thanks all for the input. i have several friends that have wives or children that have taken deer with a 223. being from tenn where the smallest you could use was a 243 this was never a issue. now living in arkansas and hunting in arkansas and missouri you can legally use a 223. i was going to load a 60gr noslar part in a 14 contender for her to try.. she has shot my 35 rem with a break and didnt like it. but she shoots a ruger GPSP101 All day day long.