7-30 waters for elk

Hey guys I have a TC contender super 16 pistol and loading 140 Nosler Ballistic tips with a Leupold x4 handgun scope. Would that work for elk?

I do not have a 7-30 waters, but If I were going to use one, the Nosler Ballistic Tips would not be my first choice. I would look to a more heavily constructed bullet like a Nosler Partition, Swift A-Frame, Barnes, or at least on of the good bonded bullets out there. just my opinion

It's been done but you have to remember that the 7-30 is a relative lightweight and is not an ideal elk cartridge. If I had no choice I would use the Nosler Partition and I would keep shots under 100yds and only on a standing animal with a solid rest. I would really suggest stepping up to a larger caliber if elk is something your going to be serious about. The factory 375JDJ barrel is hard to beat for elk in a contender but the
45-70 is another good round if you keep the shots within reason. I hunt elk on a regular basis and they can be tough to bring down and even with perfect shot placement an elk can go a long way with a leaking heart or with the bullet only penetrating on lung. I love the Waters for deer but it's just really questionable on elk.

Thinking about getting a savage striker or the weatherby pistol I found one in 7mm08 and a savage striker in 308. Anyone ever wanting to sell one let my know.

I'd go for the Striker WAY before the Weatherby. Much more versatile in aftermarket support and barrel swap capabilities!! I bought a .223 Rem years ago and turned it into a 7mm-08.

Rshughart,

I would think the 7-30 marginal at best for elk - regarding the Striker/Weatherby inquiry, there's a 308 Striker in the Classifieds.

What Rod said................

rshugart,

Have a Striker in stainless, 270 WSM, with built in brake. Wrong handed for me (bolt handle on left - right handed shooter). Excellent condition. Thinking about selling. PM me if interested.

Doc

X 3 on what Rod said!

I would go with the big bore calibers in the Contender. Look at the comments Gregg R. has said about elk calibers...

I agree with rod. The 7-30 Waters is definitely light for elk.

"Would that work for elk?" Like a lucky charm! Put the bullet in the vitial and be ready to start skining.

It ain't marginal, I have a friend that took a bull Nilgai with a 10" Contender in 30-30. The Bull Nilgai has a grissle plate like a boar hog and is more difficult to penetrate than an elkk

Go for it and good luck

I agree, if you put that slug in the boiler room it should work just fine.

you can do what you want and like I said before it is capable of killing an elk but then again years ago I knew an old timer that poached for meat and he used a 22 and killed elk with head shots but I wouldn't suggest it even if it were a legal caliber. Personally I've butchered too many elk with bullets in them from earlier seasons to want to take chances, the 308 or even the 7-08 is a much better option but I prefer even bigger cartridges. The problem is that things can go wrong and you can't be sure every shot will hit the mark perfectly every time no matter how good a shot you are. Most guys that are proponents of light for animal calibers either do so because they haven't done it enough to have learned the hard lessons or because they pay guides to clean up their mess but it's different when your doing all the work and have to track a wounded elk literally for miles in elk country.

I shot a doe at 125yds with the 7-30 using 120gr ballistic tips which obviously don't hold up as well as partitions but I still didn't get a pass through on a small blacktail doe of about 80lbs but the bullet fragmented so badly from hitting the rib going in that it destroyed the vitals which is why I like it for deer. Most Rocky Mtn elk shot will go 500-700lbs whereas Roosevelts which I am primarily hunting now go to 700-1000lbs with some going to 1200lbs. A friend got a solid 600lbs of meat off a 7x7 Rosie he took bowhunting.

Hit a bull elk broadside through both lungs, at a measured 90 yards, with a 260gr partition from my 454 and I thought I missed because he showed no reaction to the hit. Thought I missed him with the 2nd shot because he again showed no reaction to the hit.
Tough animal....

Go with your apples to oranges comparisons from what others have done, but until you stand in the elk hunters boots that actually put a handgun bullet into an elk (maybe you have, I don't know) please be careful.

I absolutely agree with Rod, and also can read in to what James from Jersey is saying. Plus, many many times I have stood in the elk hunters boots that has put a handgun bullet into an elk. And witnessed many more.

The 7-30 Waters is marginal, at best, for elk, with the ballistic tip, and even with a stouter bullet like the partition, you are on thin ice unless a PERFECT HIT is made at short range. If you are a gambler, then use it, as it is probably legal, but if you want extra insurance, you will likely want to go with a bigger caliber. Just three days ago, I guided a rifle hunter, shooting a .308 rifle, for cow elk. He made a perfect heart shot on a medium size cow, at 50 yards, and she ran about 100 yards, showing no evidence of being hit, until she stopped and after another 10 seconds, acted a bit woozy. I told my hunter to hit her again which he did, and then she finally went down, thrashed a while, then died. And this is only one of dozens of elk kills I have been in on.

Just posting from real experience.

The ballistic tip is an excellent choice in the 7-30 waters. The velocity is not excessive and one does not want a super tough bullet from handgun velocities.

Elk are not armor plated nor bullet proof, it is about shot placement, not displacement. The 7-30 will have enough penetration to get the job done with proper bullet placement. The 7-30 is not a cartridge to take a shot at the south end of a north bound elk, but few are.

My elk experience.....shot a medium bull with a rifle. Range was 348yds, gun was a 30-06AI shooting 165gr Nosler Solid Base bullets at near .300 Win Mag velocities. All three rounds impacted in the rib cage and he never flinched from the first two. The last round was aimed a hair higher and took out the spine.

Several years before that I shot one with a bow. Range was 40yds, severed the jugular. It was 15 feet and fell over stone dead.

I have hunted them a few other times and been in on a few other harvests.

In my limited elk experience, as the previous poster noted, they are not arrow or bullet proof. But the problem with elk hunting is that after being hit mortally hit (w/o dropping) they may go into areas that you do not want to have to recover them. That's mainly the reason for most folks suggesting a bigger cartridge. Two holes are better than one for making a better blood trail but if that bullet can also smash up some structural bone on its way out is even better.

What you described can and does happen with any andall rounds at some point

How is it an apples to oranges comparision??

I've only been killing game with a handgun since 1970, maybe I need a bit more experience before I can have a valid opinion

2260 FPS with the 140 grain bullet is feasible at about 39000 CUP pressure. I would probably opt for a 120 grainer at2440 FPS if I were going after Elk with the 7-30 Waters


power is fine, but accuracy is final

Check this out; 688 Yard 1 SHot Elk Kill With a 243 and 105 VLD

Place the bullet where it goes and the skinning begins. Power is fine but accuracy is final

Well said, Dan.

No one here has said elk are bullet proof, jwp. As I stated, the 7-30 will work.

And the reason I said apples to oranges is that it seemed that you were comparing an elk to a bull Nilgai.

When I guide or personally hunt for elk, I just like more horsepower because I have tracked them in the black timber and blowdowns after being mortally hit, and it is just plain hard work; (and even harder packing them out) that may have been averted by a bigger gun... And yes, we lost an elk that seemed like it was hit well; it happened to be with a 30 caliber.

Of course I agree that the smaller legal calibers, (and illegal ones) including the .243 which is legal, will kill elk. They just are not my first choice. I have killed several elk (5-6?) with my 30-06 JDJ Encore; and I would say maybe that is my personal minimum caliber...

The Nilda is a tougher animal that was killed with a simular cartridge

RE: The shot with the .243 on the elk: a good shot, probably a spine shot, which is a very low percentage shot at long range.

Are you sure that the shot was not a shoulder shot?

I never thought that I would live to see the day that JWP475 recommended a "light for caliber" bullet on large game.

Very nice, Darrell!

That's awesome!

Well done Darrel

I know several that use the 120 grain in the 7-08 on Moose

Also the lower velocity of the handguns (in rifle Chambered cartridges} need the added speed of the lighter weights to expand as designed. The lower speeds will also allow for adequate penetration

Nice Darrell. I see that you wisely (IMHO) chose the Accubond, which is a tough bullet designed for deep penetration yet also expands; very similar to the Partitions which Rod and I are fond of.

My 30-06 JDJ elk were taken with either the Partition or the Accubond.

Oh really? How many is "several?" And why such a light bullet on the biggest deer species on this continent? Just to prove that it can be done?

Getting back to the "a .22 will kill... (put in whatever animal you wish... lol)"

I do not see the sense in doing that, jwp475. But if a hunter has no better choice, and it is legal, it will be done.

Not my cup of tea.

I will lock this post if it gets much more pointed in the wrong direction.

Half dozen, they seem to like the weight. the handguns chambered in rifle cartridges aren't in need of a heavy bullet in order to slow the bullet so as to not over tax from excessive velocity. The short barrel gives up enough velocity

A Nosler AccuBond is simply a bonded Ballistic Tip. No need for a premium in a contender. I shot a 308 Wichita and a contender for years and never saw the need for a heavy for caliber bullet in either

this is a hot one! lol.

I have revolvers, but if i were gonna buy a single shot to elk hunt with i would be curious about the 338 federal.

probably do a little more research on it but seems to me like it would do well. I know this won't solve the debate but just a thought lol.

I have seen 7mm 140 NBT's with an impact velocity of 2159 do a number on a bull elk.
This is the internet.
We are all hunters.
We can all get pig-headed at times.
We all have opinions.
We are still going to use what we want to use.
Lighten up everybody (that needs to hear it)
Merry Christmas!!!

Just don't be trying out that Waters on a reindeer

I've heard good things about the 338Federal in the Encore and I think it would be an excellent choice for elk. I'm getting read for my ag damage hunt, in fact the farmer called this evening to make arrangements to go to ODFW and get one of his tags in my name. There are three primary guns I will choose from, my 454 with a red dot, 300Win Mag Encore or the 458 Win Mag Encore. The 454 I'm running 300gr XTP's, 300 I've been shooting 180gr Accubonds but I'm going out tomorrow to chrono a couple of guns and test some 150 Accubonds, the 458 is the 350gr HotCor from Speer and it's the Encore I'm leaning too since it's a virgin but we'll see that will be another post. I can say among rifle hunters here in the NW corner of Oregon the two most popular calibers for Rosie's are the 30-378 and the 300RUM although you'll see a wide array but most of the guns are 308 and bigger with the vast majority being 30cal mags and bigger.

If you showed up in my elk camp with a .338 Federal, I would be all smiles! Great choice for elk!

Or it's Contender friendly twin, the .338JDJ#2. I loaned mine out to a friend that used a bonded 220gr bullet to take a 5x4 in Montana.

Settle down, Gregg, all of us kids are playing nicely together. No need to lock it down.

There you have it, experience talking. Who can argue with that

I don't recall anyone saying the 7-30 wouldn't kill an elk but like I said I shot that 80lb doe at 125 yds with the 120gr ballistic tip and weight retention was non existant and the heaviest part of the bullet was the jacket, the entire core was shattered and when the bullet hit the opposite ribcage it followed the the ribs down with out exiting. The internal damage was massive because the bigges part of the core was the size of #4 shot.

I plan to let my daughter elk hunt with a 7x57 Ruger #1 I gave her for her birthday but she will be limited to 100yds with 150 being max and I'm running 140gr Partitions for a combination of penetration and expansion. Ballisitically the 7x57 is between the 7-08 and 7-30 and is pretty much the twin of a 7-08 out of an Encore pistol. Although the gun she has is a special gun I plan to move her out of it for game larger than deer as soon as she can handle the increased recoil. I'll probably go to the 270, 280 or 30-06 next.

Rshughart,
I hunt with a friend that has a Weatherby, and he really likes it. It is a shooting machine! the bolt and silkiness of the action is something to behold, just like on the Mark V rifles

I have killed 3 elk...2 with a handgun. I use a 338-06 JDJ. Every time I walk up to a dead elk I am amazed at their size and equally amazed that a 250gr 338 bullet won't go the whole way through...I would use more gun than a 7x30.

Out of a pistol, I would start with a .308 and go up from there...that's just my opinion from the field.

Lots of valid opinions and remarks. I've never taken an Elk but hope to before long and after reading the above I'm glad I went with the 35 Whelen in my SSK Encore barrel!!

Which could clearly be a result of bullet choice and not the caliber being used. I saw a .30-30 fail to exit a bear at point-blank range yesterday, and it was clearly a function of too frangible a bullet (we found the pieces).

I'd try a different bullet if I wanted an exit. I know bullets that will not exit deer in my 338 Lapua and I also know bullets that will exit an Elk from most angles from the Lapua or win mag

It is about the bullet more so than the cartridge

Doc, sent you a PM

I bought a 7-30 Waters for my son to use for mule deer here in Nevada. I always considered it a 200 yard max proposition.

243 win 105gr amax. about a month ago

250 is yds crappy ipod pic



Taken by a friend this year, the 243 is less than a 7-30 Waters IMHO

Havn't we beaten this horse enough? I've seen deer killed with a .17 Ackley Hornet but didn't mention it...until now. Let it go.....

ALREADY!!!

When I shot that elk with the 7/30 I was actually hunting deer but had an elk tag in my pocket, just didn't expect to find elk where I was that day. I'm in Arizona for the winter & don't have my notes but I'm pretty sure I was using a Barnes X bullet When using X bullets I always drop down at least one bullet weight, they are always going to stay together & you need the added velocity to make them work, a slow X bullet can be a failure!
There are many calibers that are better for elk, they are extremely tough, I've always said they are harder to kill than moose, but I can't explain why.
A 308/309 JDJ is a much better choice because on elk the margin or error is very small.
Back in the early 70's I shot a spike bull elk with a 6mm & an 85 gr Sierra, popped him in the throat as he faced me at 90 yds & he dropped like a slaughter house steer. Young & dumb (still dumb) but it worked, doesn't make it an elk caliber.
The biggest change I've seen in the last 50 years is bullet quality, there are some outstanding bullets available to all of us & that has changed the rules somewhat. Like I've always said, put a good bullet in a good place & good things happen because you need placement & you need "penetration".
By the way, that 85 gr Sierra is a terrific bullet on deer, I'm talking about the flatbase, not the boattail.

Dick