XTP Jacket Separation - 44 Mag

Need some help on reloads.

The last two large (300+) hogs I shot with a SRH in 44 Mag. 240gr XTP with 23.5gr H110. I'm guessing 14-1500fps.

Both hogs were one-shot stops. First was a spine shot, second through the heart. Spine shot at less than 20 yards, heart shot at less than 50 yards. In both hogs, the jacket separated from the lead core. The jacket was recovered in the hog, the lead core was not recovered. Spine shot was not through, but down from a tree stand, no visible exit wound. Heart shot pig had a nice big hole on the exit side, I'm assuming from the lead core.

Am I loading too fast or not fast enough? Is it really a problem that the jacket separated (on pigs)? Both were one-shot kills, spine shot obviously dropped instantly, heart shot ran about 50 yards with a destroyed heart.

My first hog kill was about a 200lb hog, relatively same load with Nosler bonded. The bonded did not expand, but was recovered in the hog.

Obviously, the bullet "worked" in all cases, but if I want to hunt larger dangerous game (buffalo, bear, etc.) is it acceptable to stick with my load and the XTP?

I want to go to hard cast eventually, but do I really have a problem with jacket separation, and is it user error???

no, the 240 xtp is in my experience unreliable. you can use the 300xtp but it won't expand much but will be reliable under 1100 or so fps. i would really try the swift aframe. i use the 280gr out of 44 mag. it give reliable expansion, good velocity and i've never had one fail, ever. used the 325gr 454 on cape buffalo and lion. a bit pricier but use the xtps as practice ammo and use the aframe for hunting, comes in 240, 280, and 300 in 44mag bullets.

I have loaded the 300 gr XTP in my 44 Mag Ruger Super Redhawk with 23.5 gr of Win 296....in every situation I've had jacket & core seperation. According to Hornady I'm loading it with 4.5 gr's of too much powder. This is a custom load only for the Redhawk and Super Redhawk. The Swift and Speer bullets would be my choice.

They're not what I would call a premium bullet, but I think the 300 grain unit is a better bullet than the 240. JMHO.

Mark is right - you're using the wrong bullet. I've had a lot of bullet failures with XTP's.

Gary......just on hogs?..... Or deer also?

Never had any issues with XTP's on deer. No experience on hogs.

I love the 240 gr XTP.
even modified some to start expansion sooner but never had jacket separation. I have shot more than 50 BG animals with it and never had jacket separation. Whitetails, Hogs, Red stag, and a few more. Rarely do i recover, but when i do they look beautiful.

Running mine between 1250 and 1350 out of 3 different 44 mag revolvers
my .02

Just on hogs, never shot a deer with the XTP's.

I will switch bullets - use the rest for practice. They're so darn accurate though!!!!

XTP is one of the best bullets I have ever used. If you are having issues with separation go to the 300 on hogs.

I have driven 44 cal 300's as hard as they will run in an Encore Rifle and pistol as well as a Contender. Look at the photos in my bragging board. There is a photo of a 300 gr XTP driven very close to max velocities with near 100% weight retention.

Check it out

I think they are fine on deer, and some hogs (mature boar with a gristle plate may challenge the integrity of the bullet), but having witnessed what I did in Texas in October, I would rather use a tougher bullet on bigger game like the Swift A-frame -- that is if you really feel the need for expansion. JMHO.

Compared to most of yall, I'm still a newbie on handgun hunting. Please don't take my questions as smart-A, or "stirring the pot", as they are just genuinely trying to learn from those with more experience than I. Since I started hunting with a handgun, I have used a Ruger 44, with xtp bullets. I haven't managed to find a separated jacket yet. Am I pushing them too slow? The load I'm using is exactly the same as listed in the OP. Obviously I don't have hundreds of kills and I don't get to hunt much of anything bigger than southern whitetail deer.
What would constitute "bullet failure"?
OP stated that both bullets suffered separation, but both animals were recovered in short order.
We know that every animal is a different reaction, but is there a notable difference between time shot/time expired if you were using similar weight 260gr WFN and 240gr xtp? Given roughly the same weight deer, and same high shoulder placement?
One of these days, I'm going to shoot some hogs, and get me a bear with my 44 when schedule allows. I'd like to have a "jack of all trades" load.
The xtp is very accurate, inexpensive, and unless I suffered "placement failure", I have had great success with them dropping deer in very short times, if not drt. I can't blame the bullet for my not putting it in the right place. All that being said, I'm never not open to improving what I can. The xtp seems to get loved or hated, not a lot of middle ground with it.

For deer I believe the xtp is a great bullet , does what it's supposed too at a very good cost. Myself it's all I use for deer, but if I ever get chance to go after a elk I would go with a hardcast bullet myself.

the xtp is an ok bullet on hogs and a good bullet on deer. problem is that when it gets bigger that's when there's the problems we see.

I think that the XTP'S are good for deer and exotic rams and goats. They are very velocity specific. They are not tough enough to be pushed past their recommended velocity....the exception may be the 400 gr. 475 version. I can easily push it to around 1,800 fps with no problems. Good luck getting that bullet to expand very much in the 475 Linebaugh and you can hang it up in the 480, that round just simply doesn't have the horsepower to make that bullet expand out of a short barreled revolver. I would not recommend them for game larger than Caribou and maybe Elk.

i would agree, franchise, the 400xtp are easily the toughest of the xtp line. i've not seen expansion on any of the game shot with that 400xtp since they're all 480's or 475's. i don't have the monster cannon artillery rounds you do! in those i'd imagine you get some expansion!!!!

Yes Sir, picture perfect, but expansion starts to only show up reliability at about 1,650 fps

In a short article I wrote on the terminal performance of Swift versus XTP bullets I finished it by saying "The Swift is a premium, bonded, partition bullet and well worth the money they cost. As you can see in the photos the expansion and weight retention are consistent and almost perfect. The XTP`s gave higher velocities with extremes at weight loss. While the XTP is not in the same class as the Swift it must be remembered that these bullets were taken from dead animals so they worked when placed in the right spot."

I'm surprised the 300 gr. XTP's are failing, Lynn Thompson used them with great success in Australia on a whole bunch of Buffalo & large hogs. From the looks of his video it looked like he was getting pass through's on many of the shots.
I've taken one elk with the 270 gr. Gold Dot (Deep Curl) with no problems. Those of you using heavy jacketed slugs had any luck with it? I would think more guys would like that bullet.

Dick

Lynn Thompson was using factory ammo which is grossly under loaded. When you pull that same 300 gr XTP out to the bottom cannelure and add 4.5 more grains of powder, you can significantly increase the velocity, but then you've reached a level that the XTP can't handle.

Yup. The xtps all work well when in their proper range. Unfortunately its not always what they claim and franchise is very right. Matt graham clearly told me that those bullets never opened and were essentially solids.

I am launching 250gr XTP bullets out of my .460 S&W at 2,400 fps with rather devastating effects on deer. Impact velocities a little less than that. They expand almost flat, but the internal damage is rather catastrophic and the bullets have held together.

On the same token, I am launching 240gr XTP bullets out of my .430 SJS at a muzzle velocity up to 2,400 fps as well and it's decidedly finishing pigs. The only recovered bullet was flat but held together. The rest have exited with nice large holes.

My .445 Super Mag pushes the 240gr XTP at 1,700 fps and shattered the on side shoulder bone of a doe. Actually embedding a large chunk of bone in the lead of the bullet. Internal damage was acceptable. This one did separate after penetrating from the quartering to shoulder, through the lungs, and lodging in the liver. Acceptable penetration to me considering the bone it destroyed on impact.

They wouldn't be my first choice for large game. But, I have pushed the XTP in .44 and .45 calibers past the recommended velocity threshold and had good results on deer and hogs.

I'm pleased.

Edit: Looking back at my pictures, I see that one of the deer taken with the .460 S&W resulted in jacket separation of the 250gr XTP. But, this was likely a result of the on side shoulder bone being shattered on impact as with the .445 SM deer. The bullet passed through the quartering towards deer and the separated jacket and core lodged in the hide (breaking the skin) on the off side.

I love running bullets outside their manufacturer recommended velocity thresholds and dispelling myths.

The recommended speeds are more like guidelines, really. Made by people sitting behind a desk looking at computer screens and shooting ballistic gelatin.

Reality starts at the front door.

One huge virtue of the XTP's is that they are available.
I liked the Speer .44 270 gr, but haven't seen any in stock anywhere in years.
I wish Hornady would make this weight and with the double cannelures like the 300gr's.

Has it come to that?
You mean we should judge things by actual performance on game?

On Boars and Deer I have not had any problem with the 240 Gr. XTP, actually, they are all I shoot out of my 44"s.

Matt told me the same thing. They work well because they're "under taxed." I don't think I have ever seen more than 1,000 fps and change every time I've choreographed that load.

To make an omelet, ya gotta crack a few eggs.

I dont think anyone has thought you would or wouldnt be able
To kill a deer or hogs. To judge things by actual performance
On game one would need to shoot bigger things to see how xtp's will work on bigger animals. Deer prove nothing bc u can kill them with a wrist rocket.Go take an xtp and push it well beyond its limits and ahoot something big and tough. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesnt but id like to see if you guys would go that route if say u were shooting something dangerous or a 12k sable in africa. Is that really the bullet you would use?

The majority of folks are going to be hunting deer and maybe some hogs.

Bigger animals needing a different bullet...No surprise there!

and....................it was pretty clear from the outset, criticisms of the xtp were based on how they would perform on larger game. if you never ever shoot larger game it really doesn't matter quite honestly what bullet you use out of any reasonable hunting pistol. i never felt the criticism of the 357 on deer was warranted since theres a plethora of deer killed with them. the point was the 300gr xtp only fail at a really high velocity threshold on big stuff. The OP talked about 300+lb hogs, not deer, not 80lb texas does.

and...........it is no surprise a different bullet is needed but if you look at the recommended game by manufacturers and ammo people, they paint a diff picture. like ammo manufacturers talking about 300gr xtps out of a 460 at laserlike velocities being good for any game that walks. sorry, but untrue......and i think people need to know the good the bad and the ugly and what given bullets will really work on which animals. i helped guide on oryx at a local ranch. i saw lots of bullet failures and lots of successes, i saw quite a few hunters walk off after we had to finish their animal and be somewhat surprised that what worked on deer didn't work here. thankfully we found nearly all the oryx and recovered their animals. that's what these discussions are about, and what the bovine bash was about, bullet testing on big animals.

So prefaced by the fact that I don't shoot 44mag, xtp's or large hogs, but would this discussion of suitability of the bullet change if we were talking about the big old tough boars with the nearly bullet proof shield that were discussed a few months ago on the forum?

i would assume so. i know on james boar it had a huuuuuuge gristle plate. the oryx we would shoot would sometimes have thinner hide, some had a hide that would make some cape buff envious. i just relay info and bullet performance results on big things for those that may run and shoot big animals one day. i didn't have internet nor read mags (since i don't trust much that is written in commercial print) and i just floundered on game finding out what worked and what didn't. i've had the dubious distinction of watching expensive animals run off to finally be tracked down and find out how bad certain bullets failed. i've also seen 12K run off into the bush and seen friends watch their hard earned cash run off never to be found again...............all due to conventional wisdom and what is told on forums. i've seen numerous cast failures and seen numerous jacketed failures. worst part is that's where a ph or guide snickers and says "i really don't recommend you hunt these animals with those little toys (referring to pistols)" this portrays our sport poorly. i just called on a moose hunt for my daughter and had a guide in alaska tell me he wouldn't take her with a handgun. seen to many failures per the outfitter. we had a discussion of bullets and types and reliability but he is soured at the idea. that is all this is about. no amount of dead deer answers these questions. the OP was discussing 300+lb hogs, which are in no means in the same league as a 1000lb+ animal. so jacket seperation on the hogs would potentially be catastrophic on dangerous large game. if ya hunt hogs i would assume ya wanna be loaded properly for a giant 500lb+ monster boar? where gary shot his hog at my property we were moving some stands. a hog ran across the road and was nearly as long as the dirt road was wide. just a massive massive boar. should that critter step out, i would suggest knowing the limitations of your equipment. just my opinion. that's why these discussions are fun. thinking about the what-if's.

The recovered bullet on the right is a 41 cal. 210gr Swift a-frame that lost 85 grains after punching one of the thickest gristle shields I`ve encountered on a big boar. I never witnessed a Swift bullet get as mangled as this one did. The guide thought I shot at 100yds but I felt it was more near 80yds from my FA`s with my handload moving the A-frame at 1645fps. The middle bullet is another Swift that missed the shield and is typical of A-frame expansion. A boars shield that`s like 3/4" plywood can really test a handgun bullet....

This.

i agree wholeheartedly, and i will quote that same post......when the thread is about deer.

we need to get a bunch out on a ranch, hunt some big stuff and continue to test what will and won't work on big dangerous game.

The op was about hogs. I rate deer and pigs the same class of bullet.

They are a medium game animal.

The thread wasn't about big or dangerous game, no?

no, hogs that i see mostly posted here are similiar but tougher than deer, but it tells me that you haven't shot really big hogs, which can show up at any time when hog hunting, if you had you would not consider them the same class as deer at all. a 300lb hog is much much bigger tougher critter than any deer. by far. and..........most claimed 300lb hogs are really lucky to break 200lbs, if that, and most 400lb hogs are lucky to break 250lbs at best. down in hondo we had one shot that was so big that it had to be brought in by a front end loader. 4x's the size of any other hog killed. not the same as deer at all. this you should know.

From the OP.....

And you know all the hogs I've shot and their size........by what means?

I rate feral hogs as a medium game animal. This has been my experience, regardless their size. Big, little and in the middle.

Which is why I quoated Ernie,

"The majority of folks are going to be hunting deer and maybe some hogs.

Bigger animals needing a different bullet...No surprise there!"

The usage of XTPs was referenced regarding his hogs. I think we are all in agreement that bigger game need a stronger bullet.

wow, how could you take anything i ever said to make a judgement about ALL your hogs. i know what i've seen pics of, period. it speaks volumes about experience if you label 100, 200, 300, 400, and 500lb hogs in the same class. if you got the pics, post em. no one here is getting personal and making those judgements. got any DG photos, by all means post em.

this has gotten like a thread on a sportbike forum talking about trackday tires for speeds over 180mph, you are like the guy talking about what works on his harley. great..............where's the DG photos, what'd ya use, as whit clearly posted, that was the OP's original question.

i don't think you will find a single post where anyone has any ideas that xtps shouldn't be used on deer or smallish hogs.

case in point, look at franchise's hogs, then yours....no criticism, condescension, no bashing, but same class? same bullets? i think not.

Nah, the dangerous game in Africa is too rich for my knuckle dragging blood. Only cows I've ever killed were with 12ga to the head for butchering. Even saw one killed with a .380 ACP to the head as well. As much as I hate the .380 ACP........brains are brains.

Pigs? I eradicate them for farmers and ranchers.. Killed a few.

Mostly with small caliber rifles like .223/6x45/.243 with some .308 in there to change things up. Mostly at night. The handgun and archery for pigs is when I have the chance actually do it for play as opposed to work. Which isn't as often as I'd like.

Hell, I've used knives, tire irons, and vehicles to kill them.

I don't post them all as this is a handgun forum and most I just leave laying in the field or haul to the brush. It's work.......but somebody's gotta do it. Twist.....my.....arm. Ha!

:-)

I've killed some big ones. I've killed some small ones. But, if I don't weigh them, I don't exaggerate.

The poster referenced hogs with the XTP and that's what I spoke of in regards to.

I've got a little experience with how they die and what it takes.

I can only speak from what I know and I know medium game of 500 pounds and under. Above that and it's all you guys.

My direct experience is quite limited, however there is one issue which has recently concerned me.

Some years ago I bought a quantity of XTP Mags for the .454 in preparation for my Africa hunt. Now the XTP Mags are stated to be a tougher jacket than the XTPs and indeed that's how they performed. All shots achieved complete penetration and no projectiles were recovered. Indeed the exit wounds suggested that they acted more like solids. It was more or less as I expected.

Now we come to the issue that concerns me, but for which I have no direct knowledge. On many forums I have read over the last year there have been complaints about Hornady components. Everything from jacket separation on projectiles to prematurely split case necks on rifle cases. In many cases the people who have complained have been long time Hornady users but its been recent production which they believe has let them down. We know that for the past several years, there has been a consumer run on everything shooting related. No sooner does it hit the shelves than its sold. Hornady publicly announced that it temporarily discontinued some of its range in order to cope with the demand for the most popular lines. The question is: as part of this process has the standard dropped. Does an XTP made in 2016 have the same jacket alloy and thickness as one made in 2010? Is the bonding process the same? Have short cuts been taken in order to get products to market? When we talk of XTP performance are we talking about the performance we obtained from old stock or new stock? I don't know the answers nor do I have any data, but its an issue of concern.

There is a big difference between the standard jacket and the mag jacket, but the fact that they are not bonded is the real issue. Without a doubt, Hornady of today is NOT what it used to be. I just wasted a lot of money on Hornady Basic Magnum brass...no 2 have the same primer pocket depth. The good news is that there are better bullets being made now.

One of them.

"Am I loading too fast or not fast enough? Is it really a problem that the jacket separated (on pigs)?"

You guys addressed the one about larger animals (buffalo, bear, etc) and I addressed the ones about the XTP velocity and pigs.

So, all his questions got answered in a concise way. Ain't we a helpful lot?

We are helpful! Only five pages to realize we agree👍

What else we gonna do?!? I already finished knitting your Christmas Sweater. I was bored.


Your socks are next, though.

I hope its a sweater vest. Those are the best

Only the best for you.

This has all been very entertaining and yet enlightening. How bout some gas for the fire. Per the OP's description of his two kills, the bullet's lead core exited and left the jacket in the animal. The animals only required the one shot to dispatch, and in the case of the heart shot one, it left a sizeable exit wound. I don't personally think the bullet failed as long as it exited the animal with a majority of it's lead core intact. I wouldn't recommend the 240gr for 300+ pound hogs, but wouldn't hesitate to use one if the opportunity arose while deer hunting.

Zee, could you put me down for one of those sweater vests? It reminds me of the Aerosmith album cover for "Pump". Could you get it to me by Christmas eve?

Thanks!!!

I'm collecting the chest hair for it as we speak...........

I guess it depends on the shooter's expectation of the bullet. If a cup & core bullet sheds it's jacket every once in awhile on the game I shoot due to bone, extreme angles, or noticeably larger specimen.........I don't lose sleep over it. As long as the animal dies cleanly.........it performed as expected for a cup & core.

If a bonded bullet or partitioned bullet sheds it's core........I don't think it was supposed to do that. We probably have a problem.

Cup and core............there is always the chance. If you don't want or can't afford that chance........get a stronger bullet.

I have shot some very large feral boar with 62 & 64gr Gold Dot bullets out of .223 Remington rifles.

When large bone like the spine or neck vertebrae are struck, I've seen the bullets turned to veritable lead dust inside the pig. Nothing to be found but lead colored "powder"...........in very dead pigs.

Failed? Well, a bonded bullet disintegrated. Technically, it failed. But, I knew it was a light bullet for the job and still used it because.........a bullet in the right place kills things.

I have covered the bed of a truck with pigs of myriad sizes all in a nights work with that bullet. A time or two.

My thoughts as well. Animals have been killed with non jacketed, lead alloy bullets for hundreds of years. Bullets that by today's standards were quite soft and expanded even at relatively low velocities. If the copper or gilding metal skin becomes separated from the dense lead core within the animal, it's behaving like a sabot round from a tank. The outer shell/sabot stays behind, while the dense core punches the hole. What's this about chest hair?

You wanted a sweater. What else ya think I make them out of?!?

I'll cherish it always! I certainly hope you didn't clean a whole p/u bed full of hogs. I had three sub 100 pounders in the trap, and my dad said we needed all three for our after Thanksgiving BBQ. I argued that we only needed two. So after I cleaned/butchered all three, I had at least a dozen fleas on me. And you know once you have a flea on you, you always feel fleas on you. I hate hogs!!! They eat my corn, that is for the deer. They root up stuff, and knock over feeders! Sorry, I had a moment.

Nah, the bodies get loaded, driven off the field to the brush........and dumped in a heap. When I first started doing that, I felt bad. Like it was a waste. I tried giving them away. But, there is only so much free pork can be had.

Dude! Fleas!!!! Suckers are COVERED in them!!! Drives me nuts! Often when I get home, I'm stripping my cloths off as I enter the front door (picture that in your head.............savor it............and moving on), throw them straight in the washer and dive in the shower. Little biting suckers all over me!!!!!

I don't mind most bugs. They taste good and serve a purpose. Fleas...........just piss me off.

Last year my brother took an average Missouri buck with his Super RedHawk 44 using my cast 310 grain WFN-GC bullets. He hit him high the first shot and he stayed on his feet. He kept shooting and had him on the ground in about 20 feet from the first shot. We recovered 2 of the 310 grain cast bullets expanded nicely to my complete surprise. I would have bet that you could not have have kept one of them in a deer except maby shot end to end. You never quit learning.
While near perfect for deer, my thoughts at the time was for tougher game I would need to harden up the alloy a little more.

Between all of us we collectively have a great deal of experiance on bullets. Some of us probably get away with using bullets that are not perfect due to putting the bullets where they belong in the first place.
This has been a good read, with lots of good points being brought up.

Bob

interesting post.....a real eye opener in more ways then one.....

You can say that again.....

As far as core separation is concerned, even if the bullet kills the animal, in my eyes it has failed. In my eyes, you might have gotten lucky that the separation happened the way it did, but will it next time? Too many uncertainties with inconsistent bullet performance. I saw a bunch of different hard casts last October perform in various ways, that left an impression. All killed, but a number of them failed in my opinion. Nothing turns me off more than inconsistency.

For those who didn't see this before, these two 300 grain Mag XTPs (.45 Colt) were shot into a live Red Stag and they didn't perform as advertised in the least. The first one made it through a shoulder but the only piece we found was on the inside of the offside ribcage. The other hit shoulder, folded its nose over and hooked a hard right and still remained on the onside.







The stag only weighed about 350-lbs. Food for thought.

Zee, can I get a sweater vest too? I'll send you the hair (of unknown origin)......

You're special. I'll make you a jacket.

Nice! I'll feel special in that coat!

That's a serious load of chest hair.

ooooh, can ya just save up some moustache trimmings and make it from that? i want the same attention to detail you used on ernie's christmas man-thong you gave him last year!


in all seriousness, i shoot more big stuff than little animals. i frame my thought of bullet performance from the premise "how would this work on a big dangerous animal" you can't predict cup and core separation. when the animal gets big, they don't go down well with that type of bullet separation. i have no qualms about using those xtp's on smaller/mid size game. on oryx, for example, you'll never ever find em. to the OP, for the big dangerous animals you spoke of, the swift, ceb's, barnes busters, punch bullets is the way to go.

I might hunk elk with a revolver and possibly a moose I guess here in the states.
Never intend to hunt dangerous game with a revolver.
IF I did, I would surely do things differently.

any pistol hunt, for anything is fun, but DG pistol hunting is truly living! you should try it.

We really only know about bullet failures that killed the animal and it was recovered. I've seen 240 XTP's fail miserably on deer too but like I said, it killed the deer and I recovered it. I'm in agreement with Whitworth that a bullet that comes apart fails but others would argue that if killed the animal then it didn't fail. One can only argue with that logic so much. It's sort of like the term, "overkill". I've never seen anything that was overkilled if actually killing it was the objective. I would rather practice with XTP's and hunt with Swifts or Barnes.

You know this but don't discount Moose as being dangerous.

Been following this thread,still wonder why i use the XTP 240grn in my 44 mag. This is the second year I've used the 44, Last year i tracked ALOT of deer mostly shot inside of 50yrds, I feel good hits. Had 1 at 147 according to the LRF, was DRT. Last season I had them loaded a little over max (10%), this year they are at max. so far this season, i flat lined 1 at 115yrds, and tracked the other that was 30yrds...To me, i think I need to slow them down more, or find a bullet that can withstand the capability's of the cartridge....

Here's a question to ponder on...why do people spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on guns and optics, and then try to spend cents on bullets...the bullets you shoot are just as important...plain and simple...if you spend $1,800 on a Freedom Arms, why cry about a bullet that costs 80 cents? Save the money from all the rainbow warrior sweaters and you'll have plenty of bullet money 😂

They work for me.

Can't speak for anyone else.

More truth there than i can comprehend , Swift here I come...

Whit, what gun were you using, what was the barrel length, and how fast were you pushing it?

I would like to get on the back order list for one of those vest"s, I heard the band Village People is looking for new members, lol, good thread!

That list is growing. Whit is donating hair..........with a few more voluntary (or involuntary) donors,we could go into full production.

My buddy was using a 7 1/2-inch Bisley in .45 Colt. I think the bullets were traveling around 1,200 fps at the muzzle. Both tradmark and I were witness to this.

in fact, he took my gun i had loaded with a-frames to finally kill it.

Unless we're talking about blasting prairie dogs, jacket/core separation is a failure. Whether or not it killed the target animal is really irrelevant. I've had big game bullets come apart and regardless of the result, I stopped using them. I've had XTP's come apart in SIMTEST so you can bet your hind cheek that I will not be using them on game. Conversely, I've driven Gold Dots way too fast and had them come apart but the core and jacket never separated.

Looks like 300 gr XTP'S out of my Super Redhawk...

I have a new 7.5" Blackhawk in 45 Colt, trying to find a HAMMER of a load for it, using a 300 gr. gas checked bullet.

I thought about sharing XTP hunting trips and stories from camp.. I have both good and bad. And a fair understanding of both.......But I started laughing so hard that I thought I might die!!

The sweater with the "Rain-Deer-Train"...is just too much!...hahahhaaa! I don't care who you are...that's damn funny!