Custom Work, or FA?

So here's the deal: I've got a BFR in 475L, a wonderful gun. But since the first season in the field I've been wanting to get some work done on it. You know, a little barrel trimming, a little action tuning, a little grip work, maybe a couple other little touches here and there... nothing super-special, just trying to make it a bit more field-friendly.

But the way I figure it, by the time I'm done I've essentially bought myself a pretty decent used Freedom Arms in the same chambering.

So the question is, do I get the work done of the BFR, or just sell it and pony up for a nice used FA in 475L?

My suggestion would be to have it tuned up, with barrel cut to your desired length and then get the grip frame reworked and fitted with a set of custom grips made for your hand. Then it will be personalized. You get the FA (nothing wrong with the FA) and it will be in a configuration for the masses. You already have the BFR, might as well personalize it......JMHO.

Find a good gunsmith and go for it.

While I would love to own a FA...........this man makes much sense.

Jack Huntington -- his grip frame mods are worth much more than he charges IMO. I'm a guy who lives and breathes by the Bisley, but his reshaped plow-handles have all of the advantages of the Bisley without the drawbacks.

I'd take Whit's advise. I have 4 FA's and love 'em, one is customed by Jack H. complete with grip re-worked and is my favorite. Having your BFR customized , and I'd recommend Jack Huntington do it, makes your gun one of a kind, essentially you've personalized it. Way to go IMHO.

Whit has the right idea

Yup. I'd go with Jack too. I already got a 500JRH from him, and sent him another frame that is being turned in to a 45 Colt. If ya do decide to go that route, ya HAVE to do the extended grip frame. If ya don't and you end up shooting someone's gun that has his frame on it, you'll wish you had done it the first time, cause you WILL be sending your gun back to have it done.

It's that good for sure!!

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. Interestingly one-sided response. Gives me more to ponder...

Get the Freedom.... This is a 100 yard target using my Freedom Arm`s 475LB and since hunting is what this is all about my money would go for a super accurate model 83...The bottom target has three 425gr WFN bullets making one hole at 100...These are my thoughts and not directed at anyone....

I have yet to meet a BFR that won't shoot with or better than an FA. The fit and finish doesn't compare, but there's a lot to like about a BFR as a true working gun. Keep in mind that they are put together correctly and they use Badger barrels. Plus, you can safely carry it with a full cylinder. My .454 FA shoots well, but so do my "lesser" guns.

Just to be clear, I have examples of both of the guns mentioned here, and they both have their merits, but for a true reliable field gun, the BFR is one tough act to beat.

Nice shootin' James!

Most definitely!!

My vote is to customize and get an FA. That is if the wallet allows. My wife says that my wants are bigger than my wallet though.

Amen to that. I am certainly the weak link with my 475L, but on a good day.... WOW!




THIS, to me, is where the rubber hits the road. What I dream of is the magic blend of accuracy and reliability.

So for those who have owned and hunted with BOTH guns, would you say the BFR is a more reliable field gun than a Freedom Arms? Or possibly more Field Friendly, if we can call it that. If so, what makes it so?

I think csherril hit the nail on the head, customize your bfr and buy a FA.

Both are reliable, dependable and well made. Both are more accurate than 99% can shoot. The fit and finish are where things seperate. It's like comparing a baseball bat and a club. You can hit people over the head with either one, one just has a little sleeker lines, and is a little smoother looking than the other.

haha, I like your analogy! I was facing the same dilema when I got my FA 454... in the end, the Freedom Arms did not need to be modified to make me "happy" and it is the original 454, AND I had the money, so I went that route. I have been very happy with mine.

That being said, I would really like to get a BFR some day also... and another Freedom Arms!

P.S. for what it is worth, I have been to the factory in Freedom, WY twice now, and they are very very nice and down to earth people including the owner Bob

James, that is some damn fine shooting!

You better be careful... Those Freedom Arms owners may get upset at you calling their guns clubs!!!!
Just kidding...

I am not comfortable with the tolerances being so tight on an FA, but that's just me. It doesn't take much to tie one up (slight crimp pull will put you out of contention). Plus, broken firing pins are well documented as well as trigger return springs. Yes, you can carry spares in the field, but I don't have these issues with a BFR or Ruger for that matter. A friend of mine also managed to break a hammer (main) spring on his .500 JRH FA83, and it was down for the count.

FA's are known for their precision and accuracy. Can't touch them for fit and finish either. Maybe I'm fortunate, but I have a number of lesser revolvers that will shoot much better than I am capable of. For instance, I have a box-stock SRH in .454 that will pull down 1 1/2-inch five-shot groups (with factory loads not tailored to the gun) at 100 yards with a red-dot mounted up top. My .480 SRH is even more accurate. I can only imagine what could be accomplished from an accuracy standpoint with a variable power scope attached. I know FA's are magical, but they aren't the last word in accuracy.

When you hit the woods, mountains and swamps where the going is going to be tough, wet and muddy for days and so are your guns. In the safe you have two revolvers equally accurate same barrel, sights,grips, caliber. You shoot each well. One's a BFR ones a Freedom Arms which one are you going to choose to drag thru the muck with you. The $2,000 Freedom arms or the $800 BFR ?

BFR brother!

I really don't think you're going to gain much with an FA. BFR's are very well made, better than a factory Ruger and their barrels are match grade from Badger. Have the BFR modified and tuned. I think anyone would be disappointed trading "up" to an FA expecting some profound difference in performance.

I don't have much of a dog in this fight, but here's my thoughts....

The looks of the gun are what ya show your buddies, and post pictures of. The performance of the gun, and what you can do with it in real life hunting situations is what the brass tacks are all about. You wanna show a bear a pretty gun, or you wanna put a big hole in him?

Pretty guns are fun, but they darn sure better be functional (DEPENDABLE) as well.

Well, just to toss out a counter of sorts......

My Field grade FA 454 has been carried a lot in hunting stuff, and actually more everyday at the ranch when doing chores. And it wears ivory grips.

It's been wet, dusty, covered in chain saw chips etc., and never had a problem with it being to tight to function. At the ranch it might go three or 4 days, being shot, not cleaned, shot some more rinse repeat until I get back home. It's never had a reliability issue. About the only thing I have not done is run it through swamps and mud. None of that around here.

I think any reasonable holster that is gonna be used on a FA or custom gun should do well to keep the sand and twigs and gravel out of any gun.

If you are worried about bumps and bruises, I would think that the cringe factor would be the same on a FA or custom gun. Either is going to cost. But I would not say that a FA is too tight for hunting or carry, at least not for me.

Craig

Craig, the OP is talking about some minor tuning to his BFR like a better grip, not a full-blown custom. Just for clarification.

Whit,

Yes, I understand that. Odin noted that the upgraded BFR might end up costing the same as a used FA. If that were the case, then the discussion about tolerances/practicality and use/wear might be the same?

Craig

I hear ya Craig! I have my custom with me all the time. If you're worried about getting dings, ya probably shouldn't be carrying it. Granted, I'm careful with it, but if it takes a ding while hunting, well, to me, it adds a little character from the hunting trip. I don't mind "memories and stories" being seen on my guns, but I do try to avoided them as best I can.

Like you said, a good holster takes care of most of that.

Guys, it's only money........right?

Pigs don't even eat it ;-)

Craig, I don't think that changes the issue of reliability. I think the design of the BFR is a better one with that in mind. Plus, that extra long cylinder gives you a bit more critical room in the case of a crimp pull. Don't get me wrong, I love my FAs, but there are some critical flaws that I have trouble getting past. However, I do accept them as they are. JMHO.

Whit,

Exactly why I posted my experiences of the FA as not being too tight for some amount of neglect. It's not hard to find thoughts from folks in print or the web who think that tightly toleranced guns only have a limited range of acceptable use, as to risk.

I do not have a 475L, nor have I ever fired or reloaded for one, so I will defer to your breadth of experience. I have done some pretty "silly" stuff with 454 Casulls and Ruger plus levels in 45 Colts, with a slew of different bullet types. I have never had a round slip, and tie up a gun. No doubt it happens, but I tend to lean towards letting my ability to reload properly trump decisions to buy guns that are more forgiving to reloading errors.

It's funny, I am actually going through this right now with 45 Colt SAA loads that are at the upper end of pressure for the platform. Experimenting with taper crimps and plated bullets, for plinking loads. With my selection of components and pressure, I have been seeing about 5-10 thou of pull on the last cartridge in the cylinder.

Dunno, maybe rather than call it a critical flaw, perhaps a design consideration might be a better term ;^)

Craig

Okay, if semantics are so important! LOL!

I have not have .454 handloads break crimp, but have had factory ammo from a number of manufacturers pull crimp. In fact, one lot of ammo that was regularly pulling crimp tied my FA83 up immediately, whereas my Ruger Redhawk was able to fire four more times before the bullet was out far enough to tie it up. It's a real consideration with rounds as raucous as the .454. Of course one doesn't need to load it so hot...... That is the reason Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore uses a proprietary crimp on his 360 grain .454 loads -- to safeguard against crimp pull.

I just feel that if one's life is going to depend on the reliability of a tool we use in the field, I want the most fool-proof one of all. I don't think that tool is the FA83. Again, just personal perspective and not an indictment of Freedom Arms. I own and will continue to own FA products, I just stay cognizant of the limitations.

Craig and Whit, you both have good points but I am leaning toward ultra reliability under all situations as being the most important. I do not own a BFR.

Hey Gregg, that's a "rest of the story" kind of post. I did not know you owned Glocks ;^) Seriously, I am not sure whether it has just been luck or what, but in 30 years of firearms ownership I have only really had 2 hadguns actually break from shooting, or go click instead of bang (other then when doing gunsmith/mods/checks). My FA did break both the trigger return and bolt spring, and a Colt had a firing pin come lose in the hammer. I think my FA problems were from me going from the loading hammer position straight to hammer down, without going through the full cocking cycle. The Colt was from dry firing without snap caps (New Frontier). I think both were my fault.

Whitt, I tried to think of any revolvers that I have had that had pull issues, and finally thought of one. A Taurus Titanium Tracker in 45 Colt finally came back to my brain. That gun never tied up due to pull, but the bullets pulled like crazy. If the cylinders had been short, it most certainly would have tied up. And with my FA 454, in the thousands of rounds through my gun, I bet fewer than 75 have been factory loads. Looks like my breadth of experience is a little narrow there.

I have only fired one round in the direction of critter that was capable of doing me harm, certainly not like you and others who have stared down some really big and bad beasts. But I do carry my hunting firearms, including my FA 454, as possible self defense arms against the bad critters we have in the woods around here, both two and four legged. I hope I am not being naive, but the thought of a misfire does not concern me at all.

Craig

I don't think that is naive at all. Rather confidence in carrying a quality weapon. Who cares if it is custom, FA, Taurus, or whatever. As long as you are confident in it, that's what matters. Granted, carrying a Taurus and being confident in it back in the day meant you just bought it and hadn't fired it enough to see what you really had!

I`ed still get the Freedom....

Do you now own and have you ever owned a BFR? Curious from where you have derived your opinion of the quality of BFRs. Not trying to be combative, but when one opines about the virtues of one brand or another I simply want to know if they formed their opinion through experience or some other way. Again, just curious.

Whit, never owned or shot a BFR and really don`t care about them... I`am sure they are fine revolvers and maybe if I had purchased a BFR before a Freedom I might be saying the opposite of above however, with all the animals I have cleanly taken with my Freedom handguns it really does not matter....

Fair enough......

Gentlemen, thank you for all your thoughts and input here. I would have stopped back in earlier, but Thor had me fending off attackers all weekend. So the seven-year-old got some daddy time and my little inquiry got a bit of neglect…

James, thanks for piping up. As one of the forum’s most diehard FA fanatics (Ken is probably the other), it’s good to hear why you are so steadfastly a FA man.

And Bearbait, thank for chiming in with some real world FA experience. I heard a million times that you simply can’t get one dirty and expect it to work. The dust likes to blow around here too, so it’s good to know that some of the wailing might be just so much internet hype.

It’s also nice to know that many of the concerns with Freedom Arms in the field - bullet jump and broken springs in particular - are things that owners simply account for and deal with (load right, carry extra parts).

As far as reliability concerns from bullet pull. I’ll never redline a 475L. Never. But I’ve got a young son and soon enough he’ll be a young man… and sometimes young men just like to push the pedal, for no other reason than the fact that it’s there for the pushin’. So it's something to consider, at least fundamentally.

But all that being said, Whit makes a very strong argument toward sticking with the BFR and getting it customized. The two biggies in my mind are the legendary reliability of the Blackhawk lockwork (broken springs and firing pins, really??) and the Transfer Bar.

Even so, it’s still not an easy decision to make. Configured the same, the FA will always be lighter than an equally appointed BFR. Probably in the neighborhood of a quarter pound or so. A quarter pound less would be nicer for days long carry. A quarter pound more for day long shooting.

For sure and certain the FA83 wins for looks in my mind. I wish someone could figure something to do with that big fat BFR flattop and really wish a hunter-length Ruger ERH would fit on the BFR too. But at my age you begin to realize that in truth, looks don’t mean sh!t. And it’s a dead heat at the target. And that’s where it truly counts.

So I guess there really is no “right” answer. And I guess I’ll just have to chew on it a bit longer. Right now I’m leaning toward customizing my BFR. Then again, if the right FA rolls around…

Odin, I try to assess things without emotion attached. I own and have owned both revolvers in question. I believe that gives me a good foundation from which to be critical. I think we've all put up some compelling points.

That said, you already own the BFR, correct? A custom grip and grip frame mods from JRH will set you back $325.00. Tuning it should cost you another $100.00 or so and you are done. Nothing else to do unless you really want a shorter barrel or something else. For a minimum cash outlay, you are already there. JMHO.

I own 7 FA-83 revolvers and a BFR in 500 JRH. Grizzly Ammo used the BFR in 500 JRH to test their factory load in 500 JRH. The owner told me that the BFR was the most accurate revolver that he has ever fired and he owns many Freedom Arms revolvers, but that was the first BFR that he had used.

Do you not think you could have cleany killed those critters with say , Ruger,Smith&Wesson,Colt,Dan Wesson,Bfr,or alot of others? A firearm is a tool.Choosing one is a personal preference.Blackhawk,Mac,Snap-on,Craftsmen all are tools that do a job,which brand you buy is a personal preference but all will get the job done.I think you are a good shot and put yourself in places to kill critters I do not believe because you had the FA is the only reason they died.jmo

Odin,

I'll provide a different perspective and one that has directed me in my purchases.

Disclaimer - I have not owned nor shot a BFR, but having a "couple" FA's blossom into the double digits (gulp), I have a fair knowledge of their platforms and product line

Well said Durwood.... Just reading the field experience of schunter, bearbait and myself with FA`s SA`s I cannot find any evidence that they are any less of a handgun compared to other makes. Sure things happen... Three weeks before my first hunt in Africa the firing pin broke on my early model 454. These guns did not have the removable firing pin bushing and I sent it back to FA`s to be drilled,tapped and returned in 3 day`s. Another pin broke on my FA`s 357 while hunting at the YO. Ray Garza gave me a spare and it was fixed in 5 minutes.
End of problem..... What I don`t want to get into here is a "mine is better then yours" discussion which is where this seems to be going. So for my money I will continue to buy FA`s, not because I have anything against any other make handgun but because that`s the gun I like. If you like BFR then all the power to you and God bless your children but I like FA.....

That's outdated conventional wisdom that just doesn't hold true any more. If you watch the comings and goings of the used custom revolver market, nobody is losing any money on them. The gunsmiths that build them have very well deserved reputations and people know what they're paying for. You buy a new FA and use it for a year, you're going to lose money on it. You commission a custom gun and use it for a year, you won't lose a dime.

Apart from that, if you've never owned a true custom revolver from a talented gunsmith, you don't know what you're missing. Make no mistake, even if you have a passel of FA's, you ARE missing something. There are very good reasons why I have a bunch of custom guns and not one FA. Just as there are very good reasons why I sent a 50th anniversary Blackhawk off to become a .500JRH, rather than ordering a new FA .500WE. Hell, I could've bought two for what I'll have in the Ruger but I wouldn't have gotten exactly what I wanted either. I wouldn't have it any other way. Do I think the finished product will take a backseat to an FA in any regard? Not hardly.

Completely agree on the new product depreciation - and you'll notice the OP was discussing purchasing a used FA versus changing up his BFR, not a commissioned custom build on a Ruger or other platform.

About not losing a dime on the custom builds, that usually happens in the case of a Bowen, Linebaugh, Harton (and yes Huntington) or similar gunsmith with a long (1 year-plus) wait time where a buyer will absorb any depreciation costs to avoid the wait on a specific custom rig. Want to have your barrel chopped and then have the next buyer pay entirely for it? Not too likely.

I have never paid more than 1200 dollars for a Freedom even Premier grades as I purchased all 7 used. So they do depreciate. In my experience a BFR can be purchased new and upgraded in sights, grip frame mods and Finnish for much less than a new FA-83. Also I have never heard of a BFR firing pin breaking, the same can not be said of the FA.

The firing pin issue was a bad run of pins. Not a long standing issue. At least they can be changed out in seconds. Have one go bad on a ruger and change that one out quickly

Sir, you are a gentleman and an enabler of the highest order. Had I not just signed the purchase agreement on a new house this week, I'd be all over your offer in a heartbeat. Heck, I'd even drive out to KC to do it! (I'm in Salina, BTW). As is, we're gonna sit tight for a bit while all the dollars and cents shake out (of my pockets!). We didn't really figure it would happen this fast, but boom, we're buying a house! Looks like all the fun stuff will sit on the back burner for a while.

Many thanks to you,
Rod

Congratulations on the house! Next time I'm in Salina, I'll still let you fling as much as you want from it. Then you will know when you get ready

Odin,

I am south of Emporia about 20 miles on 99, and while I do not have a FA 475 (insert emoticon with shedding tear here!), I do have a FA83 in the lowly ol' .454 that I would be happy to join you with and burn some powder, should you be in the area.