T/C Continues Downslide

Jim Shepard reports in today's shooting wire that, "In Rochester, New Hampshire this week, more layoffs at Thompson/Center Arms. Company owner Smith & Wesson has reportedly furloughed thirty-seven workers and laid off sixy-six others. That's nearly 29 percent of Thompson's full workforce. Combined with the thirty six layoffs last March and eighty more in September, the T/C workforce is down to about fifty percent of what it was a year ago.

Smith & Wesson says the layoffs are in response to the continued low demand for T/C's black-powder hunting rifles."

To bad to hear that, but I guess I am not surprised

MS has now said that you can use an Encore Rifle 35 cal or larger as a Muzzle Loader. I know when that OK'ed the NEF single shots everyone quit shooting the Black Powder for the most part.

Does anyone think TC will survive S&W ?

I think the main problem with T/C is diversification or lack of, basicly they specialize in single shot rifles and handguns and muzzleloaders both of which our out of the mainstream. As much as we may like our contenders and encores the fact remains most hunters buy centerfire repeating rifles and most people looking for a handgun are doing so for defenser or recreation which means autos and revolvers.

i can imagine S&W completely obsorbing TC and then continuing the more profitable products under the S&W name.The question is what will they consider worth keeping?

I could see them keeping the Icon, Encore & G2 Contender.

I would say the old style black powder stuff may go away.

You cant tell me they are not making money selling a 14" pipe with a sight for $250

In my probably biased opinion, they have played too much to the long gun market. When is the last time you saw a handgun hunting article that covered T/C's? It's catch 22; the magazines don't like running handgun hunting articles because they can't get advertising support. Companies like T/C and Smith complain because they aren't selling enough guns in that niche. Believe me I've lived this circular argument for the past several years. No magazine from any of the large publishing companies is going to run articles if they can't leverage that editorial into ad dollars. By the same token, magazine subscriptions are down because they all have painfully similar content.

I think TC screwed up when they didn't get on the smokeless powder muzzleloader bandwagon with Savage.......It wouldn't take much to build a smokeless powder Encore muzzleloader and I'd buy one.......that's about the only reason I'd buy an Encore......

Well, I subscribe to a couple of US gun magazines. American Handgunner occasionally runs handgun hunting articles (although its editor, typically, in a recent issue described his African hunting safari - with a rifle!), and JD Jones has a good column. But Handguns (which is a derivative of G&A if I understand the setup) had a number of letters to the editor in which regular people stated that they didn't want to have any articles on handgun hunting, based on the illogical argument that "if I want handgun hunting articles, I read a hunting magazine". I have not seen many even in US hunting magazines (with the exception of this excellent site, of course).

What also puzzles me is that some authors actually argue that there is a growing trend of handgun hunting in the US. This sounds good, but I hear from other sources - like The Sixgunner - that numbers are down all the time. Maybe this goes for all forms of hunting as well. What also is striking for me as a European is the obvious presence of bowhunting in the US - the bowhunters have been very successful in establishing themselves as mainstream hunters, whereas people even in the US often seem to be suspicious against handgun hunting despite the handgun's obvious advantages as a hunting tool compared to the more mesolithic alternatives. Both bowhunting and handgun hunting are illegal in most European countries, although bowhunting is legal in some (probably even in Sweden from this summer onwards). I fail to understand why this is the case. Could be the general hoplophobia, as Jeff Cooper called it, against guns and handguns in particular. This factor often explains a lot of otherwise irrational things.

I also do not understand TC's decline. I have had two G-2 frames ordered for well over a month. Have not received delivery yet. Obviously, the wholesaler does not have any. Yet, TC is laying off workers. Possibly the workers were all (or mostly) in the BP type production rather than the contender & encore production.

I do agree that the hunting handgun is a niche market. We currently (and will continue to) represent a very small segment of the hunters and of the gun buyers.

I am in the process of gathering what I think I (and my grandsons) will need for the forseeable future. In the past 4 months I have purchased or currently have on order --- 5 contender frames and 8 barrels. When you add in the scopes & mounts, etc., I have done my share to stimulate the economy.

I guess I will have to do my part and buy a contender and a couple of barrels! I think that anything that is related to any type of recreation is going to take a hit while the economy is bad, I just hope that TC will survive. A contender with a 7mmtcu barrel is on my ever growing list of handguns that I want.

The G2 frame I just bought from the local sportsmans warehouse was the last they will carry, they are discontinuing carrying the G2 frames and contender barrels.

How many $800-$1000 Performance center guns are selling? Granted I have a nice S&W collection, but I get them at great prices from a gun shop friend who gets them in trade. I'm not spending anywhere $800 for any of them. I think smoke polers are a small fraction of the hunting demographics and S&W is eliminating those assets from the PnL. Gary, set up a poll--how many guys who own TC's actually have a BP powder barrel for it or even own a TC BP gun. I'll bet the number is small.

Where is Greg Ritz at now? Is he to busy hunting all over the world with all the money he got by selling the company to care? Does he still work for S&W?

I would like to know if he thought that selling TC to S&W was good for TC, it's employees and customers or was it all about the big money for himself.

S&W has taken over what else must one say.

I once read that when the "bean counters" take over a company/corporation, it is then DOOMED

BTW 0- I own 12 TC contender bbls & 2 encore bbls. I own no smoke pole bls. I also own 6 TC contender frames & 1 encore frame.

Well, like has already been stated, with as many custom shops as there are making barrels at VERY competitive prices, it is no wonder that they are having problems.

I have owned several traditional TC muzzleloaders, but only own one of their mls now with 3 barrels (.32, .56SB & .62SB). I never understood why they added a rubber recoil pad to their Renegade muzzleloaders a few years ago. The Renegade is a generic traditional gun, but the last thing I want on a traditional ml is a recoil pad. I think the pad put a halt to Renegade sales.

One reason for TCs decline IMO is their prices. They seem to keep climbing to the point that its hard to justify buying a new barrel. In many cases a good used revolver can be purchased for just a little more than the cost of a new barrel. Like TCMan said, they are near the price of most custom shops anymore, for the same barrel they always made. Part of the appeal of Contenders was their affordability. I'm putting together a Contender carbine for my son right now. For less than the price of a barrel alone I could have bought him a new youth model NEF Handi-Rifle.

I agree Pab, I looked up the price on some of these new Encore ml packages and I can buy a weatherby ultralight for about 200.00 more and the barrels for the contender are now 200.00-300.00 with most falling right in the middle and although I don't own an encore it seems like the barrels for it start around 300.00. I own one TC muzzleloader and that's because it was handed down to me, it's a .50 cal Hawken which is a very nice gun but I've never hunted with it because there are very few muzzle loader only seasons here that are worth wasting your time trying to draw.

Are you freaking kidding me? What kind of statement is that. Don't you know we are all under the same sky. If "bean counters" got into any firearms company, I think it would help that company! S&W and TC will still have the same following no matter who is making them!

The economy is way screwed up to blame beaners or gun manufactures!

TC needs to put more effort in having there g2/encore pistls in stock at major stores like bass pro or cabelas. In my area there are no stores that even carry the tc hunting pistols. They can only be ordered for people who ask for them. But they are missing alot of sells to people who have no knoledge of this type of firearm.