BIG BORES: SHOOTERS OR HUNTERS?

I WAS CHATTING WITH A BUDDY LATELY ABOUT SHOOTING THE BIG BORES. I STARTED WITH FA 454's BY BUYING 2 THAT I HAD STALKERIZED @ 8 3/8ths BY MNP, AND ADDED 45 COLT CYLINDERS, IN WHICH I LOADED 454 EQUIVALENT 45 COLT LOADS. I SHOT THESE GUNS A LOT WITH THE SUPER HOT 45 COLT LOADS IN LOAD DEVELOPMENT, SIGHTING IN, PRACTICING, HUNTING AND JUST SHOOTING. I THEN STARTED USING LIL'GUN AND THAT WAS THE COUP DE GRACE FOR THESE 2 FINE REVOLVERS. ACCURACY BEGAN TO SUFFER AND I HAD BOTH REBARRELED BY FA. LIL'GUN IS APPARENTLY TOO HOT, EATS UP THE FORCING CONES, AND IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR REVOLVER LOADS. I THEN GOT A FA 353 357 MAG. REVOLVER AND THAT IS MY PRIMARY PRACTICE REVOLVER IF I AM GOING TO HUNT WITH MY FA 454's. ONE OF THE MNP STALKERS HAS A POOR TRIGGER AND IT IS THE ONLY 454 I PRACTICE WITH, AND THEN NOT MUCH.

WHEN I AM PREPARING FOR A BIG HUNT, e.g. AFRICA OR ALASKA, I LIKE TO PRACTICE AT LEAST TWICE A WEEK, ONCE MIDWEEK AND ONCE WEEKEND, WHICH IS BETTER THAN BACK TO BACK DAYS. I WILL SHOOT 50 ROUNDS WITH THE 353 AND 12 WITH THE 454, 3 & 3 OFF THE BENCH WITH THE 353 THEN 3 OFF HAND WITH THE 353, THEN 3 WITH THE 454 (MOSTLY OFF A REST), THEN 3 & 3 OFF THE BENCH WITH THE 353, etc. I FAVOR SHOOTING OFF A BENCH REST, OR OTHER REST, OVER OFF HAND BECAUSE I BELIEVE YOU CAN BEST PRACTICE TRIGGER SQUEEZE THAT WAY.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE 3 GUN COMPETITORS AND COWBOY SHOOTERS, I DON'T GIVE A DARN ABOUT HOW FAST I CAN SHOOT A RIFLE OR A SHOTGUN, I ONLY CARE ABOUT KILLING THE ANIMAL I AM SHOOTING AT WITH MY REVOLVER, SO WHEN IN SERIOUS PREPARATION FOR A BIG HUNT I WOULD NOT SHOOT A RIFLE OR SHOTGUN, AND WOULD LIMIT MY PLAY TIME WITH ANY HANDGUN TYPE OTHER THAN A FA REVOLVER.

I NOW HAVE 1 8 3/8ths MNP STALKER FOR HUNTING PLUS 10 INCH AND 12 INCH STALKERIZED 454/45 COLTS, ALSO FOR HUNTING, AND ONLY SHOOT THEM TO CHECK ZERO AND TO KILL. THESE GUNS, THEIR SCOPES AND THEIR OWNER ARE GOING TO LAST A LOT LONGER THAT WAY.

I QUESTION THE PRACTICE OF USING TOP END LOADS IN THE BIG BORES FOR PRACTICE, PLINKING, SHOOTING AND THE LIKE, YOU CAN PRACTICE, PLINK AND SHOOT WITH LIKE GUNS USING MORE SEDATE ROUNDS OR LOADS AND SAVE ON WEAR AND TEAR ON YOU AND YOUR GUNS AND SAVE MONEY TOO.

Rey, About how many rounds did you shoot using Lil Gun, when you noticed accuracy failing???

One thing I found out after all these years shooting handguns is if I don`t practice I lose accuracy on my target... Its not like a bike where you can get on one after 10 years and ride it....
Like Rey says above...shooting his FA`s 357 helps keep him sharp.

Great school of thought. Same reason I got my Ruger Blackhawk 45 Convertible "Goldiloks". I practice alot with the 45acp cylinder, and check the sights and plan to hunt with the 45lc cylinder. This also provides more shots for less money.

I practice alot of free hand and seated positions with my turkey hunting seat that I carry with me every time I plan on ground hunting. I also like to shoot one round up close, then move back and shoot another round and so on, until I can get all six shots on target from any distance. I will also sit in brush and weave my shot to the target, just like I'm hunting. I don't bench shoot much, unless you consider resting my forearms against it like a fallen log, bench shooting.

JAMES: I DO NOT RECALL THE ROUND COUNT WITH LIL'GUN, BUT BOB BAKER AT FA WAS AWARE OF THE PROBLEM WITH LIL'GUN EATING UP THE BARREL THROAT. AS I RECALL I SPOKE TO HIM ABOUT THE ACCURACY ISSUES AND HE IS THE ONE WHO ASKED IF I WAS USING LIL'GUN.

THE MORE I SHOOT THE BETTER I GET, THERE IS SOME RESIDUAL TO YEARS OF PRACTICE BUT THERE IS DEFINITELY A DROP OFF IF YOU DO NOT SHOOT REVOLVERS ON A REGULAR BASIS. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, AFTER YEARS OF IGNORING THE 22 LR, DURING THE RECENT 22 SHORTAGE I REDISCOVERED THE 22 LR AND HAVE BEEN SHOOTING IT MORE OFTEN IN SA AND DA REVOLVERS.

With my heavy kickers, such as my 300 Win Mag Encore, Model 460, and CVA Optima, I use full power hunting loads for practice because I'm trying to get accustomed to the recoil. Granted, I have a 221 Fireball barrel for general practice, but there's no replicating the massive recoil impulse developed by my handcannons.

Over the years ive gotten used to the full bore loads and pretty much practice with them alot. For each big hunt i generally load 100 rounds. May make a hunt or a season with it in a given cartridge. I practice with 90 and hunt with 10. Then i have the guns with loads i use all the time that are favorites and then i have practice rounds with bullets that arent as good but cheaper and if i feel my shooting is regressing i go shoot some 22 and work up to the 41 and 44's then back to the bigguns. Its a bit
Of a rotation for me.

I go back and forth. At the moment I have one Super 14 22LR barrel set up with a 2.5-7 Burris, and a second set up with a Red Dot. That gives me cheap trigger time with both sights. I am also working with both 357 Maximum's, as well as my 35 BullBerry. I have also dusted off my 6.5x30JDJ barrel, and have 5 different loads ready to chronograph through it probably tomorrow. I will also work with my 480 SRH some before deer season.
I do not seem to have any issues going from rimfire to harder kicking rounds and back.
In my experience Trigger Time is Trigger Time. Shooting hard kickers exclusively you can develop bad habits that you may not realize you have picked up. Just my observations.

Bob

I've tried to keep it simple the last 39 years. Whatever I'm going to use on the coming year's big game hunts, I use those guns almost exclusively when hunting groundhogs that year. That's why I have so much data on trajectory (long range) and bullet performance on the big boys- .454, .475, .500. .375/.284, .376 Steyr, .416 Taylor.
I don't do this with reduced rounds. Can't learn anything about my performance or the gun's that way. Maybe I and the guns suffer a little, but I have no surprises about my or the gun's performance on my expensive hunts.

Hey James, You asked how many rounds it took (regarding the usage of Lil Gun). My friend "Muddy" who is a contributor to this forum as well, can confirm as well that it only takes 50 rounds (maybe even less), because we both unfortunately know. I almost think we may have been the two customers that brought this Lil Gun issue to Bob Baker and the team there at Freedom Arms. We were able to confirm that all was well with our forcing cones prior to the first rounds being fired using Lil Gun. Then after just 50 rounds our forcing cones were shot. That powder may be great in many other applications, but it should be avoided in 454 Casull loads in a Freedom Arms revolver (unless you were considering a new barrel length anyway.

Dano, Thank`s for the head`s up info about Lil Gun powder... It started out so promising a powder for big bore`s and finally come down to this... 50 rounds and a damaged barrel is bad....so very bad.... thanks for sharing your experience while at the same time I must say that was a shi-tty way to find out about LIlGun powder... Thank you again. Sincerely, James

Dano can you tell me how much "Lil Gun" was used in your loads? I read 50 rounds but, was it about 30grs per round or more? See what I mean?

cherokeetracker, I do see what you mean and I also see why you are asking that. It is impossible to know when you're reading these forums, what kind of reloading practices that others exercise. Unfortunately I no longer have the load that I used. I didn't keep record of it and have actually since forgotten it. The load that I used was not over max from the Hodgdons manual/magazine (at the time). I remember thinking that early in the 454 Casull's life, had the only powder been Lil Gun, then we possibly would have never known what a great cartridge it is. I know that the forcing cone erosion was not due to the bullet I was using because I was shooting the FA 260 Grn JFP. Its jacket is thick enough to handle the 454 pressures. I truly am amazed at some of the powder (not bullet) companies loading data and bullets they suggest. Some of those bullets are just to thin of a jacket for the high pressure Casull loads.

cherokeetracker

The heaviest powder charge I used with Lil Gun was 31.0 grains. 300 grain bullets were the lightest that I tried. Like James said.....not a good way to find out about the powder. It took a while along with a few barrels to find out the cause of the erosion. When Dano eroded the forcing cone on his barrel, he didn't mention that the same gun had been in use several years with no issues using primarily H110 powder.

Dan