SW 625m 45Super?

Hi all,

Trying to get some info on the 625JM and 45 super. I have a chance to get a 625jm in a trade that is way in my favor.

Id like to shoot 45 super out of it as a second use for woods work.

I see many posts on people saying a good strong framed revolver chambered in 45acp will do 45 super without a problem as far a pressure goes.

Any real world experience?

I currently handload 45super in a comped glock 21 and am getting 1100fps out of 250gr pinbusters. So by no means are these loads screamers but I think they make a perfect 50yd deer gun being that I have already shot deer with the same load out of my g21 with excellent results.

And before I get replies to contact SW, I already did having a convo with one of the "experts" who insisted 45 super is a shorter case.

Thanks in advance

Dave

It will be fine

Dave,

Been doing 45 Supers in a S&W 625 PC for about a year now. Should be about the same as your JM, as the guns are pretty similar. The biggest difference between yours and mine is the rifling. Mine is broach cut and supposedly the JM is more polygonal. I have seen a ton of posts on the S&W forum where reviews are mixed about the accuracy with the JM and lead. I do know mine shoots straight lead, wonderfully.

As to 250's at 1100, that is about my limit, that I have imposed on mine. But, you may have a problem with the bullets in the unfired chambers, staying in the case. I have two solutions. I roll crimp, and I use 45 Autorim, which is also roll crimped. I note this as if desiring to have the exact same ammo for both the revolver and auto may be a challenge, as a roll crimp is obviously a no go in the Glock. Obviously this is something that you would have to experiment with. I can get to roughly a 250 at 1000 before I start to see some bullet creep, with a taper crimp (same ammo used in my 1911).

You probably have found that many folks refer to having had or know that Clark Custom will chmaber the 625's for the 460 Rowland, a 40K psi round. I have a lot of experience with the Rowland, but still am not comfortable with my 625 at 40K. I run my Supers at what should be in the neighborhood of 28-30K, but if doing so, you are going to be hard pressed to find a lot of information on long term results of doing so. I have not read any detailed experiences of the Rowland in the 625's, from guys actually doing it.

I am very pleased that my gun will function with acp's with and without moon clips, as well as the 45 Autorim which does work perfectly well as a Super or standard loading. Some of the newer 625's have been reported to not headspace correctly, without clips.

I shoot Rowlands and full blown supers out of 1911's, and am trying very hard to be good, and not purchase a 41 MOS. One of my 1911 slides wears a low cut JPoint, but you guys with Glocks seem to have a better platform for pressure, than the 1911. If you are holding your 250's to 1100 fps, then you are certainly not mis-behaving ;^)

Craig

Hi Craig,

Thanks for the reply. I was just talking to Clark Customs this am and he stated the same thing. I dont run my supers nucular by any means... 9.0 grs of powerpistol do the job.

The velocities are in a 4.6 kkm barrel so Im figuring slighty less in the smith.

Ill post results as I go

Thanks again

Dave

As for the crimp jumping, I should be ok just because with the crimp I have on them now seems to hold up in a 13 round mag. Unless the recoil impulse is going to be a little different being in a revolver.

Dave,

Great to hear you had a conversation with Clark.

Unfortunately, the forces that cause bullets to pull in the revolver chamber are not the same as what goes on in a 1911 magazine. Th

Thanks Craig,

Thats good info to have Ill order a roll crimp to experiment with.

That is a major plus not having to police up my pricy super brass.

Thanks Again

Dave

Dave,

Looks like my last post got chopped off? Yes, I use a roll crimp die for my auto rim and the hotter 45 Supers, and as you would expect no issues at all with creep in the revolver.

Don't forget to add more moon clips with your die order, can't have too many loaded up ;^)

Craig

Yep no problem with your loads. I have had my 21 at the limit with the Rowland but since have scaled back. I run my 250s at 1200 from the 21 with no issues. We have been loading .45 Super loads (25,000psi) from the wheelguns with no issues.

Ok sounds good.... My 21 runs like a champ.... Others on here have said that a different crimp is needed....A roll crimp....I cant find other dies for 45 acp to crimp differently though... I currently use lee dies...

one roll crimp die:

[url=http://www.midwayusa.com/product/124288/redding-profile-crimp-die-45-acp-45-auto-rim][/url]

I use this exact die, a redding profile crimp die probably designed for the 45 Auto rim. I use the redding PC Taper crimp die for acp pressure loads, and 25K type Super loads.

This type of die is not needed in my 625 until I get to about 250's doing about 1050 fps. Some bullets a little less velocity, some a little more. You will just have to experiment. It may not be needed, just depends on where you want to go.

Reflex's pressure of 25K is not really a acp++p or Super pressure like you guys have been doing in Glocks. That 25K limit is what you will find doing a little digging on what the S&W can likely take without beating itself to death.

I've taken the Rim Rock .452 255 SWC to 1106 fps, and the Rim Rock 270 SWCFB Kieth to 1056 in my 625, but both of these loads require the roll crimp die I linked to above. With a taper crimp, these two would pull excessively in my gun. These two loads are certainly well above 25k, but probably under the 40k of the Rowland. And no way I would shoot a ton of these out of my 625. Those two loads were done in Auto Rim and Super brass.

Craig

Much thanks Craig,

Just put the order in.... Those velocities you were quoting was just what I was looking for.

Cant wait to get started,

Dave

You and me both, as to getting started. I have some small primer 45acp brass that just arrived, from RWS, which I am hoping will help some of my primer flow issues in my older S70 Colt with Clark barrel (1911). That 62 page 45 Super reloading thread on Glock Talk has given me a few ideas....

Good luck,

Craig

Yea, I printed it out awhile back.... its a wealth of knowledge...

The Super is an absolutely fantastic cartridge, wish it were more popular. I've loaded it from "mild" to equaling the 460 Rowland and had good luck with it in a .45 ACP convertible .45 Colt Blackhawk (and comped G21). At mid range I'm sure it would be okay in a Smith, I prefer the cartridge to keep 250/275's in the 1050-1100 range, 230's in the 1150-1200 range, 200's in the 1250-1300 range and 185's in the 1350+ range, any more and it seems to really beat on the gun pretty hard.

I had my 625 rechambered to 460 Rowland years ago. The main reason was to keep the Hot Loads in something that would not get mixed up and shot out of my 1911.
I have no idea what a Full House 460 feels like. I load mine more like 45 Super.

Bob R

Well, I cured my many year issue with my Colt 1911's and the Super and Rowland. I have been fighting primer flow/blanking issues at what should be about 30K pressures. After studying the Glock Talk long thread, I realized that it looked safe to experiment with "standard" 45 acp brass. I did more research on using small primer pocket acp brass. Turns out RWS makes extremely nice brass, with small primer pockets. I recently tested this brass at 45 Super levels, and what are low Rowland, with small pistol magnum primers, and small rifle.

With both the small pistol magnum and small rifle, I got the cratering and blanking to stop, with the small rifle showing zero signs. Velocities with the same powder charges were almost exactly the same averages as large pistol primer, with the same powder charges using Longshot. But, my extreme spreads were cut almost in half, over using large pistol. Still need to evaluate the accuracy side, but that may be a while, as winter has arrived here. FWIW.

Bob, I think you are first person I have seen with a post on the 625 converted to Rowland. When I got mine (625), I did some measuring on the cylinder wall thicknesses and the net material in the bottom of the bolt notches, and decided that while I might not blow a cylinder with full on Rowland pressures in Super brass, I would be terrified of blowing a notch, every time I pulled the trigger. Per my results above, I am going to step up the Supers in my 1911 a tad, but no way in my 625.

45BBH, the Super is actually much more popular than it was 15 years ago, about the time I started with the Rowland. Back then, it would not have even been noted in a thread discussing the Rowland. Today, I am not sure anyone could do any research on higher pressure 45's and not see it noted, for consideration. My feeling is that the 45 Super is only going to get more popular, with time.

Craig