Do SWC leave a blood trail?

Been reading some on the internet that SWC don't leave good blood trails. I also have read that most hollow points don't expand, and the same with soft point... Seems like everyone says something different then the next guy.

I have had some bad experiences with too heavy of bullets in rifles never expanding and deer running hundreds of years. Is this the same with handguns? I really want to try SWC's but I cant get the idea out of my head that they wont expand and wont leave blood and the deer will run 100+ yards. has anyone experienced this?

If your goal is a blood trail keep in mind that most blood comes from the exit wound or the nostrils of a lung shot animal. Use a big enough round and a heavy bullet to realistically expect an exit wound. If the bullet is poorly placed or it does not exit you may get little or no blood. I strongly prefer a large caliber pass thru in any situation with any animal.
Getting back to your original point. It is likely that a poorly placed SWC that stays in the animal will not have much blood.

Second- a deer shot through the heart / lung area with any bullet could run 100+ yards even with a perfect shot. I never expect a DRT (dead right there) shot. If you want to anchor a deer you need to spine them or break both shoulders. Thats really hard on the meat supply.

On the subject of hollow points expanding. I have used 240 grain XTPs in a 44 magnum and muzzleloaders to take quite a few deer. And when pushed at magnum level velocities they always seem to expand.

SWC's and LBT's don't have to expand to be effective. We actually prefer they don't most the time. The flat nose produces an impressive wound channel and usually exits. So yes, cast bullets leave a blood trail, albeit a short one.

Best response I've read on this subject. Thank you.

Scott

A lot depends on the meplat, or frontal area, of the bullet. The wider the meplat, the more damage is likely to be done. If the bullet has a narrow frontal area it may pass through with little damage if not placed well, and not leave a very good blood trail. For thin skinned game like deer I prefer a good JHP, like the XTP, and place it in the boiler room. There is a lot of good sausage meat on the shoulders and I hate to waste any of it.

I agree!

My exact sentiments.

So why do you perfer the xtp for deer? So if you have a bullet with a wide meplat what advantage does the xtp have over it? Why did you say you would hate to ruin the shoulder meat? Does this mean you should try to hit a shoulder with a SWC and not take a broadside double lung (bow shot) ???

The XTP expands significantly, nearly 150%, when pushed fairly hard and all that frontal area raises holy hell on the internal organs of a deer @ 1,300 fps mv. A hard cast bullet remains the same unless it hits bone, regardless of velocity so I would want as large of frontal area as I could get if the vitals are the target area. I don't concern myself with an exit and more times than not you won't get one with an XTP, but the damage is done and they don't go far. A hard cast bullet will pass through more often than not, but if it is a pointy bullet it may not do much damage along the way. If using a cast bullet I'd want it to be heavy for caliber and will try to anchor them with a high shoulder shot.

I like expanding bullets myself. I have taken a lot of game with a handgun and I have never lost an animal if I did my part. I have lost several deer with buckshot, but that is when I was a kid. Where you place the bullet is by far more important.

SWC's don't leave a blood trail? JHP's don't expand? Baloney to both. Find different sources for info. You have found lots of truth above.

Very true, however when I was a kid my dad shot a doe (double lung) with a 30-30 using 170's Winchester factory ammo, she ran over 450 yards, the bullet never expanded. If he has used 150 grain bullets she probably wouldn't have made it 50 yards.

Thank you, so I'm taking that in your opinion SWC's especially ones with narrow meplats require breaking the shoulder to put them down quick because they tend to not do much damage because they do not expand.

If my only choice is a SWC I would attempt to imobilize with a high shoulder shot. Given a choice I would prefer an expanding bullet like the XTP, and target the vitals. JMHO

No. Breaking the shoulder usually results in a quicker kill, regardless of what is being used. The SWC or LBT gives you the option of being able to both break a shoulder and push through the vitals before exiting. Hit the shoulder with a JHP and odds are good that it won't penetrate much further. Revolvers don't have a surplus of velocity to work with. What we have are choices between different compromises. A jacketed soft or hollowpoint causes greater tissue destruction but a shallower wound channel. A somewhat narrower wound channel with an almost guaranteed exit. Pick your poison. IMHO, the LBT is the best of all because it not only holds its shape while it penetrates deeply and breaks heavy bones but it also produces an impressive wound channel. The cast bullet also gives you the option of taking a shot from any angle. You don't have to pass on the trophy of a lifetime because he doesn't give you the picture perfect broadside shot.

Ok so if you shot a deer with a WFN, picture perfect broadside double lung bowhunting shot, hit no bones except maybe a rib or two, would you expect a blood trail that you could actually follow.

And what about the same shot with a Keith SWC?

Absolutely. A WFN (a real WFN) will make a hole larger than the bullet diameter. If we are talking about a true Keith bullet, then the meplat isn't very big. The meplat determines the size of the wound channel.

So if it's all about a wide meplat, why not use a wadcutter, it's meplat is wider then a WFN...

I don't mean to be dense, I'm sorry, this all just goes against everything I have ever known about hunting bullets...

I think Sam86 poses a very good question. If it's all about a wide meplat, why not use a wadcutter?

would this bullet be a great choice for deer?

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_77&products_id=216

according to beartooths permanent wound channel calculator a bullet with a .430 meplat (what it is with a wadcutter) striking at 1,200 fps would have a wound channel of 1.29" and should be good for elk and moose.

A true WFN nose profile is about as big as practical. Wadcutters just have too much frontal area that inhibits their ability to penetrate. Remember their original function was to cut a clean hole through paper. A lot a R&D went into LBT's bullet designs. I would suggest picking up a copy of Veral Smith's book as it goes deeply into bullet design and is very educational.

Let's make this very simple...hit the vitals...destroy the vitals....dead deer...any well constructed bullet expanding or solid through the heart, within range, will work...and work well. The bigger the hole, even better. Keep in mind a 180 gr JHP from a 357 Mag works great on deer. For larger game this becomes even more important. Still, match the bullet to the game, destroy the vitals, and you will be successful.

Firstly, wadcutters don't fly very well beyond 50yds. They're designed for a purpose and that purpose is cutting clean holes in paper at ranges 50yds and under. Although they do make a great small game bullet for those that use .32's and .38'. Beyond 50yds they become unstable and eventually tumble.

A bullet that doesn't fly well won't penetrate well either. Veral Smith optimized the nose shape of his LBT bullets for straight line penetration, a broad wound channel and accuracy. If a wadcutter did all those things well, we'd be using them. As was stated, the WFN is about as good as cast bullets get.





Yes to both.

Yup. I have always felt that deer aren't really that hard to kill -- yes, they have a strong will to live, but they are rather narrowly and lightly constructed.

ok well I'm going to stop thinking about it.

I'm going to buy some 255gr WFNPB LBT cast bullets and load them up to 1,200 - 1,400 fps and shoot a deer.

Thanks

You will be fine with that decision! Good luck hunting! Kill a big one!

Sounds like a plan!