Cape Buffalo with a Revolver

Reading in the latest American Hunter magazine I happened to see the reply from a gentleman (being nice here) who wasn't too complimentary about Max Prasac's clean kill of an African Cape Buffalo with a revolver. He fell back on the worn out argument of foot pounds of energy, so unfortunate!
I realize I'm probably preaching to the choir here but these guys that have no idea what they are talking about would be a lot better off if they would do a little home work before making themselves look so bad!
The hot rod 220 Swift is pretty impressive in the ft lbs of energy department, yet it probably wouldn't even break the hide on a mature Cape Buffalo on most shots. A few years ago an African PH said he would prefer the 30/30 lever action over the FA 454 against a charging Cape Buffalo, yikes!
Many, many hand gunners have taken big revolvers with superb bullets & cleanly taken every animal on the planet, we don't owe anyone an explanation or an apology. Those days are long gone!

Dick

I think that it's sad....unfortunate.....but, typical...most "popular" shooters/hunters lack ballistic common sense....the black gun uprising is killing handgun hunting...the spray & pray philosophy is more popular everyday...the ridiculous zombie apocalypse crap where everyone needs 20 thousand 223 rounds and as many 50 round clips as you can get, is killing handgun hunting....think about it, between popular TV hunters suggesting the 10mm is a go to Cape Buffalo gun and kids today spending hours playing video games, the ability of being able to cleanly take game animals with 1 shot or a few shots is lost on today's novice hunter. Plus......recoil......LOL.......Elmer Keith I'm sure would have special names for the new trend of tough guys...hahaha.....we used to be a see it to believe it group....now it's a "I read it or saw it online, it MUST be true" group.....common sense unfortunately is lost on today's Hunting Celebrities.....but, they were never really hunters in the first place.....just my opinion

And yet these same ''experts'' that deride handgun hunting as a

think a bow and arrow is some kind of DEATHRAY.

Damn good thing buffalo and other big game can't read . Never would be able to kill them!
I know we get bad press but I didn't pick up a handgun and start hunting with it to wow other people. I did it because I knew I could and I wanted to for my personal satisfaction. I am a HUNTER who chooses to use a pistol, There are better pistol shots out there than me I know,and I give them there do, but I will bow to no one because of my choice of weapon. I will live this lifestyle until I am no longer physically able ,then?

I am glad you posted this. Sometimes I feel like I lived past my time. Self reliance and common sense are long gone. On the flip side with todays attitude towards blackguns, the revolvers we love and such aren't getting out of hand this way. [price wise]

Dick, did you like my response? The powers that be came to me for a retort. Of course they edited out my not so nice comments, but I think I still got my point across. I actually viewed this as an opportunity to educate the ignorant.

Can you post the comment and your response? I'd love to see it.

YEP, PLEASE POST A COPY OF BOTH.

I HAVE ENDURED BS LIKE THIS FOR FAR LONGER THAN MOST OF YOU. ONE OF THE EXPERTS IN RIFLE/HANDLOADER MAGAZINES DERIDED HANDGUN HUNTING IN A COLUMN SO I SENT IN A REPLY AND ALL I GOT WAS A SCOLDING FROM DAVE SCOVILL. F...... S...!

I know, but every article I publish paints a fresh target on my backside. But I?m okay with that. We simply need to keep educating folks ignorant of our ways. I?ll scan it and post it a little later this morning.

Here you go:

John Duty clearly has constipation of the brain...unfortunately there are a lot that are this uneducated when it comes to bullets, hunting, and guns

There will always be naysayers and it is a good thing. It gets people who are on the fence to do a little research and make their own decision. While I have never shot anything bigger than large hogs I have been underwhelmed with handgun performance in comparison to rifles. That?s ok. They still perform well. I bow hunt. I always think it?s funny when hunters talk about ethics. We are all killing animals we don?t have to kill. Sure most of us eat our quarry but hunting is for entertainment. I have no dreams or wishes to hunt Cape buffalo. I do have a spot on the wall picked out at home I would like to have a kudu mount and maybe a couple other plains animals just to go ahead and make it an African wall. I will say Max did a pile of work getting ready for the hunt. I still have a 50ae barrel I got from Franchise years ago. That?s about as much .50 as I want to shoot and that?s a rather small 50 mounted on a large platform.

Max, I did like your reply. I thought you handled it very well & if allowed to I think you would have/should have hammered the hell out of that guy!
We are actually a strong group but we don't speak our mind enough I think. When I look back over 50 years I kind of chuckle at some of the comments....you shot it with WHAT! I never thought it was a big deal, sometimes never even took a photo, sometimes didn't even own a camera when raising 5 kids. I was lucky I lived right in the middle of heaven!
I've been lucky enough to meet some of the great one's, Elmer Keith several times but never went shooting with him. Bob Hagel, Elgin Gates, who was a great hand gun shooter, John Taffin, and recently with some guys in New Mexico who could do some amazing things to a 5 gallon bucket at 600 yds. Read Mic McPherson's book, Memoirs of Superstition Mountain Prospecting sometime!
But we take a back seat to nobody in knowing what we're doing, knowing ballistics, bullet placement, etc. And, we PRACTICE!
Recently friend Rey Garza gave us a walk through on getting ready for his bear hunt in Alaska, he shot & shot & shot. Many different guns, loads & bullets. How many guys actually do that. Not many of the rifle boys, but we do, we've earned our place guys!

Dick

Most of these so called experts have never killed an animal and if they did they wouldn't know how to field dress it! I'm at the point in life that I just walk away and leave them to wallow in their ignorance. My advice would be do the same.

That's not really a luxury I have. I also feel a bit of a responsibility to educate when possible. My wife asked me, after reading that letter to the editor, if I was mad. She was clearly not happy with it. I just laughed out loud reading it. It's an opportunity, not only to educate, but to expose some of these ignorant folks as true know-nothings.

You've got that right, Dick. We practice a skill that is a lot harder to master. It takes real dedication to do what we do effectively.

Why? You don?t win people over by being an ass. You don?t win people over by being a braggart. You don?t convince folks by exaggerating (?Many, many hand gunners have taken big revolvers with superb bullets & cleanly taken every animal on the planet.?)

You win or at least validate your opinion and position by stating the facts and proving the science. You can?t argue with facts. Or at least, not without looking the fool.

I think Max did well on his response, or at least the published part.

Being an elitist group and excluding or badgering others doesn?t win over the masses. Whether that be excluding handgunners or riflemen. Don?t be guilty of that which you despise.

Present the facts and let them stand for themselves. Max seems to have done that.

PRETTY IGNORANT FELLOW THAT JOHN DUTY GUY. GOOD RESPONSE MAX. ON MOST OF THE SAFARIS I WENT ON WHERE RIFLE HUNTERS ALSO WENT ALONG, MOST OF THEIR PRACTICE WAS "SIGHTING IN" WHILE I PRACTICED TWICE A WEEK FOR SEVERAL MONTHS, IN ADDITION TO YEAR ROUND HANDGUN SHOOTING.

BY THE WAY, A 180gr 300 WIN MAG LOAD AT 3,000fps HAS A TKO VALUE OF 24, A 375 H&H 300gr LOAD @ 2,600fps HAS A TKO VALUE OF 42, AND MAX's 420gr 500 JRH @ 1,400fps, AND OUT OF A 5 - 6 INCH BARRELED REVOLVER!, HAS A TKO VALUE OF 42.

Great response Max. Keep representing.

Well said ZEE. Daddy said ''You can ALWAYS catch more flies with

HONEY than money''

Whit, your response was as clean as your buff kill

Max's dedicated preparation and skill resulted in a great hunt and successful outcome. yet again proving that handguns are an effective tool if used properly. All kudos to Max for demonstrating what its all about.

However I don't know "John Duty" and don't label him a fool. Uniformed - Yes. Apart from handguns, my other interest is Dangerous Game rifles (my budget only extends to .375 H&H and .458 Win Mag). In those circles there are debates about energy, penetration, bullets style expanding vs solid etc. Debates every bit as active as the ones on this forum. Only there they debate things like whether 458 Lott is sufficient or whether you need 470NE or 500NE etc. Its easy to understand why they can't get their head around handguns. (ps experience from most PHs is that 20 metres is standard for buffs even with rifles.)

From my view point, especially in regard to thick skinned dangerous game like buff the essentials are:
i. Placement, placement, placement.
ii. Enough penetration to go through the vitals.
If the above conditions are met then it doesn't matter whether rifle or handgun. I haven't taken a buff but from the experiences of Max and several others on this site, I'm confident that handguns are quite capable if the hunter does his part.

Excellent come back on that guy Max. Most are ignorant of what a handgun can actually do until you have killed a few animals with various calibers. Case in point , the 30-30 is considered by the "Experts" to be a 100 yard deer cartridge in a Winchester Model 94 rifle but in a 14" T/C Contender the 30-30 suddenly becomes a 200 yard proven deer slayer !

Agreed Pa. Mike.. The same 'expert' logic applies to the 458Win Mag.

As a Dangerous Game ctg most African hunters feel a 458 is marginal past 50yds.

Yet in other circles a 45-70 is considered a ''1000 yard gun''.

There are even organized 1000yd shoots for the 45-70... A ctg that has

barely half the velocity with a third of the energy as a 458Win Mag

In this same issue of American Hunter a guy used a 45/70 lever gun to take a Cape Buffalo in Africa using cast bullets. Use what you are used to & have faith in, your life might depend on it.
But, if you are uninformed, don't call it a stunt.

Dick

I read that story. It took 7 shots (hits). Not pretty. He even admitted it was because of a poor first shot.

Yes-penetration, good bullet etc. is important, rifle or handgun. But ya still gotta put it in the right spot, regardless of "ME" or any other power measurement.

This is a topic that makes the conventional wisdom consuming Africa hunters apoplectic. Never mind that our revolvers produce less of everything compared to a .45/70 levergun, the .45/70 gets regularly raked over the coals in these circles. It seems to bring a lot of emotion out of otherwise rational people.

I just love sticking it to rifle hunters and nonbelievers that think we handgunners are second rate hunters. Everybody "knows" handguns are so ineffective they can't kill Cape buffs or if they do it takes multiple shots.
I've taken 3 Cape buffs now with handguns (.416 TaylorX2, .475 Linebaugh). The total number of shots I've used is THREE. If I'm counting right, that would be one per buff.
We're not second class hunters, but guys that prove the impossible every hunt.

Good article and response max. Best witness we can give is to go out and cleanly take our game. My last trip to africa the main goal was sable and a buff. I took both and had the two go a total of 30 yards. Another hunter wounded and lost a sable with a 375hh and wounded and lost a 416 rigby. He ended up recovering them by chartering a helicopter. Neither was a horrible shot. Just to the back edge of the lungs. I didnt rib him, me and my party went out to help him track them. He was very very complementary as to how well my revolvers worked.

Mark,

Did he shoot the 416 rigby with the 375hh? Did he hit it too far back on the stock?....😜😂😂😂😂...I couldn?t help it...LOL.

Congrats on your buff and sable! Both were impressive.

Great going Max! Nobody could have said it better! I'm glad someone responded to educate the gentleman. Like I said in my first comment I just ignore such people. Maybe not the right thing to do but as I get older I don't have time for people's opinions!

Don't hold it against us Michiganders for the response of one knucklehead!

Rocky, you're one of the nicest, most genuine people that I've ever hunted with. Whit, my hat's off to you for using a big bore hunting revolver with dangerous game power to cleanly take your big Cape Buff....unlike some celebrity handgun hunters 😉😬....you represented this sport and love of handgun hunting with respect and dignity 💪🏼👊🏼

Hahaha Good point. He was a nice guy but it just goes to show theres no replacement for placement.

I wouldn?t dare! There is plenty of ignorance everywhere, not limited by geography!

Thank you for the kind words, David! I take this craft seriously and want to educate as many as possible to this great activity we partake in!

Max, Thanks so much for representing handgun hunting in a positive perspective. Sadly one of the reasons that uninformed -aka ignorant- hunters believe that your hunt was a stunt is that many of the tv hunting shows that do depict handgun hunting treat it like a stunt. In actuality, the average rifle dude has no business pursuing game unprepared with a handgun. Quite often these are the guys that give us a bad name.
It would be interesting to know how many Cape Buffalo have been taken with a handgun. I am guessing a large enough number to push it out of the stunt category.

Thanks for the kind words. I have lost track of all of the arguments I have had online with the typical rifle hunters who spew energy figures and have clearly never killed anything bigger than a whitetail. It's all because they can't comprehend the dynamics of terminal ballistics, and what actually destroys tissue. It's frustrating. You show them the proof and they still can't wrap their heads around it....

The fight goes on...

Max,

As long as the Cape buffalo don?t know you can?t kill them with a handgun - everything will be alright.

I fully support Cape buffalo illiteracy. The less they know the better!

I don't know about the rest of you, but of all the people I've talked to about handgun hunting, very few of them react negatively. Most of them are amazed or fascinated by it. That said, no matter how many game animals we cleanly take with our handguns, we're always going to run into hunters like John who, despite presumably never even having hunted anything with a handgun before, will attempt to denigrate us and our pursuits as unethical, or akin to a stunt. Those aren't the people that we need to try to convince; they've already made up their mind. We have to convince the silent majority who, upon reading about our hunts and well-worded replies to the haters and doubters, are willing to open their mind a little and learn. While John may have sent a snide reply disparaging Max's hunt, how many more people read that article and likely gained a little better understanding of handgun hunters and their capabilities? I'm guessing quite a few.

With a circulation of more than a million a month I hope you are right. That said, you would be shocked at how many rifle hunters view what we do with skepticism. But, I welcome it as I believe it is an opportunity to educate. The letter I responded to was an example of conventional wisdom gone amok. So many folks believe muzzle energy is a measure of lethality. As they say, ignorance is bliss...

I have seen that a lot, esp. on the fire. I rarely go to that part of the forum now, some there know what they are talking about in scopes, longer range rifles, etc.
It appears they don't want to be objective about the 45/70, afterall the average guy can buy one.

He says he is experienced but the mere fact that he mentions the 'ballistic calculator" and doesn't consider that tissue damage, wound channel & penetration is what matters on Big Animals & mentions a round that would not have the right bullet, penetration, anything that matters, well it shows he is very ignorant. Max was VERY patient.
Hats off to you Sir, it appears my toleration level is dropping!

Energy table disciples should think a little deeper as to their assertions. At-the-muzzle energy figures are not what reaches the animal anyway. To follow their logic a rifle will fall below killing power after the energy drops to 1000 foot pounds or below. As if a .458 Winchester magnum bullet is futile after traveling more than 50 yards. That circling cycle of premise is stuck on a failure of musing. Terminal ballistics is what count. And placement is paramount in exercising terminal ballistics. Max Prasac mingled out in his response the reference to 7 feet of penetration with his revolver and the Professional Hunter quoted as saying the buffalo was dropped in a very short distance. Edifying while responding is a wise approach.
Placement of a lethal bullet design where the animal lives is WHAT BRINGS DOWN GAME EFFECTIVELY. Whether delivered by a rifle or a handgun, the bullet is the only contact that reaches the animal. Make the shot count as it is only accurate shots that are satisfying. If the animal moves just as you pull the trigger and the bullet hits too far back, then all bets are off and the lead must fly or the meat won't fry. The men and women of action know what is at stake. Keep shooting and reloading until the animal falls. And if the animal stops then place the shot accurately and keep hitting it till the animal falls. A true hunter respects the animal they hunt. And they strive, in turn, to drop it humanely. Hunters do not delight in the kill. Hunters savor the hunt and want only to bring the animal down as fast as possible with a lethal shot. Whether a neophyte or a seasoned hunter the goal is the same. Practice and practice and practice some more. No regret is more keenly and deeply felt than to miss your target and in turn, wound your quarry. Prevent regret by practicing until you are at ease in lining up the sights and squeezing the trigger consistently until the hammer falls. God Bless the Doers and God Forgive the Ones Who Give Only Lip Service to Action!!! Amen

JMHO I could care less what other hunters thing as long as they leave me alone. I am sure that a lot goes on that i don't agree with. (Sunday Hunting) Alas everyone seems like they are bound and determined to stick their nose in someone else business right down to what you can eat, drink, or say.

This is true. The internet gave everyone a voice and the ability to respond so quickly, some don?t even bother engaging their brains. That said, I?m in the business of publishing my handgun hunting exploits and am therefore attacked by the ignorant masses on occasion, and that requires a response that will hopefully open the minds of some. Hopefully...

And God Bless those of you who do! Keep at it I love reading everything that you do!

Many thanks! We all collectively need to keep fighting the good fight and educate the ignorant.