For Those That Think Elk Are Armor Plated

An Elk A 243 win and 688 yards equal Elk steaks



Originally posted here; http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5886762/1

Complete with video with a 1 shot kill and a drop in it's tracks


Put the bullet where it goes and the skinning begins

Dang! Great shooting!

Ain't that the truth ;-)

Great shot congrates to the girl shooting.

Hit my first deer with a VLD this year. The get the job done in a hurry.

WOW! thats all i can say.

thats what happens when you spine an animal.

nice !

Are you sure the shot wasn't a shoulder shot?

Watch the video closely at about 41 seconds in....as she fires you can see the bullet trace and impact. Looks to me like a high shoulder which is the BEST place to anchor game. I've used this on tons of crop damage hunts and it drops them on the spot....heck, it's where I shot my buck last week. That impact zone breaks down all operations....breaks the back and both shoulders. The problem is, is that is a very small zone to shoot for.

Would I try it with a .243W? Nope....but good for her.

This video may dispell some of the crazy bullet debates about what one must use to kill game animals, and you guys know what I'm talking about. I would still choose a larger round, but if the 243 is adequate for elk, and I don't think it is, then it may seem foolish for us to argue about "how tough" other game animals are. Elk are not bullet proof and neither are WT deer and boar or the like.

I completely agree....but add in an adrenaline factor for a hyped up animal that's being chased by 15 orange clad weekend warriors and a bigger bullet can't hurt! That's why I like a bigger boomer for the PA deer opener.

I would never use a 243 or 7/30 to go after elk with. I would want something heavier. But, to each his or her own. The before mentioned rounds will work if placed properly as one can see, but I wouldn't risk it. I haven't taken an elk, but I haved killed a big Nilgai bull w/ a handgun and they are similar in size to elk. Nilgai do have a very tough hide, it is unbelievably thick. It's not quite like the gristle sheild on a boar though. It's more like heavy, thick skin than cartilage.

It's hard to tell if it was a spine shot or high shoulder. It was a great shot even though it didn't land right behind the shoulder. It's not often you watch a hunting video with shots long enough to watch the vapor trail. If I was in elk country and someone said come on lets go elk hunting and all I had was a 243 I wouldn't turn down the opportunity. That said If I was planning an elk hunt I would plan to take something bigger. They are definetly not armor plated but they aren't coyotes either.

That was a long shot for a 243 for sure.

But, I have watched and rewatched this video. At the start you can tell it is windy, just from the audio, watch the vapor from the elks breath (screen right to left). Then he say's "Hold right behind the shoulder" I do not know if they have dialed for wind or not. Roll it back and forth from 47 seconds to 50 seconds, as the elk is going down it appears to have a blood spot on its back just above what I would call the "Paunch". I am not critisizing, I'm just sayin, elevation and don't forget the windage.

high shoulder shot is where the bullet landed

A fine shot indeed. My apologies, for reading too much into it.

I have a good friend that has used a 6XC with 107 SMK's and killed several elk with them.

another 4 to 6 inches of drop which is nothing at that range for a 243(probably not even a crosshair width) and that elk would have been out of there with a broken leg at the most and a long tracking job ahead. That was a lucky shot and some would even say unethical at that range with that caliber.

I'm going to break this up and comment.........



This part I'm going to say "not really". Now I'm no LR shooting guru but I've done some. After testing on my own then shooting with Ernie in 2009, drop is easy.....I mean easy. I could pretty well guess that the gun did not belong to the girl...it was the guides gun. He's likely got that thing tweaked and tuned (loads and drop data) to know exactly what it will do. In that case you can put a novice behind it and walk them through the basics and have them connect easily....I've done it with beginners, not at 688yds, but out to 400+ and with a handgun.

As for wind, they could have laid there for an hour waiting for it to die down or just measured it with a meter, watched for matching indicators across the valley and just dialed in for it.



This I would tend to agree with. I've taken deer at close to 500yds w/ a .243 rifle and found minimal expansion at the exit wound but I was using a 75gr V-Max (MV 3339fps)....they are shedding steam pretty quick at that range.

Good grief, why do ethics have to be dragged into these conversations? Clearly the caliber is up to the task. A .50 BMG in the guts wouldn't kill the animal immediately but no one would be raising the ethics issue. There is no replacement for placement, period. I know it's not a caliber many of you would choose (me included), but it obviously works. Anyone who hunts enough knows how many deer/elk/fill-in-the-blank are wounded and lost due to poor marksmanship and not because of the "inadequacy" of the chosen cartridge.

Let's ponder this.....how many folks misstate their intentions and use the word "ethics" in place of "adequate"? I should have changed my words and said that there are certainly cartridges that would seem more "adequate" in the hands of less coached and less trained individuals but the .243W did the job when properly applied.

75 grain bullet is not on par with a 105 VLD as a long range bullet. Looking at an exit in the hide is not a good indicator of expansion, I would be more inclined to judge by the damage to the vitals.

I have access to more 1 shot elk kills with the 243 if anyone wants to see them. One friend shoots a lot of elk each year with the 243 on crop deprivation permits

Dan, I wasn't being critical of you, it's just that ethics seem to be a last ditch argument when folks don't want to concede that even a lowly .243, placed right, will do the job. Not my choice either, but one can't really argue with success.

I wasn't arguing with success in fact I wasn't arguing at all but the choice to take that shot at that range with that caliber is one the majority of responsible hunters would not have taken. Like you said look at the number of animals lost so why increase the chances 10x? Just to say you did it? Why not work in on it to a more reasonable distance for the cal or pass and find a better set up? Bottom line I've lived in elk country all my life and I've seen more elk before, during and after the kill than alot of people and I've seen properly hit elk with proper calibers pack alot of lead. That elk was still spined whether the bullet hit high in the shoulder or not it's the same affect it either broke or shocked the spine and as Dan said earlier that is a very low percentage shot but probably the only one that would have worked with that gun at that range. When I lived in Rocky Mtn elk country I knew of several people that hunted elk with nothing but 243's but since I've been in Roosevelt country I've only ever heard one guy even mention it and he was literally laughed out of one of the local gun stores, of course he was a city boy from Portland that had never hunted elk.

jwp....I completely agree with you about the bullets. My observations come from 40+ deer kills w/ a .243W and 75gr VM's out to 500yds. Out to 375-ish the bullet stays in the deer most of the time with a shoulder shot. The MV and impact V are such that the bullet fragments violently. Beyond 400yds the bullets begin to exit as the impact V is low enough to not violently effect the bullet and they act more like a conventional bullet but yield small exit wounds...and I do realize that they are only .243" bullet so doubling size is still only .5". Internally there is damage but not radical as you would expect. I've not shot anything over 500yds with the .243W so I have nothing to add there.

I wanted to note more but was running out the door at the time....and by all means, post the video link!! I like seeing critters get tipped over at LR!



I did not take it as such......was just making more of an observation for all of us to consider.

ah ya gotta love the old "which caliber is best" campfire argument... life would be too boring without it lol

I like the fact that we live in the good old USA and can have options. If it is legal and want to hunt with the 243 do it! Want to use a .338? do it! as Americans we can! God I love that.

Me? I have always been a bigger is better kind of guy lol.

Well said!

That was a great shot! And...if I'm not mistaken, the guide is John Burns (the ex-host of "The Best of the West") and he is a long range expert; which would make that shot very do-able with him coaching and a good trigger squeeze. That said.... A 243w would probably not have been my cal of choice for elk.

You are correct

Thats John.

I believe the girl is a friends daughter. That sounded like her dad in the background, he sometimes films for John