OK... After swearing that I'd NEVER get involved in another type of hunting handgun EVER again I've decided to break my own rules.

I am currently a revolver hunter, semi-auto hunter, and Encore hunter (gave up Contenders).

I know that this is going to cost me but I I've decided to get my first XP-100 next year and want to know/discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the center grip vs. the rear grip models.

Also any other major issues to seek out/avoid when searching for my first XP would be useful.

How 'bout it guys?

$bob$

Great decision $bob$.

I think the center grip has an advantage in that the perceived recoil or flip from the pistol doesn't feel as severe as with the rear grip versions. It certainly doesn't come back as hard as the Encore or T/C does. A friend has a 375-284 in XP100 format that is a gem to shoot.

I stretch myself in terms of technical ability, but I am told that you should inspect the locking lugs and see that they are engaging their recesses in the receiver evenly. Another problem I encountered on one of mine was that the rear receiver and side of the action had been milled down to save weight (it was an old competition gun with a bull barrel fitted). Though this looks very sexy it is a nightmare to mount a scope.

Then of course remains that curse - What caliber???
I noticed you said "ÿour first XP100" therein lies the next problem - what caliber should the next one be?

LT

LT,

I'm pretty sure that the cartridge I'll want the first time is 6mmBR which sould necessitate a 308 sized bolt face.

I'd also, at one time or another, like to have a 6mm-284 and a 308.

This brings up another question. Can the XP-100 be set up as a switch barrel pistol just like a 700 in rifle configuration?

Thanks for the info on the grip placement. I already have a rear grip hunting handgun... My Encores... <grin>

$bob$

Switch Barrels? Certainly!
Center-grip is better suited for all-around use, whereas rear-grip has a definite advantage when it comes to bench shooting.

More later! I need to do some more Christmas shopping.

ok ernie....make sure ya tell me a lil more on the rear grip/bench thing. if i ever get an xp, that would likely be it's intended use(bench shooting). seems the rear grip are easier to find, or maybe i just see more of them.

any particular reason for bench advantage going to the rear grip?

i've heard you fellers mention that the rear grip is also weaker or sumthin maybe

$bob$,

The barrels can be switched. A good shooting friend (are there any others) turned a tool on his lathe which allows him to switch between barrels (22BR and 7BR).

Not sure, but the 284 head diameter is pretty close to that of the BR's.

I think I may have to add the 6.5-284 to my wish list for next year.

LT

If you want a rear grip for bench use the only one I would encourage you to get is one that is only sold through Bruno's Shooting supply. Contact Lester (The owner) and he will set you up. This is not a cheap set-up by the time everything is done, but it is the "best" rear grip design IMO for bench use. Will be using one of these stocks on my 6.5-284 with a Jewel trigger for the upcoming 05 "handgun class" season at Pella, IA. Cost of the stock is $289 (inletting and bedding will still need to be done).
It has a 3 inch wide fore-end. It was specifically designed for Benchrest Shooting. It may take awhile to get one (a month or so) because demand is beginning to go up with the 1k handgun class in Pella and other LR interests with specialty handguns.
The 284 Win case head is the same as the 308, 06 & BR heads.

You could even pick up an old Fireball and have the boltface opened up to 308 head size.

I like the center grip versions better personally. The rear grip guns just don't balance to suit me. You will find that the center grip gun is more difficult to shoot from the prone position due to the placement of the scope being a little too close to the eye for good relief. That was the main reason I came up with the small portable shooting platform for hunting groundhogs.

Gary,

"small portable shooting platform for hunting groundhogs"?

I don't remember seeing that... Gotta link?

Here's the one I use for all my rifle and pistil field shooting if I can get the time to set it up.
http://www.boogerbench.com/ (click on the "photos" link on the left)

$bob$

Ernie,

What I want is a gun that balances better than the Encore and is more accurate.

I want to shoot it free hand (unsupported), from improvised rests, and from my "Booger Bench" from a sandbag rest for long range varminting.

Will the center grip XP do all that or will I need one of each?

Also... Can I use my barrel vise and action wrench for my Remmy 700 on an XP?

$bob$

I struggled for years over rests that would be portable and still deliver adequate accuracy in the field when shooting varmints - especially with my XP-100. I tried bipods (couldn't see over the grass), camera tripods, shooting sticks, and a bevy of other commercially manufactured and homegrown rests. I finally solved the problem by attaching two Harris 1A2-25 bipods to the bottom of a piece of 1/2" plywood. I screwed an MTM ammo box to the top for additional elevation and I carry three small sand bags in a fanny pack. Few groundhogs escape this setup. It sets up easilly and is just the right height for shooting while seated.

LD,
With that in mind, definitely a center-grip. Near Manufacturing and Farrell Industries make extended picatinny mounts (with minutes built in if so desired). Farrell's mount is about 1/2 inch longer. This helps for prone shooting. A titanium firing pin will help reduce locktime and a McMillan or H-S Center-grip stock.
Assuming the vise and wrench will work (Don't have a switch barrel, yet). I can keep groups in 1.5 inch range @ 600 yards with my center-grip XP. If that is sufficient for your needs then I would say yes, a center-grip is enough.
But if you need an excuse to also have a rear-grip, then by all means, be fully set-up for all kinds of shooting circumstances. Rear-grips also allow you to use BR rifle triggers.

Nice setup-- hey Gary, what's that rig chambered in, and scope also-- looks like target turrets on it.? Reminds me of chuck shooting in Western MD a few years ago.

U certainly shouldn't have to worry about the ergonomics of the stock design much regarding scope selection. Even a rifle scope will work well on the BR case, with probably a full field of view no matter which scope u choose. I've missed coyotes in the past with my center grip XP 6.5-284 due to the long eye relief on those 3-12X Burris's. I'm short, so i find myself improvising more than i like to. Use to have a factory 7BR that i put a Bushnell Banner on, and never had a problem with the eye relief.

I much prefer the center grip. My custom 223 with HS stock fits my hand perfectly. I have another sitting in the safe awaiting a rework. It's a 35 Rem and it can be used for the 308 or 284 type cases. I think it will be a 6.5-284. The only real modification that needs to be done is opening the ejection port. My smith says no problem with that.

Ernie,

OK... I'm now certain that I want the center grip model. It's amazing how well yours groups. I doubt I'd be able to match that for several years as I'm fairly new to scoped handguns having bought my first one 4 years ago if you don't count a scope Super Blackhawk Hunter about 8 years ago.

How many chamberings did they make with the 308 bolt face? Are they very hard to find?

So... Other than getting one with a center grip and with a 308 bolt face is there anything else I need to look for?

Thanks,
$bob$

Steve,

How do you like the Burris 3-12 for looooong range other than the eye relief problem? I have one with the ballistic plex but it hasn't been used much yet.

I'm sure happy with my three Banner 2-6's but they wouldn't have enough magnification for long range.

Did you and Ernie ever find anyone to change the eye relief on benchrest rifle scope to your satisfaction? Seems like I remember that once upon a time you talked about that guy in Washington State doing it. Can't remember his name but I have one of his bore scopes and it's EXCELLENT!!!

*** Edit *** Just remembered his name... Wally Seibert.

$bob$

magman,

I have large hands... You mentioned that the center grip fits your hand well. Do you also have large hands?

$bob$

Gary,

The XP in your photo... Is that a rear grip or center grip model?

What brand if stock is it?

How long is the barrel?

$bob$

http://www.remington.com/aboutus/history/mxp100.htm

And check this out... Wierd...
Tricked Out XP

LD, I like my center grip XP. It's in 221 fireball, my primary woodchuck gun. The first year I had it I shot with shooting sticks or over my hat from any available rest. Then last winter I fitted an HS stock to it and use bipods and a sandbag filled with rice for rear elevation adjustment. Just squeeze the bag with your free hand or wiggle the gun down into the bag. The bipods get the barrel about 10" above the ground. It works good as long as you can be just a little higher that the grass. I have come around to Garys way of thinking that I need more height above the grass, especially when the hayfields start growing back from being cut. So this winter I plan to build a bench like his and see how that works. I also just got an encore and think the portable bench would work great with that too. The first year I used a Burris 3 to 12 pistol scope. The with the bipods and the bags being a solid rest and the 221 being of such little recoil I put a Weaver 4 to 16 rifle scope on top. It works great for the long shots.


The clips on the block of wood and the bag hook in to your belt loop for easy carrying.

My XP shown in the pics is chambered .223 from the factory with the std. 14-1/2" barrel. The stock is also a laminated version that Remington produced through the custom shop (I believe). The scope is an old 7x Burris with target turrets but that's now on my .22 Hornet and the XP is wearing a 3x12.

LD,
You will likely surprise yourself with your XP (especially if you build it for bench or tactical accuracy). I have had a number of people shoot my XP's from the bench for the first time ever and shoot groups between .4-.7 @ 100 yards.
Have a true accurcy smith build it and use good components (including loading and all the prep that goes with it) and you will have an XP that can stand toe to with most rifles & beat the majority of them.
I want to shoot a sub 9 inch group so bad @ 1k I can taste it. Something in the 6 inch range would be outstanding. I know it can be done. It is just a matter of good conditions and good bag use and form. I know the XP is capable of it. Now I need to catch up with it. The rear grip stock should help a lot. I have been seeing a lot of talk about XP's lately-sure is great!

I'll let you know what the advantages and disadvantages are of the rear-grip version. I just picked up mine and mounted a Burris Posi-loc 3 x 9 x 40 adj obj and a Harris Bi-pod. The one I picked up for $350 was bedded and has a Jewell trigger. It is sweet, and I think I got a great deal. I know that the trigger assembly alone is worth near $200 because I already own three others in my Wins and DCM rifles. I can't wait to shoot it tomorrow!!!! Right now it's a 22-250, but I really think it's going to be a heavy fluted 260 Rem, 6.5-285 or one of the short mags. I'm actually leaning toward a short mag because I can get the others in Encore configuration. I can't wait!!

LD, I too am partial to the center grip specialty pistols. Mine are of the HS Precision persuasion, Not alot of difference ( you can customize the XP's to more calibers). As far as accuracy goes they are both outstanding. This past deer season my 308 win was used to fill both my buck and doe tags. the buck was taken at 90 yds. and the doe at a remarkable 360 yds. ( both lasered distances). Good luck in your search for an XP. and be careful you may end up like the rest of us, drooling over these unique spacialty guns.
I haved added a picture of my field setup,I also use a portable bench setup very similar to Gary's.
nmhunter [url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=73154&c=539&z=1"][/url]

You may just consider the H-S pistol. It may have everything you want. It also may be cheaper to go that route (unsure but likely cheaper). Food for thought.
All depends on what you want.

I have both a rear grip XP, and a couple center grips, and i do prefer the center grip, but for the long-range stuff-- especially varmints optics are the limiying factor, for sure. If Burris would decrease that TOO long eye relief a little the 3-12X Burris would be pretty good for very long-range stuff, but it does certainly get us by for the time being. I remember when Ernie and i were on the practice line @ the ITRC this yr., a couple guys wanted to try his XP @ 500 or so, and they both made 1st shot connections on an 8" target-- so it does work OK. What we need is an IER Nightforce 4-16, or even 6.5-20X 30mm tube, with guaranteed ACCURATE, repeatable clicks, and a 12-16 MOA ballistic reticle of some sort. I'd put $1500 into a scope like that for LR comps., etc. By the way Bob-- i don't have 1 of those 20X's like Ernie-- yet.

$Bob$,

I agree with most everything already stated and can certainly not offer anything more the Xphunter and SS bring to the table. In the long range shooting crowd these two gentlemen stand out at the top in my mind. Listen to that they have to say.

My background is more toward building the damn things. Two things I highly recommend are:

Fist, no matter what stock you use, either use one with an aluminum V-Block in it or have one installed.

and the second,

Have a match quality Comp style recoil lug fitted to your handgun if you are having an XP rebarreled. I machine Holland Comp recoil lugs to fit all my customers XP-100s and the strength and stability increase is more then I can explain here. They are just flat out awsome especially with heavy recoiling handguns.

These are really one in the same thing as the V-Block system offers a much stronger surface for the recoil lug to bare agains and in the XP-100, Recoil lug baring is critical to long term consistancy.

The H-S Precision Stock is a great center grip stock, just be sure not to overtighten the action screws because you can flex the V-Block in this stock.

As far as rear and center grips, I much prefer the center for big game hunting as they are much more compact. For long range or precision shooting, the rear grip is far better, longer wheel base equals more stability, stands true in vehicles, rifles and handguns.

Caliber wise, for a first XP I would recommend something built on the 284 case. This will probably suprise Xphunter as I built myself a 6.5mm WSM which is flat out scary accurate and I will be developing 142 gr loads here soon XP. Will let you know how they do.

Still, for a first handgun, the 6.5-284 or even the 284 Win would be very hard to beat.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)

Kirby,

Good to see you here on Handgun Hunt and let me be the first to welcome you.

As far a selecting an XP are all the center grip XP's basically the same?

I see Remington mentions several models on their website at
XP History
including...
XP-100 (1963-1985)
XP-100 Varmint Special (1986-1992)
XP-100 Silhouette (1980-1994)
XP-100 Hunter (1993-1994)
XP-100 Custom (1986-1994)

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, are any/all centergrip XP's basically the same and is one as good as another if I want to restock it anyway and have it rebarreled and made into a long range shooter?

OOPS... Forgot to mention that selecting the right bolt face can be important too.

$bob$

Tigger,
Thats a nice looking set up you have. What is the barrel length. Unless the stock is longer, it looks like 10"?
HS Stock?

What bipod do you have fitted and how. I am toying with rebarrelling one of my XPs to 22 caliber and 221 Fireball is on the list of options.

LT

Amen on the potentail flexing of the V-Block. Tannel had a fit with my H-S stock for the 6.5-284 when bedding it. Ended up strengthening it so it wouldn't flex. Greg will no longer fit H-S stocks to XP's. They are a great stock, but my problem one was the proverbial straw.
50,
How much torque in your opinion should you give that action screw?
What would be the best twist rate for shooting 162-180 VLD's in a 17 inch 7mm WSM?

RSA_LT That is the factory 10" barrel. Yes that is an HS stock, with the blue spiderweb paint. The bipods are Harris S-BR (swivel benchrest). The 221 is a neat little round, I'm getting 2600 fps with a 40gr Blitzking and 2500 fps with the 50gr SPSX. Neither load is at max, but they shoot great in my gun. Over the winter I want to put a 15" barrel in 211 on it and see if I can gain a little velocity with the same loads. That and the 15" barrel would make it look better, a little more symetric.

XPhunter and SScoyote are tops in the game of long range. I'm slowly stretching out to the longer ranges. I have learned alot from them. My longest shot on a woodchuck so far is 166 yards. The longer barrel and a little heavier bullit might get me out even farther.

LD Hunter,
Walking through the history of XP-100's the .221Fireball was the original with 10 inch barrel, the ,223 was the varmint version, slightly larger barrel diameter and no sights, 7BR was the silhoutte version, 7br,708 and 35 Rem were the hunter model. This madel had a laminate stock and matte balck finish. Customshop shop had both center and rear grip versions. Calibers were .223, 22-250,.243,250 Savage, 6BR,7BR, 7-08,308,35Rem and .350 Rem Mag. The Customshop started out rebarreling factory actions and putting new wood stocks on them. Last customshop XP's left the factory in Dec of 1994. The rear grip was ressurected briefly then discontinued. Serial number designations run from the 60's a A751xxxx to the 80's when B752xxxx to the 90' B753xxxx, very early XP's only had a 4 digit serial number. The beautiful part about the customshop versions is you can send them back to Remington to rebarrel.

XP708

XP708,

Thanks... That gives me some better perspective.

$bob$

The secret of LR shooting with specialty handguns is.....there are no secrets. It is simply the basics of shooting combined with a rig capable of shooting tiny groups.
The biggest hindrance in shooting LR is doing it. You really need a partner and just go out and begin doing it. Until you go out and convice yourself there is no mystery (not a big deal) and that you can do it--and shoot well, you will probably be content @ shorter distances.
Take everything you can from the bench and tactical worlds and see if you can make it work or adapt to a specialty handgun. Steel is better in many ways (once load development is done) because you can hear and see your hits better @ LR. I would encourage people to taste success first from the bench @ LR and then go to field positions.
That is one of the goals Steve and I want to achieve in this tactical handgun hunting seminar, is to show folks how possible it is to be successful with handguns @ LR from both the field and bench.

50,
It doesn't really surprise me to see you suggest a 6.5-284 or 284 over the WSM (wel, maybe a little ).

LD Hunter, I have very large hands. But the HS stock is no problem for me. Just for golly gee hwiz though the next xp project will have a McMillan denter grip stock. The barrel channel will handle up to a 1.375 inch barrel. That's pretty impressive.

magman,
Do you have to relieve tha area where the top of your thumb knuckle rests on the stock of your shooting hand?
Mine bumps it, so I use a dremel tool and open that area up. Saves a lot of irritation to my knuckle.

284 Win. XP in "hunt mode."

XP, It has been opened up some. With the 223 it isn't bad. After 100 rounds or so, that knuckle is a little red. On a heavy recoiler though, I think that area would have to be more relieved. That is one of the reason why the next stock will be McMillan to see if that is lessened.
PS Nice Buck!!!!!

The only variations I have noticed that involved the actual receiver are some minor changes to the bolt shroud from the early handguns to the newer versions, different length bolt throws for the different calibers and some models with receiver sight mounting screw holes in the left side of the action on some models.

None of which will effect building a handgun in any way. The main difference will be price you will have to pay for the non standard XP-100 versions which can be as much as twice as expensive depending on model.

Selecting the right bolt face simply makes the job easier for your smith. My two WSM XP-100 are both built on pre '70 221 fireballs. If your going with a '06 case head, it may be easier to build the handgun but finding the original XP may take longer as well. The 221 versions are still the ones I see the most for the best price, of course opening up the bolt face will add to the cost a little.

Good Shooting!!!

Kirby Allen (50)