Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: hfischer]
#186322
11/14/2017 2:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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Never shot a hog. First whitetail I shot with 44 we tracked 400-600 yards. My cousin got out a ziplock bag cause he wanted the heart. We couldn?t find it. Only small pieces of what was left. Was shocked animal could go that with heart blown apart. Only shoot double lung now and all have been recovered within 50 yards. I've been moving in the other direction. I have found that a heart shot animal is closer to death than a lung shot animal. Sometimes only one lung is clipped and you may never find the animal. The heart, on the other hand...... I've been away for the last few days so I haven't weighed in on this discussion, but here it goes. I'm not a "hater" as that denotes some sort of emotional attachment to an inanimate object. I am however someone who evolves when he sees patterns developing from the use of certain equipment (bullets, guns, optics, etc.). I have used XTPs to some success, but have always had my concerns as they did not perform as advertised. For example, and expanding bullet that doesn't expand. When they don't expand they do a poor impersonation of a non-expanding flat-nosed solid. That's just a fact. I personally think the OP used the wrong bullet on a Texas heart shot. It's just the wrong tool for the task at hand, favoring a bullet that provides uncompromising penetration. That said, as Zee pointed out, until the animal is recovered and dissected, all of this discussion is speculation. That said, I have experienced first hand poor results from the bullets in question, which is not up for speculation. I have no qualms against the shot the OP chose as I have used it successfully in the past, but I typically load for maximum penetration. Below are a few examples of the bullets that have failed that I have witnessed.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Whitworth]
#186329
11/14/2017 4:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 31
SacredCrows
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newbie
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Facts to consider.......
All animals react differently when hit.... one or two or whatever accounts of something not going the way you like with a bullets is still more than likely left in the guessing realm and not necessarily the fact side.
A bullet in the vitals will kill the animal. Shot placement trumps all else.
If you don't want to track....punch both shoulders...
The bullet, gun, scope, rings, bases, and other things are all the easy scape goat for shooter error.
I have been fortunate enough to take a lot of fair chase game. Used sierra, xtp, barnes, cast, and Im sure some others along the way. As long as I did my part meat was in the freezer. If I didn't have meat in the freezer 99.9% of the time it was my fault.
Last edited by SacredCrows; 11/14/2017 4:06 PM.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: SacredCrows]
#186344
11/14/2017 9:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 488
Handgun400
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I'd take the shot again, same bullet and load, given the chance. Primarily because every hog we kill is one less to take out of the woods. They are vermin.
That being said, I learned (emphasis on learned) the limitations of the XTP through my experience and your input. I originally chose to shoot it because of availability and previous success with their rifle bullets. So now I'm tasked with finding another bullet to shoot. Appreciate all the input and guidance.
My filter is broken.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Zee]
#186367
11/15/2017 4:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
old hand
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old hand
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In truth, we will never know. Without a dead body or a firewd bullet we will never know which aspect caused the failure. The bullet for the shooter.
That is not a slight towards either one. Just a fact, that without tangible evidence we will never know. All else is speculation. There have been enough recovered unmushroomed XTP?s to cause concern. Greg Richter moderator here recovered a 400 grain .475 XTP from a mule deer that didn?t expand. That is bullet failure even with a recovered deer.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: jwp475]
#186369
11/15/2017 8:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,434
H2OBUG
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Pooh-Bah
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See below http://www.handgunhunt.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1339&ppuser=2724Hornady 300 XTP fired from a G2 Contender at roughly 1200 FPS. This bullet passed through a 200 lb +/- hog sholder and stuck in the skin on the far side. Pig dropped in its tracks. These bullets will do their job properly placed.
Last edited by H2OBUG; 11/15/2017 8:44 PM.
If it jams force it! If it breaks it needed replacing anyway.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: H2OBUG]
#186372
11/15/2017 10:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821
45MAN
Pooh-Bah
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ALTHOUGH I HAVE SUCCESSFULLY USED XTP's IN THE PAST IN HEAVY 454/45 COLT LOADS, AND STILL USE THEM FOR HEAVY PRACTICE AMMO, YEARS AGO I DECIDED THAT I PREFER TO KNOW WHAT THE BULLET WILL LOOK LIKE WHEN IT HITS AND PENETRATES THE ANIMAL BEFORE I SHOOT THE BULLET! TOO MANY VARIABLES WHEN YOU RELY ON A BULLET TO MUSHROOM, etc., THAT IS WHY WITH THE LARGER BORES, e.g. .429 AND UP, I PREFER TO USE FN BULLETS WITH A GOOD SIZED MEPLAT AND BULLET INTEGRITY TO THE MAX.
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: 45MAN]
#186375
11/16/2017 12:43 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,006
Zee
Shooting Expert
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"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Zee]
#186383
11/16/2017 5:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
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Shooting Expert
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Sorry zee, but i have a couple thousand to reload, so ya cant habe em All.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: tradmark]
#186402
11/16/2017 7:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 488
Handgun400
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45MAN, What WFN bullet do you prefer, if one over others?
My filter is broken.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Handgun400]
#186403
11/16/2017 8:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2017
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45MAN
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FOR DANGEROUS GAME MY 1st CHOICE IS THE PUNCH BULLET. I USED A 45 BARNES BUSTER ON A BLACK BEAR LAST YEAR AND IT DID WELL BUT THE MEPLAT MAY BE A LITTLE TOO SMALL, DO NOT HAVE ENUFF EXPERIENCE WITH THEM OTHER THAN TO SAY THEY ARE WORTH A TRY. THE LEHIGH 300 gr. 45 CAL. WFN BULLET LOOKS VERY GOOD BUT I HAVE NOT USED ANY YET. FOR DEER, PIGS AND SIMILAR SIZED GAME, IN 45 CAL., CAST WFN's IN 260 gr. ON UP SHOULD ALL DO WELL, BUT I WOULD NOT USE THEM ON LARGER GAME BECAUSE THEY CAN BE DEFICIENT IN BULLET INTEGRITY. A CAST 260 gr. WFN @ 900 - 1,400 FPS SHOULD BE MORE THAN ADEQUATE WITH WELL PLACED SHOTS ON DEER. IN THE 900 - 1,100 fps RANGE THEY ARE ALSO PLEASANT TO SHOOT AND DO NOT WEAR YOU OUT. AS FAR AS BRANDS OF CAST WFN's, I HAVE NOT USED ENUFF DIFFERENT KINDS TO SAY ONE IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER.
IN A PRIOR POST THREAD UNDER, AS I RECALL, "THE ORIGIN OF FMJ FLAT POINT BULLETS", WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION RE BULLETS.
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: 45MAN]
#186405
11/16/2017 11:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,556
junebug
Gun Slinger
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Gun Slinger
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Posts: 2,556 |
Would the punch bullet or the Barnes buster be considered a full metal jacketed bullet? If so they would be illegal here in Ky.for game animals.
junebug
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: junebug]
#186406
11/17/2017 12:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
old hand
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old hand
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Would the punch bullet or the Barnes buster be considered a full metal jacketed bullet? If so they would be illegal here in Ky.for game animals. All handgun Bullets sold in the United States meet the legal definition of ?expanding bullets?. Non expanding handgun bullets are not legal in the US.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: jwp475]
#186411
11/17/2017 1:31 AM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821
45MAN
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I WOULD CONSIDER THE PUNCH AND BARNES BUSTER AS FMJ's. IN KY. THEN YOU MAY HAVE TO OPT FOR CAST WFN, WLN, TYPE BULLETS. THE BUREAUCRATS IN KY. WERE OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO OUTLAW MILITARY BALL BUT IN DOING SO OUTLAWED SOME INCREDIBLE HANDGUN KILLING BULLETS, TOO BAD.
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: jwp475]
#186416
11/17/2017 4:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,608
s4s4u
Shootist
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Shootist
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Posts: 9,608 |
Would the punch bullet or the Barnes buster be considered a full metal jacketed bullet? If so they would be illegal here in Ky.for game animals. All handgun Bullets sold in the United States meet the legal definition of ?expanding bullets?. Non expanding handgun bullets are not legal in the US. That may be true in theory, but I'd rather not take a chance arguing that theory with an officer. Bullets used in MN must have some exposed lead or a hollow point.
Rod, too.
Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: 45MAN]
#186417
11/17/2017 5:31 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
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Shooting Expert
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Rey, ive been very pleased with the lehighs
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: s4s4u]
#186418
11/17/2017 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
old hand
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old hand
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Would the punch bullet or the Barnes buster be considered a full metal jacketed bullet? If so they would be illegal here in Ky.for game animals. All handgun Bullets sold in the United States meet the legal definition of ?expanding bullets?. Non expanding handgun bullets are not legal in the US. That may be true in theory, but I'd rather not take a chance arguing that theory with an officer. Bullets used in MN must have some exposed lead or a hollow point. It is not a theory it is a fact. The Punch Bullet is technically considered a hollow point by BATF
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: jwp475]
#186426
11/17/2017 4:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 488
Handgun400
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Just priced them and Punch bullets aren't going to happen here. So I just ordered some Cast Performance WFNGC bullets this morning.
My filter is broken.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Handgun400]
#186431
11/17/2017 4:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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Shootist
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Just priced them and Punch bullets aren't going to happen here. So I just ordered some Cast Performance WFNGC bullets this morning. They're not really necessary until really large animals (with correspondingly large trophy fees) are on the menu. JMHO.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Whitworth]
#186435
11/17/2017 4:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 488
Handgun400
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If I get the opportunity to pursue something that large I won't worry about bullet price!
My filter is broken.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Handgun400]
#186437
11/17/2017 4:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
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Shootist
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If I get the opportunity to pursue something that large I won't worry about bullet price! If only more people thought the way you do! Many want to cut costs in all the wrong places and in my humble opinion, this is the last place to cut cost when your hunt is costing you five figures. You are an enlightened and logically thinking individual!
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Whitworth]
#186439
11/17/2017 4:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 488
Handgun400
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Easy there, flattery will gain you admiration.
I no longer spend $100s on camo clothing, even for bowhunting. The pricey gadgets, next-best-things and "game changers" (good grief I hate that phrase) don't interest me. I DO use quality killing devices and appropriate components--thus, I'm changing bullets because the cast bullet will offer more penetration than my XTP.
How I look is less important than how my equipment performs.
My filter is broken.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Whitworth]
#186440
11/17/2017 4:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821
45MAN
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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MAX: CORRECT, CORRECT, CORRECT. THE PUNCH BULLETS ARE NOT EVERYDAY BULLETS, BUT IF WHAT YOU ARE HUNTING IS DANGEROUS AND/OR BIG AND/OR EXPENSIVE, THE PUNCH BULLETS HAVE NO EQUAL.
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: 45MAN]
#186441
11/17/2017 5:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,512
Ernie
Distinguished Master
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Distinguished Master
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Posts: 5,512 |
IF, I ever hunted something that big, I wouldn't use cast, but I would use a punch bullet.
Ernie the Un-Tactical
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Handgun400]
#186442
11/17/2017 5:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
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Shootist
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Easy there, flattery will gain you admiration.
Haha! Seriously, I know folks who will try to cut bullet costs at every opportunity and it is often a recipe for disaster. It's just nice seeing someone follow a useful trail of logic.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Whitworth]
#186445
11/17/2017 5:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
Shootist
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There`s no doubt that the Punch bullet is the best penetrating bullet for a handgun on the market, but I`ed like you to look at the dead boar that I shot using these bullets in preparation for an African hunt. It was on this boar that I learned about midrange trajectory with heavy bullets and with the load sighted for 100 yards I hit him around 50 and the bullet stricking a couple inches high in that "no man`s land" just below the spine but above the lungs... Knocked him down.... He got up and I chased him through a swamp until I placed the shot you see. The point being... a bad miss with a $100 bullet is not worth a good hit with a $.10 one..........Experience is the best teacher.........Man O Man that is a big handgun... I should have tripped him then beat `em to death
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#186447
11/17/2017 6:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,861
Franchise
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I've stayed out of this post, but let's think about this, there are definitely better bullets out there than XTP'S. I've had great success with them, and I've also seen them slip their jackets and loose their cores. In all of these cases, if I did my part, I cleanly killed the animal
The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Franchise]
#186448
11/17/2017 6:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,861
Franchise
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I have never made a good shot on an animal where I made a good hit that I didn't find a little blood. I've made a lot of poor hits or clean misses, but in every case, I was the problem
The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Franchise]
#186449
11/17/2017 6:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,861
Franchise
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Distinguished Expert
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I'm not a fan of the Texas Heart Shot at all, but in all of my experiences, there has been a lot of blood and other bodily fluid mixtures 😉 left behind when I made those shots. That part of the animal is very visceral to say the least
The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Franchise]
#186452
11/17/2017 7:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 488
Handgun400
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I'm not a fan of the Texas Heart Shot at all, but in all of my experiences, there has been a lot of blood and other bodily fluid mixtures 😉 left behind when I made those shots. That part of the animal is very visceral to say the least And that is what had me perplexed. Admittedly, I expected more penetration (guessing what I got was not much) and better results from the .454. At this point I'll never know what, why or where exactly. the terrain was thick and dry sloughs with a lot of hog sign. Que sera.
My filter is broken.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Handgun400]
#186454
11/17/2017 8:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
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Shooting Expert
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Posts: 3,020 |
U wont know if ya dont recover the animal. We video most of our hunts and it helps to see the bullet hit and know ya made a good shot.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: tradmark]
#186457
11/18/2017 1:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
Shootist
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Shootist
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It must be great when you can video most of your hunts I know I`ed be my biggest fan....
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#186460
11/18/2017 2:26 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,556
junebug
Gun Slinger
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Gun Slinger
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Posts: 2,556 |
We have it so much better now than when I first started hunting with a handgun.Better scopes bullets and guns. The internet and this site allow us to compare notes and discus guns, loads,scopes red dots,bullets in real time.Bullets and loads have gotten better because of this, both cast and jacketed.It has also killed the myth of the MAGIC BULLET or gun caliber that hits him anywhere and knocks him down DRT. The bullet has to be placed thru the vitals,and get to the vitals with enough force to disrupt them and make them leak. [shot placement is still everything] But as the size of the animals get bigger the bullet integrity takes on new meaning and [nearly but not quite ] matches placement in importance. Remember no magic bullets,and a close miss on the vitals is still a miss. That's where perseverance comes in ,once you start the fight,if he's still standing keep shooting.
junebug
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#186464
11/18/2017 4:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,608
s4s4u
Shootist
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Shootist
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I know I`ed be my biggest fan.... That makes two of us, ha
Rod, too.
Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#186467
11/18/2017 5:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
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Shooting Expert
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Posts: 3,020 |
It must be great when you can video most of your hunts I know I`ed be my biggest fan.... Haha. Im my biggest critic
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: tradmark]
#186473
11/18/2017 1:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
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Shootist
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Posts: 9,836 |
It must be great when you can video most of your hunts I know I`ed be my biggest fan.... Haha. Im my biggest critic You and me both!
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Whitworth]
#186914
11/28/2017 3:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 738
98Redline
old hand
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old hand
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I am jumping in a bit late to this party however I would like to add my experience with XTP performance on game. I have had 3 instances where an XTP failed to open on deer. All shots were a 300gr XTP (44 mag) pushed at about 1250 fps. Shots ranged from 2 yards to 50 yards. The 50 yard shot went through the spine, just above the front shoulder. The bullet turned around and was found base forward just under the hide on the opposite side. A followup coup de gras from 2 yards went through the heart and was also found backwards under the hide on the opposite side. The bullet looked similar to the first one but with more pronounced slumping. On a side note, I guess I can join jamesfromjersey's backwards bullet club
I also had a 20 yard shot where the hit was right in the crease behind the front leg. The bullet penciled through, getting both lungs in the process, resulting in a ~200 yard tracking job. The lungs showed a nice clean caliber sized hole in and out. It didn't look like the bullet opened up at all.
Both animals were found and I made what I believe to be decent shots. I think that I will go back to cast (WFN) style bullets or maybe give the Barnes XPBs a try.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Handgun400]
#186917
11/28/2017 6:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 207
TM
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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After much deliberation and many sleepless nights thinking about this I've come to this conclusion: the bullet simply bounced off of him.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: TM]
#186922
11/29/2017 1:59 AM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 488
Handgun400
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After much deliberation and many sleepless nights thinking about this I've come to this conclusion: the bullet simply bounced off of him. After a decent, yet harmless hit in the ?nads. 😂😂😂😂
My filter is broken.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: Handgun400]
#187212
12/08/2017 6:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 58
nomosendero
journeyman
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journeyman
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Posts: 58 |
I would go solids for big stuff but I would like to know if the Swift 280 or 300 might be a good alternative to the 300XTP ?
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.
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Re: Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet concerns
[Re: nomosendero]
#187213
12/08/2017 7:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
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The best alternative imho.
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