357 Max VS 357 Herrett

Using 180 or 200 ( mostly 180 ) grain bullets out of a 12" barrel Contender G2 which would you choose and why. Mainly wondering if there is enough performance gain with the Herrett to justify the case forming, fireforming, etc. Use would be mainly whitetails, possibly black bear or hogs.

In a 10" there is zero advantage, but in a 14" the Herrett pulls the Max by a good bit. In a 12" I would expect some gain but not enough to warrant the hassle, IMO. I love my Max.

I have RPM 12.5" barrels in both .357 Max, and .357 Herrett. With the 180 gr. XTP bullet, the Herrett will best the Max by 154 fps. With the 200 gr. R-P RNCL bullet, the Herrett will best the Max by an even 100 fps.. Since it sounds like you have not yet bought a barrel, I suggest you consider the .35 Remington, as best stated by the foremost authority on the Herrett.

.35 Remington by Bob Milek Guns and Ammo February, 1986

Kinda sounds like the 30-06 and 308 rifle debate.I would go with the max to avoid making brass for the Herett.In my opinion 100-150 f.p.s. is not that big of a deal, unless your talking about lower velocities, .38Special,ect.,

If I was going to get a bigger 35 it would probably be the Rem, but in a rimmed version. I had a factory 35 Rem waay back and it would misfire a lot with factory ammo. I didn't load then so I sold it off and later got a 10" Max which I still have today.

Anyone ever tried making Herrett brass from 375 Win brass?

I have the 357 Max in a 15.75 Contender barrel. After a LOT of data research and deliberation I went with the Max. It easily pushes a 180gr projectile at 1900+ fps. I have some friends that are shooting 190gr cast bullets at 2000fps. Life is good.

A 190gr bullet at 2000fps is a 375 Win, (basically without splitting hairs). And the Max is a LOT cheaper to feed than the Win. I thought about the Herrett REALLY hard, but I don’t think game will ever be able to tell the 100fps difference. LOL

I agree with John the max is the way to go, sometimes making brass for the Herret's can be a little tricky.

I have Contender barrels in both cartridges. A 12" 357 Maximum and a 15" 357 Herrett.

Using the right powders with bullets 200 grains or heavier the 357 Herrett will outrun the 357 Maximum by 250 fps.

H322 and Ramshot X-terminator are about the same burn rate and work well with heavy bullets. Speer recommends 38 grains for the Remington 200 grain round nose and gets a speed of 2200 fps out of 14" barrel.

leverman, do ya think that 3" of barrel might have helped the Herrett a tad ;-)

Leverman, those are some awesome numbers! I have never seen 357 Herrett with states like that, I LIKE IT! A 200gr at 2200fps is some outstanding performance. The highest performer “I” could find for a 200gr projectile was utilizing 1680 to push a 200gr Sierra RN in a 14in barrel using at 2047. Humorously, Accurate listed the 180 SSP and 28gr if 1680 at 2210 with a 14in barrel. (Very close to your #’s) I did find Sierra’s loading data using there 200gr RN and 38gr H332, there listed vel was 2000fps. However, my Contender reloading manual was printed in 2004 and could be out-of-date.
Rod, I am with you and I also think the extra 3 will help. From the loading data I have from Accurate, I can shoot a 200gr at 1987 and a 180gr at 2034. That is using 1680 and a 14in barrel. From several sights and books that I have browsed, 1680 is “the” performer for the 357 Max. I wonder how much I will “really” gain from my 15.75 MGM barrel. LOL

http://357maximum.com/accurate-powder-pressure-data/

For those who prefer Accurate 1680 as a powder of choice for the 357 Maximum I suggest you read this article.

AA1680 is highly recommended by Johan Loubser of Western Powders.

I would like to weigh in on the 357 Max/357 Herrett discussion.
Have or had acouple of each. Both are great rounds in any bbl. length, BUT the Herrett is a pain to make! Worked w/ 356Win downloaded for contender, which was great, but sold barrel& all components to a co-worker. I will throw another round into the mix,granted we're talking handloading here anyway,the 35 Bullberry. This is what I thought about while crying about case cutting 30/30 cases for the Herrett. It is a full length case, no case trimming except for uniformity! Just load new 30/30 or 375Win brass to about 10-15% short of max 35Rem load, then off to the range or varmint area and fireform the brass. Another great thing( I forgot to mention), this round does not require custom dies! It can be assembled w/ 35Rem&375Win dies. I started with Lee dies because I already had both, but have since acquired CH-4 35Bul.set.What this round basically is, is a 35/30 improved w/a match chamber, to keep it simple. Fred Smith of Bullberry told me to use 35Rem load data. Depending on the source of data( stacks of it), Herrett data is a good starting point. I am thinking of rechambering one of my RMax barrels into another Bullberry so I can have a lightweight bullet barrel & a heavy. Impressive varmint gun w/125-140gr.s. Have not taken anything bigger yet, too many other Contender barrels in the cabinent! Considering the run of game Bob Milek & Steve Herrett took w/ 10" TC 357Her.s, and Deena Folmer has with 35Rem, I can't see much need for anything else. I did have a 375JDJ Handcannon, but now have it a 26' Encore rifle. My body likes it better!

I had a 10" Max and I still have the 10" Herrett. In the 10" not enough difference to worry about. I kept the Herrett because of the two barrel's it was the most accurate; the Max gave me 2 1/2 @ 100 yards and the Herrett 1 1/2 - 2". Of course that was just my two barrels and is not a real test...your mileage may vary!

Bill in OR

I think yall are right. You can split hairs, micro numbers, but I don’t think game will ever know the difference between the two rounds. I think the Herrett will actually outperform the Max.

I bought my Max because I REALLY regretted selling my TC Custom Shop 375 Win barrel. I was looking more at the 375 Win and the 357 Max and they were very close, just like the Herrett and Max here, but went with the one that was cheaper to feed. LOL

I had totally forgot about the 35 Bullberry. Great round.

MMKT, have you made up your mind yet. LOL

I was more interested in finding out what YOU wanted to get! That’s the nice thing about a forum. You can ask questions, debate the little ponders, and still do what ever suits YOU best!

TCTEX, I just ordered a barrel in 357 Max. I've had several Maxs and one herrett but never did much work with any of them and also never had the opportunity to chrongraph them either. The Herrett I had was years ago, probably late '70s. I got some loads out of a Silhouette book and remember the recoil was brutal with 200 grn bullets in 10" barrel. I really need to get a chronograph, if I find the Max too gentle, I can always go for a rechamber.... Thanks everyone for your input.

LOL

As long as YOU are happy thats all that matters!!!

I have not found it difficult at all to create 357 Herrett cases, and I appreciate a few things about it vs the Max that I think make it far nicer. To begin with, Herrett has a beefier rim, and is just bigger brass, and 30-30 is very ubiquitous. It is hard to find 357 Max. Next matter is power. 357 Herrett is simply more powerful, yet can be dowloaded. Another subtle advantage is that it is bottlenecked. This makes it easier to get into a Contender, yet it extracts even better, because the beefier rim makes better engagement on the extractor. Of course, if you want to shoot cast and like chasing the bullet with a card wad and grease cookie, the Max has an advantage. You are pretty limited to 158 grain max if you want to do that in a Herrett.

The key to making Herrett seems to me to be torch annealing the necks before you expand. Here's a rundown of how I do it, and it is one of the easiest and most straightforward conversions I know of.

Take a fired 30-30 case. Hacksaw it off about an 1/8" greater length than 1.750. Anneal it with a torch until the shoulder becomes discolored but stop before it gets too hot to touch, rotate the case as you touch it with the flame. Then lubricate the case and inside of the neck. Expand case and full-length size. Final step, trim to length. I use a Lee lock-stud case trimmer in my electric drill to do this. Chamfer mouth.

Usually when I do this the cases come out so nice that fire forming seems like an unnecessary step. But I will load a starting load first, then neck size case, and from then on us full house loads. The biggest problem is FINDING AA1680!

Curioushooter, welcome to HHM!

Thank you for the info; cool to find an "oldie" and bring it "up-to-date."

Between 357 Maximum and 35 Herrett I would go with the 357 Maximum. Brass for the 357 Maximum is a non issue at this time. Just order some from Starline.
I have a couple of 357 Maximums. An MGM Contender barrel and a rechambered CVA Scout. Both work well.

I also have the before mentioned 35 Bullberry. This is an easy one to work with today. Order a 35 Bullberry die set from C&H 4D. Use 38-55 Starline brass. Run through the sizer die and reload using 35 Remington loading data. Down load 10% - 15% for fire form loads. Once fire formed use full house 35 Remington Contender loading data. The 35 Bullberry was originally made by resizing 375 Winchester brass. When 375 Winchester brass got scarce and expensive the 35 Bullberry was not a good choice at all. Then Starline came out with 38-55 brass and every thing changed for the better. Now you can just order 38-55 brass from Starline with no problem at all. I have been working with 38-55 brass for a couple years with no issues with it at all. With this round you have a nice rim for positive ignition every time. Much better than working with a 35 Remington in a Contender. Do some thinking about what bullets you will use in it. I am now using mostly 180 XTP's. You might want to think about a .357 bore instead of a .358. No problem with jacketed bullets, but mine does not like .357 sized cast at all. My NOE 360-180 mold casts large enough that I can size them larger to work in my .358 bore.

Bob R