JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
#188683
01/16/2018 7:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
OP
Distinguished Expert
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155 |
JD Jones developed I believe the most successful line of "wildcat" cartridges for the Contender which turned the handgun hunting world around setting it full speed ahead.
Basically he came up with the "maximum yet safe" cartridge in about every caliber for the Contender package, developed several good loads for each, and then started chambering mostly Shilen barrels in basically any reasonable length, including rifle length, for his calibers. These were premium barrels and known for their quality and accuracy. Really nothing more need be said, his cartridges will forever stand on their own merit.
Let's see which of his cartridges we own and find out if we cover his entire line-up!
I will start with these two: 6.5 JDJ 375 JDJ
What do you guys have?
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#188684
01/16/2018 10:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 920
billa
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 920 |
I own the 358 JDJ. It?s been my go to big game cartridge for many years. Love it!
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,... " Matthew 28:19
Handgun hunter since 1979 - haven't used a rifle since! HHI member #992, NRA, SCI.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#188686
01/16/2018 10:54 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 128
Subsciber
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 128 |
6mm#2 JDJ 257 JDJ 6.5 JDJ 270 JDJ 309 JDJ 8mm JDJ 338 JDJ 338#2 JDJ 358 JDJ 375 JDJ 411 JDJ 416 JDJ 475 JDJ 475#2 JDJ
I also have a 300 Whisper technically not a JDJ but he developed it. Also 40-44 Woodswalker & 40-454 Woodswalker. Almost forgot 375 JRS(375 on maximized 358 Win case).
Yeah I got alot. Currently own about 50 SSK barrels and have owned as many as 100. If you don't restrict this to Contenders I also have; 25-06 JDJ 6.5 MD 280 JDJ 30-06 JDJ 338-06 JDJ 375-06 JDJ in the Encore. I have at one time or another owned just about every chambering he makes. JD personally thanked me for funding a couple of his hunts. LOL.
Last edited by Subsciber; 01/16/2018 11:10 AM.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Subsciber]
#188688
01/16/2018 11:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 848
magman
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 848 |
The only 2 SSK Contender barrels I have left are the:
6.5JDJ 338JDJ #2
In the Encore:
6.5 MiniDreadnaught
NRA LIFE MEMBER NAHC LIFE MEMBER
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Subsciber]
#188689
01/16/2018 11:08 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,209
REDHAWK1954
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,209 |
Subsciber, I was just wondering which JDJ chambering is your favorite for deer hunting?
Michael Joe Moore
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: REDHAWK1954]
#188690
01/16/2018 11:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,209
REDHAWK1954
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,209 |
Oh, by the way that is some collection you have!
Michael Joe Moore
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: REDHAWK1954]
#188691
01/16/2018 11:12 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 128
Subsciber
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 128 |
Redhawk, don't have time to respond right now but I will get back with you later today(leaving for work).
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Subsciber]
#188693
01/16/2018 12:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821
45MAN
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821 |
I CURRENTLY HAVE A 14 INCH 6.5 JDJ, A 10 INCH WHISPER, AND, IN THE ENCORE, A 375 JDJ AND THE 375-06 JDJ. ON MY FIRST AFRICAN SAFARI IN 1988 I SHOT MOST OF MY ANIMALS WITH A 14 INCH 375 JDJ CONTENDER.
PRE-ENCORE, J.D. JONES' WILDCATS GAVE US THE CALIBERS WE NEEDED FOR BIG GAME HUNTING.
I DO NOT SHOOT MY SINGLE SHOTS MUCH ANYMORE, PREFERRING REVOLVERS, BUT THEY ARE THERE WHEN AND IF......
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: 45MAN]
#188695
01/16/2018 2:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 417
Seminole Wind
addict
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addict
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 417 |
I can't imagine a better handgun deer cartridge than the .309 JDJ. It is effective close and far. Recoil is manageable. Bullet selection is extensive. I have two Contenders in the .309.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Seminole Wind]
#188696
01/16/2018 2:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
OP
Distinguished Expert
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OP
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Awesome, guys! Subscriber: that's kool!
I will add that I also have a 30-06 JDJ in the Encore.
If you want, tell us the parent cartridge and favorite bullet for each.
My 6.5 JDJ uses the .225 Winchester case and I like the 120 grain Speer Spitzer (lead tip) for antelope and deer. The .375 JDJ is formed from the .444 Marlin case and I like the 270 grain Hornady (lead tip) for elk.
The 30-06 JDJ is of course an '06 case "improved" and I like the 180 grain Nosler Partition.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#188697
01/16/2018 3:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,725
500WE
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,725 |
Looks like Subscriber wins an award! Now you need a .226 for your Contender! My own group (all for the Contender) includes: .257 JDJ 6.5 JDJ .309 JDJ .338 JDJ No. 2 .375 JDJ .338 Woodswalker
Other non-wildcat SSK barrels are: .45-70 (6.5" ! it was a gift) 7.63 Mauser - dimensionally identical to 7.62x25 Tokarev .225 Winchester .480 Ruger
My favorites of all these are the .257, .338 No. 2, and .375 JDJ's, but there are no flies on any of them. JD's contributions to handgunning are deep and wide ranging.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#188698
01/16/2018 3:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,205
KYODE
Shooting Expert
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Shooting Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,205 |
Im a contender man.....and i dont have one. That is sad.
If i could go back in time, id had a 358jdj to do my deer hunting with. I wasnt like you rich guys. I come up poor. 😂 ive bout quit hunting, so dont need one so much now lol.
......or a 309 would have been equally doable.
30-30AI and 35rem are great regular cartridges that can do a fine job as well.
Id love to have an SSK barrel. Not sure what id want it in. Target and fun are top priority nowdays.
Kentucky….no place like home.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: KYODE]
#188700
01/16/2018 4:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,048
wvhitman
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,048 |
I have owned and/or shot about everything JD has made. I'm lucky enough for him to visit me yearly with a car full of guns that we shoot and take crop damage deer with to check performance. My Contenders have taken at least 5000 of the 13,000 groundhogs I've taken and 800 of the 2300+ deer I've taken. The most popular and effective have been the 6.5 JDJ and .309 JDJ. JD is definitely an icon in the world of handguns and I consider myself extremely lucky to have him as one of my best friends.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: wvhitman]
#188703
01/16/2018 5:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 366
JDK
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 366 |
I have owned and/or shot about everything JD has made. I'm lucky enough for him to visit me yearly with a car full of guns that we shoot and take crop damage deer with to check performance. My Contenders have taken at least 5000 of the 13,000 groundhogs I've taken and 800 of the 2300+ deer I've taken. The most popular and effective have been the 6.5 JDJ and .309 JDJ. JD is definitely an icon in the world of handguns and I consider myself extremely lucky to have him as one of my best friends. When is our meeting this year? just email me the address!
John
But for the grace of God, there, I go.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: JDK]
#188712
01/16/2018 7:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
Shootist
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Shootist
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715 |
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: JDK]
#188713
01/16/2018 7:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 171
Buck_358
member
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member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 171 |
Contender - Pistol 309 JDJ 358 JDJ ? Factory TC - Rechambered 416 JDJ
Encore SSK Barrels - Pistol 257 Ackley Imp 7x57 Ackley Imp 35-06 JDJ 458 Win Magnum 50 B&M Alaskan
Encore SSK Barrels ? Rifle 244 Ackley Imp 257 Ackley Imp 358 Norma Magnum 458 Nomad ? JD did the barrel work for my first named wildcat ? This to meet the 2014 Indiana deer rifle regs. The case is a 458 Win cut to 1.800 inches.
NRA Patriot Life Endowment HHI #6544
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Buck_358]
#188714
01/16/2018 7:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 204
Buttermilk
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 204 |
I've owned the 30-06 JDJ. Was very accurate (rechambered 308W T/C bbl) and pushed 168/165's to over 2700+ FPS.
Regards, Rog
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Buttermilk]
#188721
01/16/2018 11:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 128
Subsciber
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 128 |
Redhawk, If you're wanting to try something new I would look at the 40-44 Woodswalker. It does a number on whitetails. I shoot 165gr Speer Gold Dots @ 2100fps and at the ranges I commonly kill deer its simply awesome. Favorite? If I had one I wouldn't own so many barrels. Sorry if you think that's a cop out but it's the truth.
500WE, never had any interest in the 226 JDJ or the 7mm JDJ, but I do have a friend that has a 7mm#2 JDJ and have shot it a good bit. I too own a 45-70 SSK barrel and a 50AK. I just restricted my reply to JDJ chamberings.
Kyode, my friend, I'm not rich because I spent all my money on barrels LOL. Seriously though my stash has been accumulated over almost 40yrs and when I started I worked a good union job and still lived with my parents(didn't marry until I was 32).
If anyone has questions about certain chamberings just post an email address and I will get back with you. Be patient and forwarned it may take some time for me to reply as I do not live on a computer.
Last edited by Subsciber; 01/16/2018 11:02 PM.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#188722
01/16/2018 11:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 175
Andyhunter
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 175 |
I love everything JDJ, I currently have:
.300 Whisper .257 JDJ 6.5 JDJ .270 JDJ .309 JDJ .375 JDJ 7 mm #2 JDJ
I used to use the .375 JDJ for everything, but I am planning on taking the .309 JDJ out west for Elk. I love the recoil and it seems to be a little flatter shooting... or maybe that's just me...
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Andyhunter]
#188723
01/17/2018 12:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,205
KYODE
Shooting Expert
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Shooting Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,205 |
Lol subscriber! I love accusing yoiuns of being rich. Im well satisfied with my contender collection. It has been a long row to hoe.
Wvhitman.... you n JD can meet halfway at my house. Subscriber could also....n buy our lunch😂
Kentucky….no place like home.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#188724
01/17/2018 12:27 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 329
Mech 8
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 329 |
257 JDJ 6.5 JDJ (2) 6.5X30 JDJ 270 JDJ 7mm JDJ 309 JDJ 338 JDJ #2 358 JDJ 375 JDJ (2)
SSK barrels that are not JDJ calibers: 250 Savage 30-30 Win 30-30 A.I. 8X57 Mauser 405 Win 44 Mag (1 14 inch, 1 12 inch) 45-70 Govt
One of the 6.5 JDJ barrels has taken more deer than any of the other barrels combined. I purchased it back in the 90's, and it became my go-to gun. If I had to keep only one barrel, I would probably pick the 338 JDJ #2. I have been really impressed with it's power and accuracy. The surprise cartridge has been the 270 JDJ based on the 225 Win. The 130 grain Nosler B-Ts work really well and you can get over 2400 fps with them. Of course I'm not done collecting them!
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Mech 8]
#188730
01/17/2018 1:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,556
junebug
Gun Slinger
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Gun Slinger
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,556 |
Only two a 358 JDJ and a 375 JDJ.
junebug
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: junebug]
#188736
01/17/2018 3:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,359
SChunter
Shooting Expert
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Shooting Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,359 |
Contenders:
257 JDJ 6.5 JDJ 309 JDJ 475 JDJ 300 Whisper
Encore:
6.5/270 JDJ
My SSK barrels started me down a terrible path in Specialty Pistols
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#188744
01/17/2018 6:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 24
curioushooter
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 24 |
Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I just don't get that excited about wildcats based on usually already rare parent cases. Take the 375 JDJ which I think can be reasonably said to be the most successful of the JDJs. It's based on the 444 Marlin, which isn't even a common case, and is trouble enough to get your hands on, let alone potentially destroy in the conversion process.
Then start asking yourself WHY? How do any of the JDJ cartridges do something better than an already available cartridge? For example, is the 375 JDJ really an improvement over its parent, the 444 Marlin? Both cartridges are way overkill for deer, so lets focus on Elk. 444 Marlin, under 100 yards, offers better KO values. And beyond that, I really begin to doubt the wisdom of using a handgun. And 430 diameter has a much wider bullet selection than 375, too. To me a 375 JDJ makes MORE sense in a longer barreled rifle, like a re-barelled Marlin formerly in 444 than anything else.
The same goes for small bores it seems. Is there a small-bore JDJ cartridge that can do something the 7-30 Waters or 223 Rem can't?
I have owned several bizarre (44 Swiss), obsolescent (7.62x38R), and wildcat chambered firearms in my life, but now I've whittled it down to only one: 357 Herrett, based of the 30-30, and nearly perfect for whitetails. Common parent case, wide bullet selection (357/358, both pistol and rifle bullets), and no brutal recoil. I've fired a contender with a 375 JDJ and a X-Frame S&W in 500. No thanks!
But for those that like the JDJs, keep on enjoying them, anything that makes Contenders popular I support.
Last edited by curioushooter; 01/17/2018 6:14 PM.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: curioushooter]
#188747
01/17/2018 6:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,048
wvhitman
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,048 |
Curioushooter, when JD developed most of his rounds there were no handguns that had the power to take down large animals. The .375 JDJ? Sure it's on a .444 Marlin case which has been hard to get at times, but no more with Starline making them. Too much for deer? Absolutely, but the 100 or so deer I've done was in preparation for bigger game. Learn on deer, then bigger stuff is a piece of cake. I never had problem one with my first brown bear. Stopped him in mid charge at 20 some yards with my .375. Larry Kelly and Mark Hampton have used it quite well on elephant, rhino, buff, lion, and leopard. Use it in a rifle and not a handgun? OK, that makes you a rifle hunter. I'm a handgun hunter. Not interested. Use a .444 instead? That's a good round, but it's a short range round. Maybe 150 at best. My .375 JDJ has done groundhogs and deer out to 275. Others have done larger game than them at longer range than what the .444 is fit for. Small bore JDJs? Yeah, many are not much different in power than other equivalent rounds, but for one glaring exception, the 6.5JDJ. It kills way out of proportion than other small caliber rounds on large animals. I'd rather carry my light 6.5JDJ on an elk hunt than a 10# rifle. They're in trouble out to 350-400 and I'm not pooped from the extra weight. Now, I use other JDJ rounds in Encores and XPs, but I know if anything would happen to them I'd have my Contenders to fall back on and not feel the least bit undergunned. Oh, yeah, I consider my .375 JDJ and .500 Smith pussy cats, but that's just me.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: curioushooter]
#188748
01/17/2018 7:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
OP
Distinguished Expert
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OP
Distinguished Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155 |
Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I just don't get that excited about wildcats based on usually already rare parent cases. Take the 375 JDJ which I think can be reasonably said to be the most successful of the JDJs. It's based on the 444 Marlin, which isn't even a common case, and is trouble enough to get your hands on, let alone potentially destroy in the conversion process.
Then start asking yourself WHY? How do any of the JDJ cartridges do something better than an already available cartridge? For example, is the 375 JDJ really an improvement over its parent, the 444 Marlin? Both cartridges are way overkill for deer, so lets focus on Elk. 444 Marlin, under 100 yards, offers better KO values. And beyond that, I really begin to doubt the wisdom of using a handgun. And 430 diameter has a much wider bullet selection than 375, too. To me a 375 JDJ makes MORE sense in a longer barreled rifle, like a re-barelled Marlin formerly in 444 than anything else.
The same goes for small bores it seems. Is there a small-bore JDJ cartridge that can do something the 7-30 Waters or 223 Rem can't?
I have owned several bizarre (44 Swiss), obsolescent (7.62x38R), and wildcat chambered firearms in my life, but now I've whittled it down to only one: 357 Herrett, based of the 30-30, and nearly perfect for whitetails. Common parent case, wide bullet selection (357/358, both pistol and rifle bullets), and no brutal recoil. I've fired a contender with a 375 JDJ and a X-Frame S&W in 500. No thanks!
But for those that like the JDJs, keep on enjoying them, anything that makes Contenders popular I support.
Awww c'mon curioushooter, where is your sense of adventure? Your name even says that you DO have SOME, so why not with JD's wildcats?
Seriously though, you are kinda stepping on a slippery slope so I will try and throw some sand under 'ya.
When JD Jones started experimenting and developing his cartridges, what he was really doing is wildcatting the most practical safe power in each caliber for hunting small and big game out of the small, light, almost elite Contender frame. Your argument about cartridges basically duplicating or overlapping other current cartridges (which weren't even neccessarily available in the CONTENDER way back then, as wvhitman said) is very weak. Look at today's lineup of rifle cartridges and what is popular! What does the 6.5 Creedmoore do.... blah blah blah what about the new Hornady cartridge ...blah blah... hey the new Weatherby .... and blah blah etc.
Part of it is marketing and of course stimulating sales, sure. But a large part of it is giving the ultimate consumer (the shooter that buys it and uses it) a new adventure/perspective and hopefully some enjoyment that he doesn't get out of something he already owns. Why did I just buy a 30-06 rifle when I already have: a .308 M-16, a sweet .308 Remington 600, a 30-06 JDJ Encore, a .300 Win. Mag, and ...?
We are surely blessed!
As I and others have said: JD Jones, by developing his cartridges, put handgun hunting into the limelight and the modern ages and ...etc. Basically the total positive long term impact of what he did for handgun hunting with his JDJ's can not really be summed up in in simple words, IMO.
Besides that, it gives you something to spend your money on other than whiskey, fast horses, and faster women!
Not to mention it is just plain d--- fun.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: wvhitman]
#188749
01/17/2018 8:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821
45MAN
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821 |
THANKS DOC, CURIOUSSHOOTER's POST NEEDED RESPONDING TO. AS YOU NOTE, THE JDJ's HAVE TO BE PUT IN THEIR HISTORICAL CONTEXT OF BACK IN THE DAY BEFOR THE 7-30 WATERS AND ENCORE'S, AND THE NEED FOR CONTENDER CARTRIDGES TO TAKE ALL SORTS OF GAME AT ALL SORTS OF RANGES. IF I EVER LOST ANY CASES FORMING 375 JDJ AND 6.5 JDJ CASES I CAN'T REMEMBER IT, AND BACK THEN 444 AND 225 BRASS WAS READILY AVAILABLE.
IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN MAGIC, HUNT WITH A 6.5 JDJ CONTENDER AND YOU WILL BECOME A BELIEVER. WITH IT I HAVE OUTSHOT RIFLE BUDDIES AT LONG RANGE.
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: 45MAN]
#188755
01/17/2018 8:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,861
Franchise
Distinguished Expert
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Distinguished Expert
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,861 |
Starline is making 444 Marlin brass too...it's really not hard to find...just www. order it and stock up when you find it.....and there are many reasons why wildcats are superior 😉
The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: curioushooter]
#188762
01/18/2018 1:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 920
billa
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 920 |
Curioushooter a.k.a. Wet blanket- The others have already said it well but I want to get my 2 cents in. First of all 444 cases have never been hard for me to find or form for my 358JDJ. It?s a one step process with no fallout. no harder than sizing new brass. Additionally they last for many firings. 100 cases last for years. Far easier to make than 357 Herrett and they last much longer. As the others have said the JDJs are the best class of Contender rounds available and they outperform all standard offerings. Now for the Why??? If I apply your logic to other aspects of life SPAM is good enough to eat and I guess a good steak is excessive. I assume you only wear blue jeans and t shirts. Well you get the point. In reality my 358 JDJ is superior to any standard offering or to the 444 in a Contender. It is effective on any deer without excessive meat damage at any angle out to 200+ yards with 220 or 250 grain bullets. My best shot to date has been a full penetration shoulder shot on a 600 lb Kudu at 190 yards. Not sure I would have tried that with a 444 or less. That being said I appreciate you posting your opinions and I respect your views. The main thing is that you are handgunning. Stay away from those nasty long guns.
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,... " Matthew 28:19
Handgun hunter since 1979 - haven't used a rifle since! HHI member #992, NRA, SCI.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#188770
01/18/2018 5:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,461
pab1
Distinguished Expert
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Distinguished Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,461 |
I owned a 338JDJ#2 Contender barrel. It was accurate but had a brake which I didn't care for so I sold it. I have 375JDJ 15" and 26" Encore barrels and have been very happy with both of them. They are both very accurate with 270gr Hornady's.
Experience is the best teacher, hunger good sauce. Osborne Russell Journal of a Trapper
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: KYODE]
#188810
01/19/2018 4:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 53
HHI6818
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 53 |
Couple years ago I made this SSK cartridge board. Parent cartridge, necked up/down, and formed case Contender 257 JDJ 6.5 JDJ two 14 inch barrels 309 JDJ 338 Whisper 375 JDJ 14 and 16 1/4 inch barrels 445 SM Encore 257 JDJ 17 inch barrel. 6.5 MD 35-06 JDJ 375-06 JDJ
Last edited by HHI6818; 01/19/2018 4:28 AM.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: HHI6818]
#188812
01/19/2018 5:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155
Gregg Richter
OP
Distinguished Expert
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OP
Distinguished Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,155 |
Nice board! Great way to display them showing before and after cases.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#188813
01/19/2018 12:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821
45MAN
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821 |
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#188818
01/19/2018 4:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,057
Gary
Distinguished Master
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Distinguished Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,057 |
Some Common and Un-Common Single-Shot Handgun Cartridges(L to R): 375 Winchester, 444 Marlin, 7mm JDJ #2, 338 JDJ, 309 JDJ, 375 JDJ, 376 Steyr, 416 Taylor and 458 Winchester Magnum.
You can't wait any longer. Join the NRA and start writing your Congressmen and Senators.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Gary]
#188823
01/19/2018 7:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 270
Randominator
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 270 |
NRA Life Member HHI Member VHA Member
"get busy living, or get busy dying"
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: Randominator]
#188831
01/20/2018 3:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 24
curioushooter
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 24 |
I am somewhat surprised by how upset some of you guys seem to get over really very mild criticisms of JDJ cartridges. In no way do I mean to offend! I don't really have a problem with JDJ cartridges at all; people should do and buy what they want so far as I am concerned, but I remain completely unimpressed by them and unconvinced of their merit, and I offer my explanations as to why to not defend myself so much as to help you understand my personal perspective. Perhaps you could explain to me why you find them so worthwhile (though I don't find "magic" particularly compelling).
The prevailing argument seems to be that JDJ cartridges are "better" because they bring the Contender platform to the limit of performance. This is debatable, but I'll allow if for now for the sake of argument. I think it is worth pointing out that some JDJs may have exceeded the chronic performance limit of the first Gen Contender, but I don't really see the merit in pushing it anyway. My thinking is that if one feels the need for "MORE" then get an Encore (or a bolt-action handgun) which is available in so many common, powerful cartridges, and has been for 20+ years now. If one prefers the smaller platform, easy portability, and pleasant shooting characteristics of the Contender or G2, then why spoil the fun with chamberings that operate at the very edge of that platform and undermine some of those characteristics? If less powerful and exotic cartridges get the job done with less boom, blast, powder, and stress on the action and one's hand, then they are better to my thinking, as they are more easily obtained, pleasant, and neighborly.
Regarding neighborliness, the particular incident I recall is some guy blasting away with his 375 JDJ Contender at a public range in Indiana (there's nothing bigger than Whitetails in Indiana, but let's suppose this guy is the unlikely Hoosier that travels out-of-state to hunt big game). I am sure his huge earmuffs (likely with plugs beneath)and standing behind the muzzle made it tolerable...FOR HIM (wonder what he's going to do in the woods though). What was irritating to me was the deafening shockwave that emanated laterally from the muzzle, especially for those of us who find regular inside-the-ear hearing protection adequate. Fortunately, his poor shooting (perhaps due to recoil-induced flinch) irritated him enough that he moved down the line (away from me at the 100 yard line) to 50 yards and then to 25 before he eventually called it a day. I think that if this had been a 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, or even something like 357 Herrett this wouldn't have been the dreary, deafening spectacle that it was, and all of those cartridges would have done the job on Whitetails or steel rams.
Also, I am not really sure what anyone is trying to say about 444 being easy to find. It IS NOT and NEVER WILL BE anywhere near as common, cheap, or available as 30-30, 357 Mag, 44 Mag, etc. I get 30-30 cases for free or for commodity brass price picking through range brass all the time. I have yet to find a single 444 Marlin case in literally thousands and thousands of rounds I have scrounged through over the last 7 years I've been doing this. Sure I can buy 444 Marlin brass when it's available (it is a seasonal run affair, or was), but it costs about 100x more than a 30-30 case. And even if I were to buy NEW 30-30 brass it costs about half to one third as much as 444.
The other reason I don't get excited about JDJs is their internal ballistic properties are the reverse for what is desirable in a handgun (they are NECKED DOWN versions of the parent cartridge). Handguns, with short barrels, use fast burning powders so it doesn't just become wasted fire and boom out the muzzle. Fast burning powders run up against chamber pressure limitations and need large bullet diameters to increase the surface area that chamber pressure is applied to. The greatest muzzle energies for a given amount of propellant are achieved with straight-walled or nearly straight-walled cases, therefore. Necking down makes sense in a rifle because not only are rifles very strong and can handle high chamber pressures, they have long barrels that can make use of slow burning propellants, and they have great ergonomic stability, allowing one to actually make good use of the superior external ballistic properties offered by smaller bore sizes. That is why I said it makes more sense for 375 JDJ to be in a Marlin lever-action rifle, while 444 Marlin makes more sense in a Contender pistol. And that is why to me 357 Herrett makes sense as a Wildcat for a handgun. It is a NECKED UP version of a rifle round. The conversion makes the case MORE EFFECIENT for the platform, not LESS EFFECIENT. It improves performance over its parent case rather than reduce it.
I am not sure what anyone is trying to prove with saying that JDJs were the only thing available "back in the day." Wasn't 45-70 one of the original chamberings for the Contender? And what was preventing somebody from chambering a Contender in 444 Marlin. It would have been easier than making ANOTHER Wildcat, that is for sure!
357 Herrett is straightforward to conversion from 30-30, improves on its parents performance in a handgun, and if you necksize or minimally size, so far, my 357 Herrett brass seems to be immortal (I haven't worn one out yet). It is pleasant to shoot, even with max loads pushing 200 grainers, not terribly loud, and I am confident it is far more effective on Whitetails than ANY 6.5mm mm cartridge out of a short barrel under 200 yards. I've shot and butchered enough deer to know what works well, killing them quickly but with minimum meat damage.
If one is convinced that one needs a small bore Contender cartridge, the 7-30s Waters is out there by 1974 and the 25-35, 256 Winchester, 225 Winchester, 22 Hornet/K-Hornet, 219 Donaldson Wasp, and many other cartridges have been around for far LONGER than the Contender, let alone JDJs.
It just dawned on me that J. D. Jones pretty much did the reverse of the JDJ serieswith the Whisper Cartridges. He took rifle cartridges and necked them UP to slow them down to handgun velocities for use in rifles, again reversing what makes good ballistic sense for the intended platform. This was done to make them subsonic and quiet, but if that is the goal, then why not use a bow and arrow, since it is subsonic-er and quiet-er?
Last edited by curioushooter; 01/20/2018 6:54 AM.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: curioushooter]
#188833
01/20/2018 7:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,461
pab1
Distinguished Expert
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Distinguished Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,461 |
Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I just don't get that excited about wildcats based on usually already rare parent cases. Take the 375 JDJ which I think can be reasonably said to be the most successful of the JDJs. It's based on the 444 Marlin, which isn't even a common case, and is trouble enough to get your hands on, let alone potentially destroy in the conversion process.
Then start asking yourself WHY? How do any of the JDJ cartridges do something better than an already available cartridge? For example, is the 375 JDJ really an improvement over its parent, the 444 Marlin? Both cartridges are way overkill for deer, so lets focus on Elk. 444 Marlin, under 100 yards, offers better KO values. And beyond that, I really begin to doubt the wisdom of using a handgun. And 430 diameter has a much wider bullet selection than 375, too. To me a 375 JDJ makes MORE sense in a longer barreled rifle, like a re-barelled Marlin formerly in 444 than anything else.
The same goes for small bores it seems. Is there a small-bore JDJ cartridge that can do something the 7-30 Waters or 223 Rem can't?
I have owned several bizarre (44 Swiss), obsolescent (7.62x38R), and wildcat chambered firearms in my life, but now I've whittled it down to only one: 357 Herrett, based of the 30-30, and nearly perfect for whitetails. Common parent case, wide bullet selection (357/358, both pistol and rifle bullets), and no brutal recoil. I've fired a contender with a 375 JDJ and a X-Frame S&W in 500. No thanks!
But for those that like the JDJs, keep on enjoying them, anything that makes Contenders popular I support. I am somewhat surprised by how?upset some of you guys seem to get over really very mild criticisms of JDJ cartridges. In no way do I mean to offend.?I?don't really have a problem with JDJ cartridges at all; people can?do and buy?what they want so far as I am concerned, but?I remain completely unimpressed by them and unconvinced of their merit, and I offer my explanations as to why to not defend myself so much as to help you understand my personal perspective. Perhaps you could explain to me why you find them so worthwhile (though I don't find "magic" particularly compelling). ? The prevailing?argument seems to be that JDJ cartridges are "better" because they bring the Contender platform to the limit of performance. This is debatable, but I'll allow if for now for the sake of argument. I think it is?worth pointing out that?some?JDJs may have?exceeded the?chronic?performance limit of the first Gen Contender, but?I don't really see the merit in pushing it anyway.?My thinking is that if?one feels the need for?"MORE" then get an Encore which is available in so many common, powerful cartridges, and has been for 20+ years now.?If one prefers the smaller platform, easy portability, and pleasant shooting characteristics of the Contender or G2, then why spoil the fun with?chamberings that operate at the very edge of that platform and undermine some of?those characteristics? If less powerful and exotic?cartridges get the job done with less boom, blast, powder, and stress on the action and?one's hand, then they are better to my thinking, as they are more easily obtained, pleasant, and neighborly. ? Regarding neighborliness, the particular incident I recall is some guy blasting away with his 375 JDJ Contender at a public range in Indiana (there's nothing bigger than Whitetails in Indiana, but let's?suppose this guy is the unlikely Hoosier that travels out-of-state to hunt big game).?I am sure his huge earmuffs (likely with plugs?beneath)?and?standing behind the muzzle?made it tolerable...FOR HIM (wonder what he's going to do in the woods though).?What was irritating to me was the?deafening shockwave that emanated laterally from the muzzle, especially for those of us who find regular inside-the-ear hearing protection adequate. Fortunately, his poor shooting (perhaps due to recoil-induced flinch) irritated him enough that?he moved down the line (away from me at the 100 yard line)?to 50 yards and then to 25 before he eventually called it a day. I think that if this had been a 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, or even something like 357 Herrett this wouldn't have been the dreary, deafening?spectacle that it was, and all of those cartridges would have done the job on Whitetails or steel rams. ? Also, I am not really sure what?anyone is trying to say about 444 being easy to find. It IS NOT and NEVER WILL BE anywhere near as common, cheap, or available as 30-30, 357 Mag, 44 Mag, etc. I get 30-30 cases for free or for commodity brass price picking?through range brass?all the time. I have yet to find a single?444 Marlin?case in literally thousands and thousands?of rounds I have scrounged through over?the last?7 years I've been doing this. Sure I can buy 444 Marlin brass when it's available (it is a seasonal run affair, or was), but it costs about 100x more than a 30-30 case. And even if I were to buy NEW 30-30 brass it costs about half to one third as much as 444. ? The other reason I don't get excited about JDJs is their internal ballistic properties are?the reverse for what is desirable in a?handgun (they?are NECKED DOWN versions of the parent cartridge). Handguns, with short barrels,?use fast burning powders so it doesn't?just become wasted fire and boom out the muzzle. Fast burning powders run up against?chamber pressure limitations and?need large bullet diameters to increase the surface area that chamber pressure is applied to. The greatest muzzle energies for a given amount of propellant?are achieved with straight-walled or nearly straight-walled cases, therefore. Necking down makes sense in a rifle because not only are rifles very strong?and can handle high chamber pressures, they have long barrels that can make use of slow burning propellants, and they have great ergonomic stability, allowing one to actually make use of the superior external ballistic properties offered by smaller bore sizes.?That is why I said it makes more?sense for 375 JDJ to be in a Marlin lever-action rifle, while 444 Marlin makes more sense in a Contender pistol. And that is why to me 357 Herrett makes sense as a Wildcat for a handgun.?It is a NECKED UP version of a?rifle round. The conversion makes the case MORE EFFECIENT for the platform, not LESS EFFECIENT. It improves performance?over its parent case?rather than reduce it. ? I am not sure what anyone is trying to prove with saying that JDJs were?the only thing available "back in the day."?Wasn't 45-70?one of the original chamberings for the Contender? Is there a?game animal?in North America that?requires more than what 45-70 can deliver? 357 Herrett, which predates the JDJ as well,?is straightforward to convert from 30-30, and if you necksize or minimally size, so far, my 357 Herrett brass?seems to be immortal (I haven't worn one out yet). It is pleasant to shoot, even with max loads pushing 200 grainers, not terribly loud, and I am?confident it is far more effective on Whitetails than ANY 6.5mm mm cartridge out of a short barrel under 200 yards. I've shot and butchered enough deer to know what works well, killing them quickly?but with?minimum meat damage. ? If one is convinced that one needs a small bore handgun cartridge, the 7-30s Waters is out there, and has been since what...1974...3 years before the JDJs? If you want a really small bore, the 223, 22 Hornet/K-Hornet, 219 Donaldson Wasp, and many other cartridges have been around for far LONGER than the Contender, let alone JDJs. ? It just dawned on me that J. D. Jones pretty much did the reverse of the JDJ series?with the Whisper Cartridges. He took good rifle cartridges and necked them UP to slow them down to handgun velocities, largely negating the benefits of flat trajectories, etc. This was done to make them subsonic and quiet, which I suppose is worthwhile for some people. Why not just load pistol cartridges like 9mm and 357 Mag or whatever with extremely heavy bullets? To my mind J. D. Jones is perhaps the most overrated, if prolific,?Wildcatter. Not saying this is bad, because any Wildcatter at least adds to the repository of reloading knowledge, but I'd rank him behind every other Wildcatter I know of. ? I really can't see the point of putting so much time and energy into saying why you don't like the JDJ rounds. The whole purpose of this thread was to see what JDJ rounds members here have. Not as a debate about whether or not they're worth shooting. Maybe start a new thread about why you dislike the rounds. Who's place is it to say what round is too much for whitetail or any other game? You shoot the rounds you enjoy and I'll shoot the rounds I enjoy. I shoot both 375JDJ and 444 Marlin. Of the two the 375JDJ is a more versatile round. As others have pointed out 444 Marlin brass is readily available now since Starline started offering it. Prior to Starline I never had a problem getting it. In addition to some brass, many bullets I use are offered as seasonal runs. You plan ahead and stock up when its offered. Its not that difficult. I've also never destroyed a case in the "conversion process" while forming 375JDJ. Why does it matter to you if someone spends more for 444 Marlin brass than .30-30 brass? Components for many rounds are priced higher than other rounds. If you consider a round to be outside what you're comfortable spending then don't shoot it. The incident you related about the guy at the range with his 375JDJ in no way represents what the round is capable of. My 15" and 26" Encore 375JDJ barrels are very accurate. I've seen people shoot poorly with rifles and handguns in a variety of rounds from those with low recoil to rounds with heavy recoil. That's usually a reflection of the lack of skill by the shooter, not the round. The 375JDJ is no louder than many other rounds I shoot. If you choose to go to a public range then accept the fact that some people might be shooting rounds that are louder than others. Maybe you're not being "neighborly" shooting your 357 mag, 44 mag or 357 Herrett in the eyes of the guy shooting his 22lr nearby. The recoil of the 375JDJ isn't considered bad by many who have spent time shooting. If you're sensitive to recoil don't shoot rounds beyond what you're comfortable with. Why would someone else shooting a round you're not comfortable with, but they are, bother you? On various forums I've seen people ridicule J.D. and others over the years. I have yet to have seen any of them make a contribution to shooting or handgun hunting. Not to mention anything that would even remotely come close to what J.D.'s contributions have been. Rather than waste energy ridiculing someone who's hard work has made them a success, put that energy into making your own contribution to the sport.
Experience is the best teacher, hunger good sauce. Osborne Russell Journal of a Trapper
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: pab1]
#188835
01/20/2018 11:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,205
KYODE
Shooting Expert
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Shooting Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,205 |
Amen lol
I don?t comprehend the neck down thing. IF you shot an encore, and you shot a 243, it is a necked down .308, as is 260 and 7-08. How can that be a bad thing?
So if a guy shoots only 9mm, 357 magnum and herret, and 444 marlin.....he is good to go?
🤔
Kentucky….no place like home.
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: KYODE]
#188836
01/20/2018 1:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,861
Franchise
Distinguished Expert
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Distinguished Expert
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,861 |
pab1....you are on point my friend..well said..JD helped provide the handgun hunter with rounds that would even put Large Dangerous game down with 1 well placed shot...not everyone wants or needs a clip or extra shots in a cylinder. JDJ was a pioneer in my type of handgun hunting
The Eyes are Useless, When The Mind Is Blind
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Re: JDJ LINEUP OF CARTRIDGES
[Re: curioushooter]
#188838
01/20/2018 3:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 920
billa
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 920 |
[quote=curioushooter]I am somewhat surprised by how upset some of you guys seem to get over really very mild criticisms of JDJ cartridges. In no way do I mean to offend! I don't really have a problem with JDJ cartridges at all
I am a bit amazed at your inconsistently. You say this and then write paragraph after paragraph of the unfounded touchy, feely issues you have with JD and his contributions to the firearms world. I doubt that too many handgunners on this site have easily obtained -pleasant and neighborly. At the top of their must have list when gun shopping. None of these are fact based, quantifiable or ever remotely relavent to most of us. I do find it offensive that you are putting J D down as a wildcatter and innovator. You obviously have only dipped your toe into this pond and I assume you know little about the man and his achievements.
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,... " Matthew 28:19
Handgun hunter since 1979 - haven't used a rifle since! HHI member #992, NRA, SCI.
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