with the new frames that have the JT prefix on the serial number you can stoke the 45-70 up to equal the 450 or you can get both cylinders. The 45-70 brass is more plentifull and affordable but the 450 brass will last longer. I had the 7.5" 45-70 and I was running a 440 grain hardcast out at 1600+ fps and with a 2X Leupold I would avg 2-3" groups at 100yds. Hope that helps

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