513
03/10/2016 1:29 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,596
racksmasher1
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I am thinking about shooting a ram or two this Saturday.. A little tougher, as they are of 3/8" T1Steel.. Just so happens l have some XTP 180grainers that might "kill em".. My 2016 Hodgon hot off the press says 29gr of H110 will give me 1709fps..31.5 yields almost 1900fps.. That's DOUBLE my standard 900fps SILHOUETTE load for 240gr sec swayed lead Speers.. I expect those Rams will "die" quickly from a well placed XTP..Even @ 200 meters I can"t wait to see the pictures!
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: sw282]
#169520
03/10/2016 11:59 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,596
racksmasher1
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That looks like a BLAST !!!!!!!!!
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Zee]
#169522
03/10/2016 1:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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Generally speaking, when a hollow point bullet becomes plugged by hair, bone, wood, Sheetrock, clothing, or what not.........the bullet displays the characteristics of a solid. Meaning that it becomes a penetrator as opposed to an expander.
The description accompanying this topic seems to depict a bullet that rapidly over expanded, lost its jacket, and allowed the core to continue on.
Obviously, contact with heavy bone can also rip a bullet apart sometimes as we all know. Sounds like this may have happened to one or two of his bullets, but I'm not shire which bullets jacket was found and what condition it was in.
If a plugged bullet lost it's jacket, I would REALLY like to have seen the remaining jacket to see if it was a sleeve or a pancake.
Bullet performance and the science of terminal ballistics are all very exciting and interesting to me. The science of death is so very intriguing.
Yes, in theory. They typically don't become a good solid with a nose profile designed for deep, straight penetration instead, they are bullets that failed to expand, so their nose isn't optimized for penetration. In fact, they more often then not become a poor facsimile of a flat-nosed solid. I share your enthusiasm for terminal ballistics! However, all of this is conjecture without the bullets in-hand.
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Whitworth]
#169525
03/10/2016 3:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,006
Zee
Shooting Expert
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However, all of this is conjecture without the bullets in-hand.
Without a doubt! But, it beats talking politics.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Zee]
#169528
03/10/2016 4:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Whitworth]
#169529
03/10/2016 7:39 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
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And religion. Thats always fun
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: tradmark]
#169531
03/10/2016 9:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246
Spencer
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 246 |
Great hunt guys!! Having any pork tenderloins yet?
sounds like a god time was had by all, and those hogs were HUGE!
NRA life member Let's go make some memories
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Zee]
#169583
03/13/2016 7:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 848
magman
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 848 |
I am booking a hunt there in april. Look forward to it.
NRA LIFE MEMBER NAHC LIFE MEMBER
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: magman]
#169590
03/14/2016 12:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,861
Franchise
Distinguished Expert
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I'm definitely not giving up on revolvers, I just learned a little something new 😉 about the XTP on this hunt. Whatever the reason the bullets did what they did and it is just another learning experience for me. I would love to do this hunt again next year, just with a few more of yall!
The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Franchise]
#169591
03/14/2016 2:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
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I would bet that they were pushed to fast would be my guess. Howd ya load em and did ya chrony them?
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: tradmark]
#169592
03/14/2016 10:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,861
Franchise
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I think so too Mark! I didn't chrony them, but with the results that I got, that would make the most sense. Next year, you've got to make one of our hunts 👍
The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Franchise]
#169594
03/14/2016 2:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
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I would love to. Get some 280 gr aframes and run em as hot as ya want. Long live the swifts!
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: tradmark]
#169827
03/31/2016 8:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 404
Mikewin
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This is highly interesting. I have done extensive testing of the .44 300gr XTP in wet paper with many different powders and velocities, and from many distances. No sign of disintegration whatsoever.
Wet paper is not real animals though, especially not bone, but all the animals I've taken with the bullet has been 1 shot, full penetration kills. Mostly deer, to be sure, but also a 200lbs four-horn ram from about 70 yards. It didn't react that much to the shot, but slowly walked away about 50 yards and piled up undramatically. A double lung shot, substantial exit wound. But no major bone involved, a lot of wool though.
So given my own experiences, I have full confidence in the 300gr XTP for animals at least up to red stag. Then again, reading this report on performance makes one doubt a little.
And oh, Whitworth, the only animal I have had to fire more than one shot at was a pig on which I used heavy hardcast .44 310gr flatpoints...;-)
As a European, I prefer my latte in my NRA coffee mug
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Mikewin]
#169844
04/01/2016 9:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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This is highly interesting. I have done extensive testing of the .44 300gr XTP in wet paper with many different powders and velocities, and from many distances. No sign of disintegration whatsoever.
Wet paper is not real animals though, especially not bone, but all the animals I've taken with the bullet has been 1 shot, full penetration kills. Mostly deer, to be sure, but also a 200lbs four-horn ram from about 70 yards. It didn't react that much to the shot, but slowly walked away about 50 yards and piled up undramatically. A double lung shot, substantial exit wound. But no major bone involved, a lot of wool though.
So given my own experiences, I have full confidence in the 300gr XTP for animals at least up to red stag. Then again, reading this report on performance makes one doubt a little.
And oh, Whitworth, the only animal I have had to fire more than one shot at was a pig on which I used heavy hardcast .44 310gr flatpoints...;-) Oh, and there is no replacement for placement......
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Whitworth]
#169857
04/02/2016 10:22 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 404
Mikewin
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And oh, Whitworth, the only animal I have had to fire more than one shot at was a pig on which I used heavy hardcast .44 310gr flatpoints...;-)
Oh, and there is no replacement for placement...... Haha! Yes, the first shot on that pig was a tad too far back. Not a gut shot but not good enough either. So you're right on the placement thing. But it also proves that not even hard cast bullets can do wonders...
As a European, I prefer my latte in my NRA coffee mug
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Mikewin]
#169871
04/03/2016 1:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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And yet there is not much magical about the way the XTPs performed on this animal - and not a very large animal at that.
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: Whitworth]
#169873
04/03/2016 2:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,556
junebug
Gun Slinger
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Gun Slinger
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,556 |
Yet or forefathers made do with the lowly round ball .There is no replacement for shot placement, and getting close enough to properly place said shot.There was an article years ago of a man killing an elephant with a .22 lr.He knew his anatomy and placed the shot properly and from close range.
Last edited by junebug; 04/03/2016 2:31 PM.
junebug
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: junebug]
#169878
04/03/2016 4:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
OP
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Yet or forefathers made do with the lowly round ball .There is no replacement for shot placement, and getting close enough to properly place said shot.There was an article years ago of a man killing an elephant with a .22 lr.He knew his anatomy and placed the shot properly and from close range. Well said.....
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: Salt Creek hunt
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#170128
04/22/2016 10:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 848
magman
old hand
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old hand
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Just got back from Salt Creek. Had a great time even though the hunt was short. Good people there.
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