Hunting with a Glock

I have had a few people question me about hunting with a Glock. Boys it has a short barrel and goes boom! That makes it a hunting tool. Really a stock glock in 10mm or .45 will work fine on whitetails and hogs but.............. it is hard to leave well enough alone.

The Glock I use started like as a 21SF Swat frame stock gun. Although it shot pretty good I felt limited. I know that part of handgun hunting is being intentionaly limited there are measures you can take to make things better. That was my plan for the Glock.

I read everything I could find about match set ups, componants and the cartridges that work in the 21 frame. I finally settle on the Storm Lake barrel. Its accuracy reputation was just better than the rest. The cartridge ended up being the .45 Super. A simple matter of changing barrel, rod,springs and brass and I could use many of my ACP componants. The cartridge can easily generate enough power for deer and hogs.

Next the trigger on a Glock is designed for one thing and it isn't hunting. After several trial and error things on the trigger my final set up is the Lone Wolf housing with adjustable stop, Ghost rocket connector, titanium safety plunger, siderlockt trigger and a 6lbs trigger spring. After polishing everything I have a 3# trigger that has very little overtravel and is very safe to draw from a holster in a tree stand.

When it all caome together the gun functions like a appliance and will shoot ragged holes at 25 yards. I am going to replace the sights to get a better picture for prescision shots. Recoil is quick and nasty with full power supers. It doesn't raise that much but it will eat the web of your hand up in about 50 shots.

My favorite configuration is actualy with a +p+ using the 19lbs spring. I have to used the 24lbs with the supers or will end up with a battered frame. The +p+ loads kill deer just fine and are very accurate.

My goal was a gun I could carry no matter how hard it was raining or anything else for that matter. I thing I have it perfected. Hope this answers any questions I didn't answer somewhere else. reflex264

Looks to me it works just fine. Confidence in yourself and your gun is EVERYTHING.

Reflex,

Great post. While I do not care much for Glocks, I have gone a similar path with my 1911's and the Rowland conversion (1911). I also have worked up 45 Super loads, and those certainly are capable.

I have my FA in 454 and love it to pieces, but 1911's have always been near and dear to me. If it had not been for the Rowland conversion process, I probably would also be sporting a Glock. They have come a long way with aftermarket goodies, and it sounds like you have yours set up pretty nice. I got close to buying a used Desert Eagle in 44 mag a few years ago, but just could not pull the trigger on such a "large" gun. The 1911 platform as well as the Glock sure makes for a handy gun that you can wear all day long, and still have the gitty-up you want.

Looks like all you lack is the red dot rear, low melted into the slide, with the back-up irons in front :^)

Craig

I carry my Glock a lot in a hip holster while hunting. I used it to finish off a 6-point whitetail my son shot in the spine. We thought the buck was dead, but it got up when we approached it and a 147 grain HP finished him off.

For over two years I think I followed threads about hunters using Glocks on the Glock Forum. Plenty of guys out there going to 10 mm with 6 inch barrels and such. Dedicated hunting pistols for sure. Ballistically, they say the 10 mm is easily compared to the .41 magnum. I once had a S&W 610 6" inch pre-lock. I don't know why I sold that gun. It must of been an infarct of the brain.

But, will a semiauto shoot all the bullets a revolver will? SWC, hollow points of any kind? doubt the Glocks will generate near as much ME as a revolver either.
Steve
Steve

But will the Glock shoot all the different kinds of bullets a revolver will? SWCs, hollow points, trunkiated point? Is their ME equal?
Steve
Don't get me wrong, show me it will do these things and I may go this route with you?

The important thing is will shoot the bullets that kill game just fine. One of my favorite bullets in the super is the 185 Nosler HP. We have shot them side by side with .41s, .44s and such like and they always put up a good show. Pentration is nearly as good as a 210gr JHP from a .41 mag but with a much larger wound channel. Here is a 185 next to a 210gr from a .41.


I am currently working with SWC, LFN and a LFNHP in the super. For deer and hogs out to 50 or so yards it works great. reflex264

ME is irrelevant. If the pistol is accurate and is using a bullet that will penetrate deeply, I would say he is in business. We may not care for the platform, but we cannot argue with results. JMHO.

Without trying to start the heavy/slow v. light/fast debate, I can say that it is pretty easy to get a 250 grain class bullet working in the super (or my Rowland). So no, it is not the correct platform for 300 grain class and up type bullets, but as Reflex pointed out those are not needed in every situation.

As far as I am concerned, these conversions shine less when compared to a dedicated hunting revolver/singleshot/etc, but for the hunter who perhaps carries a Glock (1911) most of the rest of the time, there is something very "shiney" about a similar platform handling more chores. Or in my case, when I am at the ranch, I could be hunting, or I could be warding off large critters or two legged types, or running a chainsaw, or clearing roads or plinking or.....

It's not about having a single perfect gun for hunting, as it is about having a perfect gun that will do more things.

Craig

Yep I like to try different things and this one is deffinately different. I have launched 255grs at 1130 and 230grs at 1350. I even read where one gent used a taurus tracker in .45 ACP shooting supers in it killed an elk. Sure I hunt with wheelguns as well but I still like to play and this is a cool toy. reflex264

As long as you are having a good time and you are successfully taking game, I think you should continue to march!

That's what it is all about. Having fun and being successful is iceing on the cake. Sometimes I just have to do something weird though. Having 800+ftlbs on tap from a Glock that shoots better than most revolvers should put a smile on a frownie face. It kills deer as good as any handgun I have ever seen including hitting them with over 2000ftlbs. It's all about the fun factor. reflex264

It's a different platform to say the least. I will not say it is not a good one as if you take the time to investigate it, the Glock site has a "cult" following for hunting. It's not a wheel gun or a single shot, it is a Glock. However, you cannot argue the point that in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing it is very good in 10mm. Additionally, you can now get a 460 Rowland Conversion for it. Many use them for deer and hogs with 6 inch barrels. No, it does not have a lot of choices as far as bullet weight goes, but many good names provide excellent ammo for it including Double Tap, and Buffalo Bore. It does have one advantage, fast followup shots. I think it is a good choice for someone interested in it and willing to practice to learn their capabilities. If it gets others handgun hunting, isn't that the point.

Which Glock site was it? Thanks, reflex264

I agree with the ME but the Glock is about on par with the SRH for being butt ugly!!!! That Glock is one serious hunter the way he's got it set up, just would prefer Reflex "thinking" with a 1911 instead of that 21SF.

The site was Glock Talk, however it was many years ago. It will require some searching for those posts. It used to be the forum called " the 10 ring".

Hey I like them too!!!!!!! Just recently had a 1911 Springfield that Charles Gatlin had worked his majic on. Talk about a shooter! I loaded up some of a load I got from a Camp Perry winner and it would throw them into a ragged hole. It departed in a 3 way trade unfortunately. Haven't worked with N350 yet but will as time allows. reflex264

Thanks. That was the one I thought. I am a memeber of the 21 club. I will look for the threads. reflex264

My first whitetail deer with a handgun was with a Glock model 35 40 s&w. The small 9 point got within 35 yards and turned broadside, I took the shot and couldn't be happier with the result. I was rifle hunting for something larger but now I have a handgun taken deer to my credit. Really the deer made my decision! Now I have 10mm's, 45lc's,44 mags and 454 casull's that are better suited for the game, but the Glock got me on the scoreboard of larger game with a handgun. MK

Ted Nugent has killed a pile of stuff with a .40 Glock. It will get it done with good shot placement. Come to think of it all cartridges need good shot placement. reflex264

Actually, he is fond of the 10mm Glock and he usually uses Double Tap ammo when he hunts with it.

Yep he moved over to the 10MM from the .40. I saw one his shows where it appeared he had pulled a 40 back out of the mothballs. Could have been some older footage though. A 10MM with double tap is pretty serious power. reflex264

Indeed!

I was trying to recall exactly how he described the gun. It was something like " a 40 caliber backstrap collector". If I aint mistaken he used a 10MM in Africa and killed a pile of stuff. reflex264

Hmmmmmm a glock is ugly... I myself never looked at hunting as a fashion show ... but then again ... im probably uglier than my glock.. lol

Glock's mammas think they are pretty!!!!!!

No... Not even their mammas think so....

Now... thats harsh even by NY standards..

Just think of it this way:
(1) You don't have to worry about how good the case hardening colors are.
(2) The bluing is never flawed.
(3) The engraving is always perfect.
(4) You can drop it in a mud puddle, sling off the excess and shoot a nice fat hog. Try that with one of those ugly Freedom arms thingys.

Glock-the most beautiful handgun in the world!!!!!!!!!

:^)

Until you wake up next to one and have to chew your arm off.......

Can't you just see John Wayne with a 21SF........Now thats class!!

What about Clint Eastwood?? A 20 with a laser......

Davy Crocket chasing down a runaway bear with a 19....

Everyone looks better with a Glock!!!!

Would you believe this was a 17 after a makeover? Beauty is skin deep.

Yes,

Beauty is skin deep, but ugly is to the bone. Beauty all to soon fades away, but ugly holds it's own.

Now that's funny right there. Laughed out loud reading it.

I love how glocks shoot and feel,

but they are like going to a bar like the Red Rooster( it use to be a college hang out) drinking a bottle of bourbon and then finding a lady to spend the night with, you wake up trying to figur how to hide what you just did or what you don't remember.

Lesson of the day it may feel good but when the booze wheres off its somthing you need a paper bag to look at.

Sorry guys may have taken that a little far, :]

I'm glad you brought this up. This past weekend my wife comments she want to take my Glock 23 and let me pick up one of my own (unless she finds one she likes better). I was leaning towards the model 22, same caliber, little longer barrel, but not too long for CCW. I found 2 extended barrels on the Lone Wolf website, one is a 6 inch and the other is a 9 inch. My only concern was not enough power. I want to hear you guys opinions.

Okie,

I think a lot might depend upon whether you handload, and/or these other barrels are either in 10mm or can get your ballistics closer to 10mm. While I do not use a 10mm, there are lots of folks who do and it absolutely has a place in hunting some large game. I think I would feel a little more "undergunned" being serious with either the 40 S&W or typical 40 ammo you might buy. I think most of that might tend to fall into the personal protection category and perhaps not have the choice of bullet or application you want.

Craig

Prior to 2000 you could not have given me a Glock and if someone would have I would have used it for trading stock. In the summer of 2000 I spent 8 weeks in Pierre SD at the Law Enforcement Training Center. During firearms week I had my eyes opened a bit regarding Glocks.

There were roughly 35 Officers shooting Glocks. During the course of that week each officer put roughly 1000 rounds through each handgun. The one thing that became very apparent is that about 90% of these officers didn't have a clue how to clean and lube a handgun but I never once saw a Glock stoppage on the line, period. Not one single hickup. I still resisted but a few years later I traded for a used Glock Gen 2 Model 21 .45 ACP.

I shot that Glock for a few years and one day round a Kimber Model BP TEN II Polymer Frame, Double Stack Magazine 1911 and traded off my Glock Gen 2 Model 21 .45 ACP. What a mistake. That Kimber wouldn't shoot a 50 round course of fire without a stoppage of some sort or another. I fought with the Kimber for a few years and literally had everything on the inside of the Kimber polished to a mirror shine but still no luck. Utlimately I got smart and ended up selling the Kimber and acquiring another Glock Model 21 .45 ACP.

Since then I have acquired two more Glock Handguns a Model 26 9mm and more recently a Model 22 .40 S&W (which I have a Storm Lake Glock Model 22 9mm Conversion Barrel for).

I too am considering converting my Glock Model 21 .45 ACP to shoot .45 Supers. I found a couple articles on what is needed and what is not, so I may well be joining the ranks of someone that hunts with a Glock. The one thing I have learned about Glocks is that they are super easy to customize and they shoot every time. No they may not be pretty to look at but when in a holster it doesn't matter.

Larry

I've shot glocks for over ten years. I competed at my club in action pistol and tactical pistol league. Glocks dont need aftermarket barrels, they shoot fine right out of the box. I shot against fellas with ed brown custom 1911s, STIs, Kimbers, and Wilson Combats, I'm not a great shooter but managed to place a few times. I shot factory rounds and didn't have any malfunctions until I started buying reloaded ammo from a local. Solved the issue by reloading my own on a Dillon 550 progressive. Id take the barrel out of the gun and drop every loaded round into the chamber to ensure function before matches. If it didnt drop all the way in it got put through a lee factory crimp die which full sizes a Loaded Round with a carbide bushing. I initiallly bought a stormlake barrel for shooting lead bullets. It has a tighter chamber than the glock barrel and gave me chambering issues but turning down the dillon crimp die or running through the lee factory crimp die stopped the problem it wasnt any more accurate than the factory glock barrel though.The cut rifling on the stormlake allows the lead bullets in a glock. And the barrel is shiny stainless steel..I carry a model 27 daily, nice compact with 11 rounds, same accurate reliable gun I shoot at matches. I have a 35 but hardly ever use it. Practice taught me effectiveness of the small gun out to 20 yds. More distance than that might not be considered defense. And there are better weapons for that.

Defensive pistol rounds are designed for defense against two legged varmints..and they are by virtue of their case capacity and bullet selection pretty limited. I would never attempt to hunt big game with even a 45 acp. 10mm is my bottom line cartridge and my only gun is a s&w 6 in. revolver. Still I think you can get better performance than that from huntig loads for 357 magnum..Revolvers have the advantage over autos they get those 180 grain plus bullets moving along 1100,1200,1300, 1400fps thats what I call a hunting load, not sub 1000 fps.

\\Hey rbebecker. The .45 Super will shoot a 230gr bullet 1300fps from a 6" barrel even though I don't do that most of the time. We have chronied .357s with 180grs out of 6" revolvers and never got close to 1400fps which my super with a 185 does with ease. The .45 Super and .460 rowland are a whole new ball of wax. reflex264

Looks like I need to find a model 20 and see if it will fit my short fat paws. The only problem is it is hard to find 10mm ammo around here. I do reload but not for an auto.

You're right reflex the Super is definitely in the magnum class of cartridge. I think the 10mm and 357 mag are pretty evenly matched though. If you go by load tables looks like the 357 has the slight edge. Of course it could be that most of the 10mm data is from shorter barrels 5" semiauto pistols , but then you would think not having a cylinder gap would help velocity. Whoa I see here 180 grain XTP with 13 grains of AA No. 9 at 1437fps from a Desert Eagle.357.but not even close to your 45 super.

Glocks are ugly and they definitly are not sexy..but my daily carry is G27. When Im in the woods theres a 44 on my belt. But glocks carry much lighter than revolvers and I would not hesitate to carry your glock in the woods, and I would probably feel comfortable hunting with it.

A 6" barrel with no venting makes a world of difference. At the top end 900fps can be reached with a .45 Super with a 6" barrel. Buffalo Bore's 255gr Super load rated at 1075fps goes 1130fps from my 6" barrel. Hadloaded 230s can hit 1350 from the 6" tube. reflex264

Funny thing about loadbooks, a member asked about loads for his S&W mod 28 for a 180 grain xtp bullet in hornady section they list 10.5 grains AA no9 as max load 1050 fps. If you flip over to the Accurate Arms table further on in the book Accurate lists 11.7 grains as starting load 11.7 grains and maxload of 13.0 grains for a velocity of 1437 fps from their 8 in. testbarrel.Who do you believe?

I see nothing wrong with Tupperware:) It is a quality product. Just kidding. There are many Glock fans around and a dedicated group using them for Deer and Hogs.

I have noticed that about loadbooks. When using them I usualy look at all possibilities first. reflex264

niece piece,o ted nugent uses his 10mm glock for hunting game too.

R,

This really explains why one source for your reloads is really never enough. IT can be enough to build safe loads, but you might find you are leaving some velocity on the table. And as you noted, you really need to study and understand what they are using for a test vehicle. And especially if they are actually pressure tested. I know Hodgdon's is great about always giving pressure.

I can tell you without hesitation that a test barrel mounted in a fixture is about a million miles away from your actual firearm where you will have handful of variables like unsupported throat, magazine feeding and all the variables of your gun fitment that have to be factored in. You have pressure that is safe for the brass. Pressure that is safe for the brass in your gun. And pressure that will not beat your gun into a pile of parts. These may or may not coincide ;^)

Craig

Exactly. reflex264

Not putting down the Glocks but here in Kansas they don't have a long enough case length in any of the rounds that you've mentioned.

FIREARMS
Centerfire rifles and handguns that are not fully automatic and that fire a bullet larger than .23 inches in diameter and that use a cartridge case that is 1.280 inches or more in length (except that elk require a bullet larger than .25 inches in diameter a cartridge case length of 1.750 or longer), while using only hard-cast solid lead, soft point, hollow point, or other expanding bullets

http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunting/Hunting-Regulations/Deer/Legal-Equipment

If the rounds were legal I know a bunch of guys who would be using them. I think its cool that people are hunting with them but here if you want to hunt big game like pronghorn or deer you need longer case lengths.

Thats why I have a variety of handguns to hunt with. Tn's revised law makes any centerfire handgun legal, even for elk!!!!! I guess TWRA expects common sense to play a part but we know there will be some crazy out there with a Raven .25ACP. reflex264

so I was cruising around youtube when I game across a video titled GLOCK Hunting-Big Game Hunting With a Glock and it really made me think of this thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr2IG6t85Jg&feature=related

That is just flat out cool. As long as proper ammo is used they get it done just fine. reflex264

Yeah the right ammo and great shot placement make a difference, they had another video posted where they went from deer hunting with their glocks to shooting nutria, if you're hitting nutria which are a smaller target its great practice, and on anther those same guys were shooting p-dogs. practice makes perfect, not to mention its fun, the nutria reminded me of shooting armadillos here. just another way to keep you familar with your equipment

We have had a couple of threads on the Warren video. What is neat about this site is that we can talk and discuss. I am not sure how the Glock forums go, but mention hunting on a 1911 forum and it is about like poking a skunk with a stick :^)

Reflex, I have only had a chance to shoot it once, but I have a new project for my 1911 45/Super/Rowland. I had a beat to death Colt S70 blue slide that I just had milled for a low mount JPoint. I installed a comped Clark 45acp barrel, and am working up more 45Super loads with it. So it is a "spare" slide and barrel to use on my SS s70 lower.

On my one outting to get the red dot roughly adjusted, it was pretty much tearing a ragged hole at 25 yards from the bench. Even with Winchester White box 45acp's ;^) Busted a few small rocks at 50 yards, and the redot is really gonna make it a fun hunting gun combo.

Craig

Sounds like a neat project. You sound like me, too many projects!!!!

As long as you are on the right part of the glock forum hunting is a normal discussion.

I just hate to limit myself to one type of handgun to hunt with. I enjoy them all. The Glock openned up a new and fun window of oppertunity. I can carry it in the rain and not worry about it while some of my handguns will never see rain. As long as proper loads are used and the distance is respected I don't see a problem with it. Any deer or hog that gets within 50 yards of me is in trouble! reflex264

I picked up a model 35 last saturday. Now my question is which ammo do I use for hogs and deer? I have looked at ballistic charts and the 155 grainers have more ft/lbs of energy. I don't reload for the autos. Which type and weight of bullet would you recommend?

I would lean toward the 180grs for more penetration. As long as you keep shot reasonable you should do just fine. Shot placement is everything when hunting with a handgun. reflex264

I have a G20 I hunt with. I have had good luck with 180 grain loads a little over 1200 fps. Double tap advertises another 100 fps and I have loading data that will match that but the accuracy was headed downhill before I got that high. Thinking of trying double taps 200 grain load for hogs. I haven't had a problem with 180's on hogs but I have only been comfortable taking ear shots on anything with thick shoulders.

I have been thinking about a G20SF with a 6" barrel. It should work great on hogs. reflex264

I always carry my glock 10mm while hunting deer in Minnesota, got a 8 point a couple years ago. I load mine with hornady 200 gr XTP's.

I see a Glock 20 in my future.

Was thinking about a conversion for my 21 too 10mm.

Give the .460 Rowland a look also. Nearly 1000ftlbs and everyone I know of that used the real Rowland conversion says they are super accurate and run perfectly. reflex264

I have a 6" barrel for my G20 on the way. Just this afternoon I mounted a J Point sight into the rear sight slot. Nice package. Can't wait to finalize sighting in with the 6" barrel. This was to be a backup piece, however it may be nice to use in a tree stand in 50 yards or less. Easy to attach a simple lanyard also. Mingokid.

Mingo,

I switched my Leupold Delta Point onto my low mount 1911 for this hunting season, as I really like the view through the glass better than the JPoint. But the Jpoint certainly has a smaller and crisper dot for me. Decisions decisions... But your are correct, a micro-dot on the back of a handgun really does not alter the carrying in any real bad way.

I think a lot of us are awaiting the big brown truck right now. Good luck waiting....

Craig

I'm a big fan of Glock pistol. Reliable and accurate. My 9mm stays in the 10 ring at 50 which is better than many of the revolvers I've used. The idea of getting a G21 and converting to 460 Rowland has appeal.

Reflex mentioned "real Rowland conversions". Not knowing the in and outs of Rowland issues, can you explain what are "real" conversions and who does them.

From what I've read, you're limited to projectiles with a max weight of 250grains. How well will those weights work on big game such as Elk, bear etc and large sized boars (especially those with heavy cartilage in the shoulder/chest area?

Hunter,

I am not sure exactly what Reflex means as it relates to the Glock, but in a 1911 there are things that need to be done to the gun to really do a proper conversion. This assumes you are using a proper conversion unit.

As to the bullets, I can tell you that while 250 may not technically be the max weight, once you go beyond 230 grain ACP bullets, you are using what are essentially 45 Colt or 454 casull bullets usually sized at .452. As such there become limitations as to what your gun/chamber can take as they relate to pressure and seating of the bullets.

As to what will work, it is really hard to find a lot of "results" by folks with the heavier bullets when you search by Rowland. As such, you basically need to see how the folks are doing running medium warm 45 Colt loads. 250's at 1000-1100 fps and similar. Most Rowland users seem to like the 230 XTP, and you can usually find more info out on how this bullet is working.

You have to be very selective on the bullet choice, because the Rowland runs way faster than an ACP, but way slower than a 454 Casull. So may of the bullets like the Hornady line of XTP's may or may not work as designed. Their Mag line in XTP's do not open as dramatically as there non-magnum line (i.e. 250 XTP v. 240 XTP mag).

I do not have any real world animal results with my Rowland, as I am only getting serious this year with hunting with mine. I have wet print tested a lot of bullets, so I can give you some paper ideas (I know hate on me ;)). And keeping in mind that there is a difference between hunting with a bullet, and perhaps having one for defense.

In the cast, all of the usual suspect 45 Colt bullets make big deep holes. These are the hard cast 250-255 typical swc to lbt type bullets. Lots of meplat. beartooth has a 225 TC hardcast that has a slightly smaller meplat, but it penetrates a lot further than the XTPs in print. You can find a lot of info on results from folks using these type of bullets. I have found that the 230, 240 Mag and 250 non-mag seem to penetrate to similar depths in paper, the difference being some jacket separation with the 230 and 250, where as the 240 mag is a little smaller in size but no separation.

I have never hunted a hog, but based on my testing and looking at pictures of their shoulder areas, I think I would tend to the hard cast heavier weights. If I were hunting with an XTP type bullet, I think I would be very picky about shots, and try and avoid skeletal structure of any critter. Beyond that, you start to get into the old cast v. jacket discussions. I do feel very confident that with a proper jacketed bullet, a broadside shot on any 4 legged critter (perhaps this side of moose or serious sized bear) will reach the heart lungs as long as you can avoid big bones.

This window of handgun hunting (1911's and Glocks) is pretty narrow, so you really have to scour for info, and you will probably have to be a good handloader, and bullet tester. Folks like to say the Rowland is similar to a 44 mag. It is on paper, at the low end of the 44 mag. A more realistic thought approach is that the Rowland is more like the 10mm.

Craig

I was refering to the "homemade" as I call them Rowland conversions on G21 glocks. You will find several people have done it just be reaming a barrel deep then sticking bigger springs in the gun. As far as I am concerned this is an accident waiting to happen. Rowland heat treats his barrels then uses a combination of springs and a comp to get the slide speed correct.

As far as bullets go I searched before and found lots of gents hunting with supers and Rowlands. When I get time I will search a post some links.

Buffalo Bore factory .460 ammo sends a 255 out the barrel at 1300fps. That will kill a elk or bear no problem. I am still working on the cast bullet thing to figure out which bullet I am going to cast for the super---when I get time. Right now a hard cast 230gr truncated cone looks to be about right.

Buffalo Bore factory .45 Super ammo with the 255gr goes 1130fps from my converted Glock. That would kill any hog on the planet. reflex264

460 Rowland comparable to 10mm Auto, no. 460 Rowland comparable to 10mm Magnum, yes. 41 Rem mag, yes. 44 auto mag, yes. Short barreled 240 gr 44 rem mag, yes.

Moving 230 gr slugs at 1300 is nothing to laugh at. 185's at 1550 is out of 10mm auto territory.

Humphrey,

I was simply trying to help Hunter with his research on bullets and use with my comparison. It will be easier to find posts and info with folks using the 10mm for hunting than folks using the other rounds you noted, or even the short barreled 44 mag ;^). I do not know if the Glock forums are like the 1911 forums, but I see more mention of the Rowland as an alternative to the 10mm in those type of 10mm threads. In terms of autoloading hunting popularity, right now the 10mm is where the haps are

Both Glocks and the 1911 platform have one thing in common as far as a hunting semi-auto, they are relatively inexpensive. Either one can be stepped into for $800 bucks and be taking North American game with ease. On both the 10mm auto is the popular choice for the more high powered offerings as it is readily available. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get 10mm ammo at walmart. 460 Rowland not so much. Is the extra power worth the extra hassle of the Rowland, oh yes!

Yep a 10MM will handle most situations just fine but having the extra UMPHHHH of the Rowland would be nice in a lot of situations. The 230gr unicore bullet from the Rowland would probably handle elk just fine. The only time I think muzzle energy is critical is when you are using some of the energy to damage the bullet in order for it to do its job. This is where I believe the Rowland and even the super with a 6" barrel win the battle. reflex264

Just to stir things up a little, I am working with a 45 Super pressing it to low Rowland range on my 1911. I have a ton of experience with this, and my barrel is Clark compensated on a gun set up for the Rowland. The gun has been modified extensively, my chamber has more case head support than all of my Rowlands, and I have tested the Starline 45 Super brass for this type of experimenting.

The "stink" is right now I am testing the Barnes 185 Tax-Xpb bullet. Is is way lighter than I typically like, but I have had so much good experience with Barnes in rifle bullets which are also usually light for caliber. I have already left the 10mm and 45+p in the rear window. An interesting thing I am seeing is that the comp really seems to be coming into its own with the lighter bullet. I have worked with 250's and 230's in the Rowland and Super, and granted heavier bullets will recoil more, but these 185's are extremely easy to shoot.

Barnes told me there is no upper end to velocity with this bullet, so I obviously need to do some testing on this part of it, but I am finding my results interesting to say the least.

And as these are sized .451 I am not seeing the pressure issues using .452 jacketed Colt 45 bullets. With the .452 jacketed bullets, I am definately seeing what look to be limitations with the throat/leade of the Rowland and Super barrels that I have tested in my 1911's.

Craig

Keep us posted. That sounds very interesting. I find with my non-ported super barrel I am already at low level .460 Velocities. I can get 185 Noslers out at 1450fps from the 6" tube. Buffalo bore 255grs go 1130fps from that barrel. reflex264

To update,

It looks like 1375ish is about my top end with the Barnes 185. I can get the Nosler 230 FMJFP and the 230 XTP up to 1200 safely in my gun. Again, my gun is a 1911, set up for the Rowland and I am using a compensated barrel.

The interesting thing is I did some extreme penetration testing, in dry pack paper. This is usually considered pretty hard on bullets. The FMJFP managed to get through about 6 inches, and was behind the pack, at the base of the tree. Not a fmj pencil type hole in the paper at all. The XTP did not make it through the paper, and the core and jacket had separated. The 185 Barnes cut an extremely wide hole through the paper, and went into the tree. I had a ton of confetti to pick up, as the Barnes acted just like a very large hole punch, cutting a wide reverse cone shape all the way through and on into the tree. I have done a fair amount of wet and dry bullet testing over the years, and I definately had "wow, that is very interesting" moment. Hey Reflex, wanna loan me your Bufallo

Good testing. I also loaded some 200grXTP which are supposed to be much tougher than the 230grs. From the 6" barrel I should be around 1400fps. I am going to have to give the barnes a try. reflex264

Intersesting on the reports of the 200. In looking at the velocity performance chart from Hornady, the 200 has the lowest velocity window (700 fps) of all of the acp bullets. So one might conclude it has the thinner jacket design. But it is rated the same as the 230 at the top, 1250 so maybe the jacket is designed thinner at the nose and thicker near the bottem (relatively speaking). If the nose area gets folded back quicker, I could see where this might enhance penetration.

If you do try the Barnes, prepare yourself for one surprise. The base of the bullet is a few thou narrower than the widest spot at the crimp area. You will need some cases that have almost no flare. If you flare a case for a nominal .451 type bullet, when you drop the barnes in, it will "fall" in a pretty long distance ;^) In all my years of reloading, I have never seen a bullet with this type of taper ;^) I checked boxes that I got from a couple of different sources, and they are all this way. But no problems with neck tension and bullet setback. I am using an OAL of 1.235, and they feed like butter in my Colt.

Craig

Good to know on the barnes. I can see how that can be helpful in the thick super brass. I read several reports from various shooters that all said the 200XTP seemed tougher. I won't know for sure till I drop the hammer on them. At 1400 they will probably grenade. reflex264

I chronied the 185 Unicore today. They are running 1350fps and I can keep shots touching at 25 yards offhand. Point of impact is 3" left of the 185 Nosler. Std deviation was 1fps! extreme spread wwas 2fps! reflex264

Shot the 185 unicore off of bags at 50 yards. 2" groups with the glock sights. Bullets hold together just fine. The 230gr unicore shot 3" at 50 yards. The 255 cast shot 3" as well and the point of impact was right on the sights. reflex264

The 200xtp at the super velocities doesn't appear to be tough enough. I wonder if the fellers that talked about them being tougher had them up to warp speed. reflex264

Reflex,

My guess would be no. As I noted earlier, that bullet is designed (according to Hornady) to open at 700 fps. maybe the reports are from folks hitting critters at slightly longer range, where you would not be taxing the construction quite so badly.

Thanks for the reports on the other bullets. I have decided to use my 230 XTP's this year. I do have the Barnes 185's cooking right along, but the accuracy part needs a lot more testing. I am not sure if it is just my load, or copper build-up, but from a clean barrel they start to group nicely, then seem to go to heck within a handful of shots. If I cannot get them to where I want for hunting, I know I will keep a bunch loaded for my rural personal protection. I do like the idea of having a few bullet choices for different needs.

Craig

I am going to test 240 Sierras, The 185 Barnes tac and the 225 Bearthooth this comming week. Making a couple more mods to the gun. Dawson sights, adjustable rear with fiber optic front and a beavertail. reflex264

Reflex,

If it were not for the comp on my 1911, I would absolutely be running the 225 Beartooth. I do not have problems with lead on the ports per se, but the area between the crown and the comp threads is a pain to clean ;^)

In my testing with a lot of bullets in my Rowland, the Beartooth 225 really penetrated well in my wet print testing. And the hole through the wet print was very nice looking. The flat nose, while not as nice as a WFN or LFN does make a reasonable sized hole in wet paper. Never had any significant leading issue at all, even though the amount of lube looks a little "light". I bet you are going to like this bullet.

Along the same lines, right now the most accurate bullet I am finding in my Super testing is the Nosler 230 FMJ FP. It actually shoots better than the XTP's. But, technically it might be illegal to hunt with as it is a FMJ. Second but, the base is exposed so perhaps not technically FULL metal jacket. Third but, it is almost identical to the Beartooth 225 in profile and shape. It is an fmj, but in my hard pack, it penetrated very well, and the flat dose does move some material. It is a long way from ball, and will likley be in my gun when I am thinking bear defense. I need to do a bit more testing with it, to see how the core holds up. What I need is for someone to slap the Nosler jacket on the Beartooth bullet ;^) Flat nose, hard core and jacketed.....

Craig

Yep the beartooth looks very promising. I found where several have killed elk with it and got complete penetration and good wound channels.
reflex264

Have you seen this bullet? I was already thinking about ordering them when I found out Rowland is loading the new 230gr Unicore bonded bullet.

http://www.nosler.com/Bullets/Sporting-Handgun-Pistol.aspx

Reflex,

I think your link is to the bullet I described by Nosler. In the link, when you choose caliber, only one bullet comes up, the 230 FMJ I noted above. Not sure they make a HP in 230 at .451 diameter. Maybe I am not seeing it. Interesting about the unicore. It would all be so much easier if the only thing I hunted was whitetail. But my deer are a tad bigger. And we have pesky black bears at the ranch ;^)

Craig

If you order #44922 you get the new jacketed hollow point 230. reflex264

ps-I have read that seperations have occured at 1200fps.

I got the Dawson sights installed this weekend in between hunting with the kiddies. They are awesome! I have it with the factory barrel right beside me. I may tale a pic and post it shortly. reflex264

Before:

After

way before

How does the recoil of the 10mm and the Rowland compare to a 44 mag revolver?

The Rowland with their comp kicks like a 9mm or less. The 10mm feels like a stiff .357 to me. The comp really works. reflex264

The comp makes all the difference on the 1911 platform as well. I shot one barrel without the comp until the lower lugs failed on the barrel, and the recoil was more like a 357 out of one of the tiny revolvers. Lots of whip. With comp, you can feel the concussion, but it is very linear back into the wrist and arm.

Craig

I built up a Glock Longslide with a Trijicon RMR on the slide this 6" gun plus compensator will shoot very and 200 grain WFN hardcast bullets are running at 1285 FPS . That combination is deadly on any game up to and including elk.

Then pop the slide put the factory one on and I have defensive gun.

The loan wolf barrel HS tight chamber and really helps with these stout loads and accuracy the long slide assembly also helps with recoil more of push than snap.

I know this post is old.... but great info on your evolution of the hunting Glock reflex24.

Was wondering... how many rounds do you have through your 21 and have you experienced any breakage?

No breakage and probably 7000-8000 as a super and 5000-6000 as a .460.

Thats exactly the answer I was hoping for...


Much thanks