After talking with a few gun shops about store bought bullets I am very confused and need your espertise.
What type (JHP, SP, etc) and weight of store bought 9mm bullet is suggested for killing a Black Bear at 15 ft to less than 5 ft out of a 4" barrel?
I know a 9mm is not a round for hunting/killing a Black Bear.... but if in a last resort measure while coyote hunting.... that is all I have.
Thanks,
Mike

I would buy the new Winchester PDX1 bonded bullet in 147 gr. It is a very tough bullet and will hold together very well. I have seen what it does on average size eastern NC whitetail deer and it performed extremly well. Wally world sells them here. MAke sure it is the bonded version.

I'd consider a FMJ for penetration. Definately not a HP.

X2 on the FMJ, penetration is what you want.

Personally,I would go with a FMJ for the simple reason for penetration. That hide is tough on a black bear and even at only 15 ft. the 9mm is marginal at best for bear defense.

maybe check out the Extreme Shock brand of ammo and their load labeled for greater penetration. There is a write up on their ammo on gunblast.com where Jeff shoots a couple of hogs with a 9mm and Extreme Shock ammo with impressive results.

I have not used this ammo myself, but would consider it if i were in your situation.

I have personally seen the results of a 45 ACP with FMJ rounds trying to dispatch a wounded 130 pound black bear. the results were less than satisfactory, with more than one round found underneath the skin, and creating no damage to the skull what so ever. be careful.

I think that may have more to do with the propellant than the projectile.

It's basicly just a bad situation trying to use a 9mm period. I was talking to one of my local customers I'm building a custom AK47 pistol for and he just got back from serving in Iraq and Afghanistan with the Marines and he said they all hated the Beretta and went out of their way to avoid it's use because of it's inefficiency as a man killer and men are much more fragile than bears. The problem with full jacketed ball ammo is the same reason it's Geneva convention compliant. They make a very small wound channel. I have seen flat nose full jacketed ammo before and that may be marginally better. So far the best option sounds like the bonded ammo assuming it's not a HP otherwise if you handload look at the Oregon Trail Lasercast 147gr FP, the Lasercast line has a brinnel hardness of 18 which is much tougher than most commercially loaded lead bullets and will give you penetration with some expansion and I would load them to +p levels if your gun will take it. The next option if you don't reload is from Grizzly cartridge and it's there 9mm Extreme +p with a 110gr Barnes HP. The Barnes (although an hp) isn't going to just crater on the hide and should give fair penetration. The best option is if your going to be in bear country pick up a 41 mag or bigger (preferably the bigger the better). That's just my 2 cents worth.

s4s4u,

that maybe so, and I cannot vouch for the distance, but I believe it was close because the tracking was done in the evening. but as far as the actual round goes, i do not know. I was there during skinning, and there was at least one round found just under the hide

I would stay clear of the Extreme Shock ammo, its unreliable. If you are going to use FMJ get some flat point FMJ, it will cause more damage.

I personally would lean more towards a +P hollow point like the Gold Dot, Federal HST/Hydra-Shock or Winchester PDX-1/Ranger SXT at 147grn(this is my current load).

But like wapitirod I would recommend going to something more heavy duty if your slogging through bear country on a regular basis. .357mag minimum for a revolver, and if your a auto guy a 10mm (roughly equivalent to the .41mag).

something else to consider is what is legal. I realize it's a back up gun but I know here in Oregon solids are illegal, in fact the way it's written you could derive that hard cast are illegal to use on animals. The last time I looked at the law it said something to the affect of non expanding and full metal jacketed bullets were illegal. The point is if you get the wrong cop even if it's a back up gun and the ammo is illegal you could be in for a headache.

Actually much closer to the 357 Mag, but the 357 is an adequate for black bear at close range.

Rod makes a good point, even a backup gun might have to be legal for taking big game. And here, 357 Mag is the minimum, though they make exception for the 10mm.

I think the 10mm is closer to the .41 mag then the .357. It has nearly the diameter as the .41 and you can push 200 grain bullets into the 1,300 fps zone. Double Tap has some great loads including a 230 grainer. This is pretty much out of reach for the .357. Nothing against the .357, but over the years the 10mm has been emasculated to the point that it resembles a .40 Smith, than what it was originally intended to be. JMHO.

there isn't a cougar or black bear alive that won't be stopped with a 10mm and double taps hardcast loads, i know of 2 people that handily took bison with these loads. one shot kills on both and had pass throughs on the shoulders at 50 yards. it's alot more comforting that a 357 imho

The 10mm is close to the 41 in diameter only. If you can get the 10 to push a 200 @ 1,600+ I may change my opinion. Nothing wrong with the 10, one is on my list, but it ain't no 41.

No, definietly not a .41 Mag, but it's significantly more than a .357 IMO. Kinda fills the gap between them but in an autoloader.

That would be a fair assessment. I hunted off-and-on with a 41 for years, it gets the job done. But when a tough spell came along and I had to sacrifice either the Bisley 41 or the Bisley 45 to pay the bills, well......

You know ;-)

I hear ya!

Wow, did not know I would kick up such a fuss when I mentioned the 10mm.

I know that 41 mag can be more powerful but if you look at common load like a 180grn XTP both have the same ballistic characteristics, 1,350fps yielding 728 ft/lbs. They come close in a couple of other weights as well(just by the numbers, I have no ideas as to factory loads).

Just figured I would mention the similarity. The man said that he had a 9mm, figured it was an automatic and if he wanted something more potent in a similar platform 10mm's probably the best caliber for the job.

Nobody's fussin', just discussin'

Like any family get-together ;-)

Exactly!

Keep Preaching! LOL

I haven’t posted a thing there... yet... but I sure have learned a few things. Bladesmith, thanks for kicking up a few dust bunny’s!