Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Coloradoyaler]
#190612
03/18/2018 8:55 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
OP
Shootist
|
OP
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715 |
I spoke to Hornady and they recommended their XTP-MAG bullet as did Freedom Arms. Both said they?d shot plenty of buffalo with them.
I had one of the gunsmith at Freedom arms tell me the reason they quite making bullets or should I say selling them is Hornady was making a great bullets for their 454's. IE: 300 xtp Mag.
I know Freedom Arms gets ton`s of feedback from handgun hunters on how their guns and ammo they used had performed and found it interesting to read the above... I would think for a company like FA`s to make any recommendation they must done a little research into the numbers found them positive before they would commit... This does not mean the XTP is a perfect bullet because there is no such thing but for the 20 failures someone had with XTP`s...there is someone else with 20(maybe 19) successful hunts... As with people...you can find a little good in everyone if you look hard enough
Last edited by jamesfromjersey; 03/18/2018 10:11 PM.
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190613
03/18/2018 9:58 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,512
Ernie
Distinguished Master
|
Distinguished Master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,512 |
Understanding the impact velocities of "XYZ" bullet has always been important, or at least it should be! This goes for both straight wall case bullets or bullets that would be used in bottleneck cartridges. There is a velocity range of said bullet. Some are narrow and some are broad. Equally important, at least for me. Within that range (especially the broad range) the bullet will act differently. Add to that, the type of animal and what parts (Shot Placement) of said animal get hit by that same bullet will also determine what happens to it. Would I consider a different bullet if I always planned on double shoulder shots or quartering shots? In other words, Always planning on hitting bone. If, I am a lung shooter that picks his shots, can I be successful with a bullet that is not as tough as would be required for penetrating heavy bone? I am not even talking about the 300 XTP on Cape's, but rather how we approach hunting in general.
Generally speaking from what I am learning about large pigs, is that they are a tougher animal to kill than deer/antelope. The majority of guys here are deer/antelope hunters with some elk and black bear thrown in, with pigs of course. It's cool to see the bigger animals, but the majority of us don't do that on a regular basis.
Ernie the Un-Tactical
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Ernie]
#190615
03/18/2018 10:37 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 31
SacredCrows
newbie
|
newbie
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 31 |
I would venture to say the xtp is probably the most used handgun bullet for several reasons.
1. A successful marketing campaign. 2. A good dealer marketing campaign allowing the dealer to make more $ from them thus stocking more. 3. Many ammo companies using their product in ?custom? lines of ammo.
If you read around the web it?s apparent how widely used they are....no secret there.
Most people are not shooting cow type animals at point blank range at magnum velocities.
From reading many hunter reports from around the web and social media the vast majority report good results with these bullets.
But to be noted. Most of these people are hunting North American game. Hogs, deer , bear and so on.
But as seen above they also work on the big critters. Both were reported to be shot at a moderate distance allowing the bullet to slow down a touch. This is more than likely key since velocity makes or breaks a bullet upon impact.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Ernie]
#190616
03/18/2018 10:41 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
|
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836 |
It's cool to see the bigger animals, but the majority of us don't do that on a regular basis.
One must go to extremes to test the limits......
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190617
03/18/2018 10:51 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
|
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836 |
I spoke to Hornady and they recommended their XTP-MAG bullet as did Freedom Arms. Both said they?d shot plenty of buffalo with them.
I had one of the gunsmith at Freedom arms tell me the reason they quite making bullets or should I say selling them is Hornady was making a great bullets for their 454's. IE: 300 xtp Mag.
I know Freedom Arms gets ton`s of feedback from handgun hunters on how their guns and ammo they used had performed and found it interesting to read the above... I would think for a company like FA`s to make any recommendation they must done a little research into the numbers found them positive before they would commit... This does not mean the XTP is a perfect bullet because there is no such thing but for the 20 failures someone had with XTP`s...there is someone else with 20(maybe 19) successful hunts... As with people...you can find a little good in everyone if you look hard enough I would question the veracity of that claim as frankly the old FA bullets were of a much higher quality than the XTP. I?m sorry they are no longer produced. I have to call FA this week and I?ll ask them about why they no longer produce this bullet. I will bet it was a financial decision.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Whitworth]
#190619
03/18/2018 10:55 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
OP
Shootist
|
OP
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715 |
Whit, you read my mind as I was going to give them a call myself..
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: sixshot]
#190620
03/18/2018 10:56 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
|
Shooting Expert
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020 |
I agree this is one of the best threads we've ever discussed here on the forum. It shows once again that there are lots of variables in our sport & that one time a bullet can succeed & the next time it can fail, even if the animal is smaller than the one where it was successful, go figure! Maybe it's the angle, maybe the point of impact, mostly I think it goes back to velocity, just my thoughts but I'll give my reason for it. On this Buffalo hunt the first 2 shots were at 75 yds with a muzzle velocity of just over 1600 fps. Not sure of the impact velocity but you math majors can figure it pretty quick. Maybe, just maybe that had something to do with the success of those 2 shots, just my thoughts. Going back to one of Max's replies earlier on using a 400 gr hard cast at the Bovine Bash, he said it blew up on impact at close range, I'm not really surprised that it did, that's asking a lot of any bullet that's not pure copper, etc. Again, here's another maybe, what if that 400 gr hard cast had been going 200 fps slower on impact, would it have preformed better, I don't know, you guys have a lot more experience on those big animals than I do, I have no experience on them but every bullet except for the big solids has it's limits. An XTP at the muzzle might have blown up just like that hard cast but at 75 yds had slowed down to where it was within the design limits of that bullet. All of this is just asking questions, but velocity plays a factor in how a bullet fails or succeeds & this latest thread has really been a good read, I've enjoyed it very much. Dick . I think youre right. Finding out those velocity levels and what point the bullets work well in and which bullets give the most margin of error is the question i seek an answer to.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190621
03/18/2018 11:00 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
|
Shooting Expert
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020 |
I think the bovine bash was frankly always billed as a bullet test for large dangerous game. Nothing more, nothing less, but arguably using the best bullet testing media one can use.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190622
03/18/2018 11:05 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
OP
Shootist
|
OP
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715 |
Finding out those velocity levels and what point the bullets work well in and which bullets give the most margin of error is the question i seek an answer to. Mark, Sounds like you and Zee think alike
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Whitworth]
#190623
03/18/2018 11:40 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097 |
I spoke to Hornady and they recommended their XTP-MAG bullet as did Freedom Arms. Both said they?d shot plenty of buffalo with them.
I had one of the gunsmith at Freedom arms tell me the reason they quite making bullets or should I say selling them is Hornady was making a great bullets for their 454's. IE: 300 xtp Mag.
I know Freedom Arms gets ton`s of feedback from handgun hunters on how their guns and ammo they used had performed and found it interesting to read the above... I would think for a company like FA`s to make any recommendation they must done a little research into the numbers found them positive before they would commit... This does not mean the XTP is a perfect bullet because there is no such thing but for the 20 failures someone had with XTP`s...there is someone else with 20(maybe 19) successful hunts... As with people...you can find a little good in everyone if you look hard enough I would question the veracity of that claim as frankly the old FA bullets were of a much higher quality than the XTP. I?m sorry they are no longer produced. I have to call FA this week and I?ll ask them about why they no longer produce this bullet. I will bet it was a financial decision. When FA stop producing their bullets Winchester picked them up. The FA bullet had a nice flat point a jacket and a hardened core. They were very good Bullets.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jwp475]
#190624
03/19/2018 12:31 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,625
Raptortrapper
Shooting Master
|
Shooting Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,625 |
Why don't bullet makers have published recommended speeds for each species? I know its not an absolute, but wouldn't that put a template down to kinda prevent some of the bullet failures? I know there are a lot of "what ifs" in this, but after all, it is a hypothetical question.
A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
Lifetime Member of the NRA! Wish I'd a done it sooner.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Raptortrapper]
#190625
03/19/2018 1:29 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 31
SacredCrows
newbie
|
newbie
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 31 |
Why don't bullet makers have published recommended speeds for each species? I know its not an absolute, but wouldn't that put a template down to kinda prevent some of the bullet failures? I know there are a lot of "what ifs" in this, but after all, it is a hypothetical question.
Too many what ifs. And you couldn?t possibly replicate every animal in a lab. They publish or will provide recommended minimum and maximum speeds for general use.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jwp475]
#190626
03/19/2018 2:06 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821
45MAN
Pooh-Bah
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821 |
WHITWORTH: I REMEMBER FAIRLY WELL THE TIME THAT FA SOLD THEIR BULLET MAKING EQUIPMENT AND AS I RECALL IT WAS PURELY A FINANCIAL DECISION.
JWP475: I BELIEVE WINCHESTER LOADED FA BULLETS BUT NEVER MADE THEM. THAT IS WHAT I RECALL.
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jwp475]
#190627
03/19/2018 2:07 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
OP
Shootist
|
OP
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715 |
[quote=jamesfromjersey][quote=Coloradoyaler]
I spoke to Hornady and they recommended their XTP-MAG bullet as did Freedom Arms. Both said they?d shot plenty of buffalo with them.
I had one of the gunsmith at Freedom arms tell me the reason they quite making bullets or should I say selling them is Hornady was making a great bullets for their 454's. IE: 300 xtp Mag.
I have to call FA this week and I?ll ask them about why they no longer produce this bullet. I will bet it was a financial decision. When FA stop producing their bullets Winchester picked them up. There`s no doubt that FA`s made an excellent bullet but whatever the reason they stopped with their JFP is one thing because my question to Freedom Arms is: why do they recommend XTP Mag bullets on big game??
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190629
03/19/2018 2:20 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 31
SacredCrows
newbie
|
newbie
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 31 |
Well mr Baker is a fairly well accomplished handgun hunter with his products. I would put some good weight behind his recommendations.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: SacredCrows]
#190630
03/19/2018 2:47 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
OP
Shootist
|
OP
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715 |
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Whitworth]
#190631
03/19/2018 3:24 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,006
Zee
Shooting Expert
|
Shooting Expert
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,006 |
Granted there are few bullets that deliver EVERY time, but I strive to find the one that will work like it is supposed to consistently. Simple concept. Well, stand tall on that soap box and enjoy a cool glass of disappointment. Life is full of it and variables don?t help. I believe they have been searching for the magic bullet since the Kennedy Assasination. Let me know when you find it. The one that does everything you want to everything you want. We may never find it. But, the search is fun anyway.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190632
03/19/2018 3:29 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
|
Shooting Expert
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020 |
Lets not forget the big hornady/fa vs buffalo bore dust up. Then again that may be a different story for a different day but may explain a little bit of their Closeness. We can debate endlessly on whether that 300mag xtp is a good choice on game like capebuff and post examples of successes and failures of said bullet. However, one wonders when a recommendation is given on an expandable for cape buff why wouldnt someone with tons of experience mention the aframes. They may be expensive but ive never seen nor remotely heard of a failure or separation. Ive run thru large game at over 2000 fps and had em open at less than 1000.
Back in 2012 as i was planning my hunt for cape buff i had discussed bullet choices with a gentleman at freedom arms and he hadnt used an aframe before. I had talked to bob baker about shooting a bison with a 41 mag, to which he seemed a little surprised about using an aframe before my next african hunt in 2015. Im not sure if they have used em. Maybe but they didnt seem to familiar with that bullet.
Last edited by tradmark; 03/19/2018 3:38 AM.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190633
03/19/2018 4:03 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
OP
Shootist
|
OP
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715 |
Hey Mark...sounds familiar...remember "we have to re-evaluate"...
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190634
03/19/2018 4:10 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
|
Shooting Expert
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020 |
Yessir, i do, remember u used things many of the pioneers and leaders of handgun hunting hadnt yet james. Many still havent.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: SacredCrows]
#190636
03/19/2018 4:34 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,625
Raptortrapper
Shooting Master
|
Shooting Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,625 |
Why don't bullet makers have published recommended speeds for each species? I know its not an absolute, but wouldn't that put a template down to kinda prevent some of the bullet failures? I know there are a lot of "what ifs" in this, but after all, it is a hypothetical question.
Too many what ifs. And you couldn?t possibly replicate every animal in a lab. They publish or will provide recommended minimum and maximum speeds for general use. Yup, I know. That's why it was just hypothetical. But it'd be nice to have. But, as we all know and have seen evidence of, even within their recommended velocities we still have failures. Guess I was just thinking out loud...
A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
Lifetime Member of the NRA! Wish I'd a done it sooner.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190637
03/19/2018 4:42 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
OP
Shootist
|
OP
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715 |
Hey Zee.... Watch out....your experience is showing
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Zee]
#190638
03/19/2018 8:51 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
|
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836 |
Granted there are few bullets that deliver EVERY time, but I strive to find the one that will work like it is supposed to consistently. Simple concept. Well, stand tall on that soap box and enjoy a cool glass of disappointment. Life is full of it and variables don?t help. I believe they have been searching for the magic bullet since the Kennedy Assasination. Let me know when you find it. The one that does everything you want to everything you want. We may never find it. But, the search is fun anyway. I said consistent , not perfect. So far there have been a few standouts like the XPB and the A-frame on the expanding front, and we know what works on the solid front. Should we stop seeking consistent performance? What fun would that be?
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190639
03/19/2018 8:53 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836
Whitworth
Shootist
|
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,836 |
Hey Zee.... Watch out....your experience is showing Or cynicism......
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190640
03/19/2018 10:55 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,006
Zee
Shooting Expert
|
Shooting Expert
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,006 |
Hey Zee.... Watch out....your experience is showing https://youtu.be/AbekiD1yVSU
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190642
03/19/2018 4:10 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 26
jdhunt3
newbie
|
newbie
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 26 |
However, one wonders when a recommendation is given on an expandable for cape buff why wouldnt someone with tons of experience mention the aframes. My bet is that the A-Frame is "too good" of a bullet. The purpose of using the XTP-MAG was to ensure that the bullet would not exit on the offside shoulder and wound a buffalo behind the intended target. On my first buffalo, he was in a smaller isolated group of about 10 or so cows about 75 yards behind the main herd, so I could have used solids on him. The second bull was literally surrounded on all sides (including behind him) with cows, calves, and much lesser bulls. If the bullet would have penetrated, I'd have had a goat rope on my hands.
Benefactor Member NRA; Member SCI; Director, Louisiana Chapter SCI; Master Measurer, SCI; Member HHI; Director, Louisiana Shooting Association, Inc. ?One can never miss too fast.?
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jdhunt3]
#190643
03/19/2018 4:44 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818
sixshot
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818 |
I don't know the reason FA quit making bullets but I do know a few years back a guy came to visit me for a week & we went over to FA, it's only 45 minutes & he bought all the remaining stock of 45 caliber bullets they had left & they had a lot!
This same fellow had a strange experience on a goat or some type of other exotic where a bullet blew up on the shoulder using a premium bullet, not sure if it was one of the FA bullets or not, I'll find out. He just got in a bad wreck last week.
Dick
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: sixshot]
#190644
03/19/2018 4:52 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821
45MAN
Pooh-Bah
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821 |
DICK: I HAD A 300 gr FA BULLET BREAKUP ON THE POINT OF A KUDU's SHOULDER. THEY WERE VERY HARD BULLETS BUT HARD IS ALSO BRITTLE. THE SHOT SHUD HAVE BEEN A KILLER BUT THE BULLET DID NOT MAKE IT TO THE VITALS AND IT TOOK SOME TRACKING AND FOLLOW UP TO FINALLY ANCHOR HIM, AND IS ONE OF THE REASONS I GAVE UP ON THE FA BULLETS FOR BIG GAME HUNTING. THEY WORK GREAT ON WHITETAILS THOUGH AND WERE VERY ACCURATE BULLETS.
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Craig44]
#190647
03/19/2018 7:10 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
|
Shooting Expert
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020 |
I used to think that and a monolithic solid is the best bet for sure, bit ive used aframes on several and had great results.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190665
03/19/2018 7:58 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 26
jdhunt3
newbie
|
newbie
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 26 |
Several people have asked for photos of the animals taken on this safari. For those that are interested, I've started a new thread here. Mozambique Pistol Safari After Action Report
Benefactor Member NRA; Member SCI; Director, Louisiana Chapter SCI; Master Measurer, SCI; Member HHI; Director, Louisiana Shooting Association, Inc. ?One can never miss too fast.?
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jdhunt3]
#190667
03/19/2018 8:06 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 920
billa
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 920 |
Guys, This has been a great topic. I stayed out of the fray as I have never shot anything this big. Lots of experienced hunters chiming in that I respect as experts. Thanks to all for sharing and thanks to James for starting it and for dragging Jay into our group.
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,... " Matthew 28:19
Handgun hunter since 1979 - haven't used a rifle since! HHI member #992, NRA, SCI.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: billa]
#190675
03/19/2018 9:25 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
|
Shooting Expert
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020 |
Yup, great thread and inspired by a great hunt!
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: tradmark]
#190685
03/19/2018 10:57 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,625
Raptortrapper
Shooting Master
|
Shooting Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,625 |
This thread gets my vote for thread of the decade. Great stuff from those highly regarded!
A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
Lifetime Member of the NRA! Wish I'd a done it sooner.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: Raptortrapper]
#190701
03/20/2018 2:29 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 161
MrMcPorkchop
member
|
member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 161 |
This thread gets my vote for thread of the decade. Great stuff from those highly regarded! I agree, great stuff in here. Every time I would check back to the thread I had to use view all because there were new pages of comments each time I came back and refreshed! Eric
Choot em!
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: MrMcPorkchop]
#190718
03/20/2018 5:19 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818
sixshot
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818 |
Rey, I think my buddy also used a FA bullet but I'm not positive & I didn't get to call him today, we were in Salt Lake at the Cancer center all day, got home late. Not wanting to hi-jack this great thread but did want to mention that a good buddy of mine who has since passed away shot a Bison with my Ruger SRH about 15 years ago using one of my 370 gr cast bullets from a Ballisticast Mold that was about a 15 BHN. I think the load was 20 or 21 grs of 4227 so about 1000 to 1075 fps, some where in that range (guessing) The distance was about 20 yds as it was just a harvest bull about 2 years old. He shot it in the head, face on & Ron, the guy with him said it's hind legs kicked the belly so fast you could hardly see it. Ron has also passed away & he also handgunned a bull but I don't remember the details. They didn't recover either bullet but had 2 bull Bison with 2 shots. This was west of Dillon, Montana. I think if the bullet had been going faster it might have failed, just my thoughts.
Dick
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: 45MAN]
#190719
03/20/2018 5:43 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715
jamesfromjersey
OP
Shootist
|
OP
Shootist
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,715 |
DICK: I HAD A 300 gr FA BULLET BREAKUP ON THE POINT OF A KUDU's SHOULDER. THEY WERE VERY HARD BULLETS BUT HARD IS ALSO BRITTLE. THE SHOT SHUD HAVE BEEN A KILLER BUT THE BULLET DID NOT MAKE IT TO THE VITALS AND IT TOOK SOME TRACKING AND FOLLOW UP TO FINALLY ANCHOR HIM, AND IS ONE OF THE REASONS I GAVE UP ON THE FA BULLETS FOR BIG GAME HUNTING. THEY WORK GREAT ON WHITETAILS THOUGH AND WERE VERY ACCURATE BULLETS. There was a post about a year ago that covered the Freedom Arms bullets.. I posted a pic of a 260gr jfp recovered from Shiras moose that only lost 0.2gr. and could be reloaded while Gregg Richter showed one of his recoverd FA`s bullets that performed as if the lead was much softer then mine...There were changes..
Life member-NRA-SCI Member-HHI #2900-HHASA #067 Colt-Ruger-Freedom Arms-and S&W Collector Assoc.s "I have more guns then I need but not as many as I want" "Handgun hunters HAVE to be good"
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: jamesfromjersey]
#190734
03/20/2018 4:27 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 366
JDK
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 366 |
I find this whole discussion about speed fascinating. I must admit not giving it too much thought in the past. I, like many, looked for the max speed with a given bullet. Luckily, I believe the factories do a good job designing their slugs for that use. This being for typical deer/hog use. But, it opens up new options when you view it with an eye for what slowing it down will do to bullet performance. An example would be bullets designed for rapid/explosive expansion at rifle velocity performing as a nice deer/hog round when driven at slower handgun speeds. Great discussion!
John
But for the grace of God, there, I go.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: JDK]
#190736
03/20/2018 4:50 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818
sixshot
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818 |
Talked to my buddy today & it was a FA bullet from a 454 at 1900 fps MV & it blew up on the off shoulder of a Fallow deer at about 100 yds. He said it was the only FA bullet he's ever recovered.
Dick
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: sixshot]
#190739
03/20/2018 7:30 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821
45MAN
Pooh-Bah
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,821 |
DICK: AT 1,900 fps I BET IT WAS A 260gr. I SHOT A FERAL HOG WITH ONE AT A SIMILAR VELOCITY, BUT AT CLOSER RANGE, AND IT BROKE/SHEARED INTO A LOT OF LITTLE PIECES. ALTHOUGH THIS WAS A LONG TIME AGO, IT IS ONE OF THE REASONS I RECENTLY GOT FURY BULLETS TO MAKE ME SOME 260gr FP FMJ's.
"ADAPT OR DIE". I USE ALL CAPS, NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS AN OLD HABIT FROM MY ARMY DAYS, PLUS IT IS EASIER TO TYPE AND READ.
|
|
|
Re: cape buff vs XTP
[Re: 45MAN]
#190741
03/20/2018 8:32 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020
tradmark
Shooting Expert
|
Shooting Expert
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,020 |
So some never deform at all. Some blow up. Anyone ever hear of a fa bulet with nice expansion?
|
|
|
|
0 registered members (),
62
guests, and 2
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|