454 casull with 460 brass

Haven't posted here in a long while but pop in a read a awhile when I can. I'm interested in potentially using cut down 460 brass in my 454 to get away from using the small rifle primer if I can. I've had a couple failures in the past with primer ignition (I think it was the gun spring-wise in all fairness) and would like to think that there is potentially greater reliability to be had using the LPP or LMPP. I'm sure someone on here has tried this and I would think with success?
I would think that if the 460 can operate safely with one given the pressures that the 454 can do the same easily. I don't like the thought of cutting primer pockets either. I'm all set there. Too much BS. Most 454 loads today never see the 65k pressures anyway to have to worry about the primer popping. I don't load that high since I like to keep the bullets in the gun until I pull the trigger for said round. Bullet that jump crimp are no fun IMO. How come no one makes the 454 brass with PP size pockets now that I think about it... I'm sure people would buy them and not go back to the SRP. Rambling over.
Thanks in advance!

Lucien,I have been doing a little research on the 454 Casull, I plan on buying one in the near future,the data that I have been looking at uses a Remington 7.5 small rifle bench rest primer, they are hotter than a standard small rifle primer, that"s a lot of brass to trim, good luck.

Yup, that is true. Lots of trimming. I use CCI BR primers now too. They seem much better and hotter. My thoughts on the 460 brass really would only be used when fishing in Alaska. So if I have to trim 20 or so, I'm good.

And racksmasher, having owed three of them I can say that they are a lot of fun as well as practical. My "pug" SRH is violent with 395 grainers and the original ruger grips but after the first 10 rounds your hand is numb anyway so you can't really feel it going off anymore. Seriously though, they are interesting and I can also say that they are versatile and when cut down make a nice carry piece. I'm referring to the SRH by the way. A big single action might look a bit stupid with a 2.75" barrel. Just saying. Buy one. You'll have fun with it.

I've never had a single primer failure in the Casull. I mainly use rem 7.5 and started years ago with CCI mag primers, again, no issues. I would look at springs and not change the brass. Seeing that you are using the SRH, I would be that is your problem, ESPECIALLY if anyone has swapped out a spring to try and get a better trigger pull. Always leave a heavy hammer spring in there and work with the other springs. You need that heavy spring to give it a consistent pop to the primer. Faster lock time as well which is never bad. That's a pretty common problem with changing those springs on the Big Reg even in the 44 mag guns. If your load was a decent one, I would look and see if you had any primer extrusion. If the hammer isn't there during the detonation, the primer can try to work back into the firing pin area and will leave marks sometimes on the primers.

I'm not sure if you are aware of the history of the 454, but in the early days, the 454 brass did have a large primer but with the high pressures, they moved it to a small primer over time What they found is that with the large primers, the primer pockets were stretching prematurely. So, they went with the smaller primer to have less area for the pressure to work against and it has worked great. I would think if the large primer was best for this cartridge, they would have stuck with it in the Casull. Not to say that using 460 brass won't work but why reinvent the wheel when what is there works so well for so long with incredible accuracy. I've used my Casull in the heat of the summer in MS in 120 degree heat as well as the extreme cold days in the Midwest with the ammo sitting in -15 degree weather for hours and it still fires off everytime I ask it to. If you look through James pics, I think he has posted pics of the early NAA brass that was both large and then even one with the bushing installed to hold the small primer.

Here is a link I found:
http://www.handgunhunt.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/119707/page/1

On the bullets jumping crimp...You need to seat and crimp in two steps. I shoot mainly one load from my FA. its a 260 grain slug at 1900+fps. I also shoot the 300 grain slug at about 1650fps. Neither have ever jumped crimp in over 13,000 rounds over the last ten years. Once you get the crimp figured out, you should never have that problem again. I haven't ever had a bullet jump on any of my guns, including the 475s and 500 linebaughs. When I load those, no matter if its the usual 1150 fps load or the dinosaur killers, I use the same two step process that I found worked so well in the Casull many years ago and have yet to have a problem.

If you think it's a spring issue, why not see if you can fix that first?

It seems possible you could cut down 460 brass, but the rim diameter and thickness have somewhat different dimensions than the 454 case. Whether those differences are enough that they might cause issues, I have no idea. You would still probably need a 460 shell holder, though.

I'm glad you've had such good luck with the casull... I have too for two out of three guns. I carry one of mine for personal protection I like it so well and I trust the round and the weapon. I just thought that there might be a way to enhance it even just a tad more without using the 45 colt in it. Not that there is anything wrong witht the colt load at all. I have a custom bisley in 45 colt as a matter of fact.
All good stuff and thanks for the heads up on the springs. I have also spoken to Hamilton Bowen about the issues I've had in the past with the casull and I was told that the rugers at one time had an issue with the hammer face that contacts the frame, above the transfer bar, has at times been too long and when the trigger is pulled no matter the spring poundage the hammer never fully contacts with all its force, the firing spring and can cause light strikes of the primer. I thought that was interesting.

I am not sure about the rim dimensions as I don't own a 460 and don't plan too. Damn things are huge! I just figured that there might be another option. But I do like the casull as it is.

Glenn, I do crimp in two steps and I use a lee factory crimp die. It works great. My point was that the casull is rated to run at 65k pressure but no one loads to that very often. I've not really even see data for 65k loads. Most seem to run in the 50's. I did have crimp jump once through, I was messing around and loaded some mid range loads using xtps for the 45 auto with no crimp band just for the hell of it. Yup, that screwed things up. I kinda knew it would but I wanted to see how long it would take. Two shots. Done.

There are times that the hammers/transfer bars needed a little tweaking. I've seen that on two of my personal ones, very easy fix with a file

I've never used either of those two powders. I always seem to wind up with trail is, h110 or 4227. Do you prefer one or the other between unique and 231 or six of one...

either, they are pretty close to each other in my shooting.

GS

Change the mainspring in that gun and use Rem. 7 1/2 primers.

Lucian--The easiest way to test your ammo would to shoot some of it in ''another gun''..A brand other than a RedHawk. Maybe a 460 SW XVR or maybe a TC in 460SW

Could try some small pistol mag primers since you aren't pushing the envelope with pressure. I'm surprised that any small rifle primer would be that hard to ignite. I'd beef up the hammer spring a pound or two just for peace of mind. I tried a 9 in my GeeP and had a few light strikes so moved up to a 10 and it has fired every time and the trigger is still sweet. I'd hate to lose the buck of a lifetime because of a light hammer strike. Or worse yet, have critter charge and gun go click......

I too would try different springs, I have never had a small rifle primer fail to ignite in close to 4000 rounds, most through a Super Redhawk.

I swapped out the springs and thigs seen right now. I think that they were buggered with at some point. Thanks for the responses, all. I thought it was the hardness difference in the primer types.

I recently had some hard primers and had 3 failure to fire from a srh. Adjust spring and no more. Btw, only 3 fails in over 50k total round s over 20 years from a 454

Another thing to check is whether you've seated the primers completely. I've encountered a few instances of primers not going off during the first hit. If the misfires went off with a second primer strike, that may be the issue.