I know a few of you guys are from CO and have been in that state a lot longer than me. I have for the last 4 years been throwing my first hunt choice at preference points and hunting the "second choice" public lands. NF, BLM, etc. I'm saving points for a hunt that I want, and second choices are all I get for a couple of more years.

I've gone out with an elk tag and seen deer and vice-versa. I haven't been lucky yet, but I love walking those mountains so I don't care.

I just stumbled on to this State Trust Land section of the CDOW and wonder, what are my chaces of getting away from the tourist hunters and guys that don't want to work as hard as I do on these lands? It seems that they are "non-motorized" and walk in mostly.

Are these plots as crowded as the typical NF/BLM lands?

Are they productive?

I think I'll spend some time hiking in these and maybe try for a tag next year after I have a unit in mind.

Your thoughts?

If I remember correctly, its been a few years since I lived there so bare with me. Those lands are often very good. They were very productive for me. If you can find land such as those or national Forest land that is accessible only from private land, the law use to be that the land owner couldn't block access to these lands. Most tourists have no idea of these laws and see the private land as a no access point. Look into that law. I would call the co state wildlife office and verify this. Those lands are some of the best.

I can't say for sure about Colorado but it sounds similiar to what we have here in OR. We have certain units that are pack in only with no motor vehicle access including atv's. I have not hunted these units in the past because I had good hunting ground but now because of my health but I do know guys that do. These units usually produce the best quality animals in the state including mulies, rocky mtn elk and pronghorn. We also have a similiar law as mentioned above about private land owners having to allow access to landlocked public land. I know a state trooper that found one of these spots in the middle of a big ranch that has lease hunting. They tried to keep people out but failed and this guy I know has a 100% success ratio on elk in this little island of land and almost nobody knows where it is. I don't even know it's exact location.

Re: Colorado State Trust Land question (Gregg?)



I have no personal experience with the Colorado State Trust Lands...sorry.

The info submitted above sounds accurate from what I have heard...

My forty-plus years of Colorado hunting experience is with general public lands and especially private lands.

Pretty good info guys, thanks. I knew you had racked up a ton of hours in these mountains Gregg so I figured it was worth a shot to ask. When I get home I'll pick a couple that look promising but still off the beaten path, and do some hiking. I really like the idea of no motorized vehicles, I don't mind working for it. 2012 will be my next hunt in CO and hopefully in 2013-14 I draw something really good.

Zac, you're welcome. I enjoy helping out handgun hunters if I can give accurate advice.

Zac,

Some of these lands can be very productive. The key is to get good maps. The 7.5 minute quadrangle maps are pretty nice as well as the local federal Forest maps. They will differentiate the federal from state, as you also can have school parcels and other state lands to consider. Sometimes access can be tricky, even involving stepping across diagonal corners of land that adjoins only on the tips of ownership. GPS can help a ton, as long as you do not rely upon the actaul GPS maps for actual ownership, unless you can cross reference paper maps, or confirm in other ways.

It can be pretty tough to find your own little hidey holes in Colorado, but once you eliminate the ATV's for access, you will loose a big chunk of hunters. Not all, but a significant number.

Even in big chunks of Federal land, good maps which show roads can be a great aid to getting away from the masses. Many times it is about looking a map over for the most inaccessible stuff, away from the nearest roads, steep, deep, timber covered, etc. Now adays we have aerials, google maps etc. that allow for a lot of the homework to be done on the computer. The trick is to use everything that you can find to scout from the comfort of your computer, then put in the legwork. Then head out to the area, and try to track down the local Division of Wildlife folks. I have never met a local officer who was not willing to help in some way.

And the last little bit of advice is to not get too wrapped around the axle about having found the one place no one else has found. You can scout up till the day before the opener, and still find that you are not the only smart cookie in the box. But, when you bump into someone way back in, or down or through the mess, you will probably find them to be friendly and helpful. Not to disparage ATV or road hunters, but you almost have to see Colorado in it's full out-of-sate hunter glory to appreciate it.

Craig

Thanks for all the responses,

I've hunted in Pike NF a few years, trying to stay close to home. I've found a couple of nice spots, one 2 yrs ago was real nice but just didn't have elk. It had more deer than I could count (no deer tag) just no elk. I think it could be good depending where the herds were. I walked about 2 miles to avoid private land only to find another route back to the truck only some 500 yds away. It had a small creek between 2 parcels of private land and the creek itself was still public. I bumped some guys up there that had better maps and showed me the way out. Real helpful guys and they invited me to join their spot a couple more nights.

Another time about 2 miles from the car, I had started real early to get to a spot before sun-up. Hunted the morning then stood up around 10 and another hunter above me waved from a hill 60 yds away. Thought it was funny to be that far from concrete and even dirt roads, and two guys had the same idea for the same spot. Had lunch with that guy before parting ways for the afternoon.

You're right about the people you bump being courteous and helpful. I really just don't want to ruin someones hunt.

I'll study the maps more and expand my hunting areas a little further from home. Pike NF is nice but crowded because of it's proximity to Col Springs and Denver.

Zac, When I lived in CO back in the early 80's I can remember spending weeks scouting an area up the poudre canyon. Never saw another person the entire time. Saw large numbers of mulies and was psyched for opening day. Set up my camp in the afternoon and by midnight several trucks had clawed their way into the area. Opening morning looked like someone flew overhead and thru out a bunch of orange confetti!. It was depressing. I still shot a mulie an hour after sun rise.
Don't give up!

Zac,

One thing you will learn about Colorado elk, especially in areas with tracts of private land that are not hunted, the elk know where this land is, and they know when they need to be there. Sometimes you can use this to your advantage, depending upon weather and the migrations of a particular year.

Anything within a few hours of the front range is gonna be brutal during rifle season. Sometimes it pays to spend that extra hour or two hiking on an extra hour or two of driving to get further out.

Nuther little trick. Take a drive during the archery season, and note where you see rigs parked along highways and roads that seem like "odd" places to park a rig. This is quite common along I70. We had a spot on I70 that we would sometimes use during archery. It was an old mill site, not far from the highway as the crow flies, but straight up a pretty steep stretch. None of the out-of-staters would even consider it, but the few locals that knew of it made for a less crowded situation.

And the last tip when using these smaller hidey holes, get the National Geographic 7 Point Bull with 200 cows out of your noggin. You will more than likley be looking for singles. Good optics and good glassing skills in tight cover. Not looking for piles of droppings covering vast areas. perhaps little sign at all. And when looking at aerial or satellite imagery, those little openings that you see in the trees that look green and lush but pretty tiny can hold good green grass pretty late into the season, and can be a magnet stop over point for migrating elk. When over laid with contour maps, what you are looking for is these little openings on benches (wider contour lines)that might also hold seasonal water. Preferably on some dark timbered steep ugly mountain side.

Craig

A few years ago, a local hunter hired me to pack his and his buddy's camp and supplies in to a fairly remote area within a couple hours of Denver, for the muzzleloading season. It was a spot he had chosen; and one that I knew to be a hotspot for elk, albeit public land. This was in September; the best month to enjoy the beautiful Colorado aspens, to boot.

Winding up across the face of that brutal mountain, that gnarly trail kept getting not only steeper, but rockier and rockier. With bigger and bigger rocks. And the horses were starting to have problems with their footing. And stumbling. At several points on the trail, you had to step up onto a boulder, about a 2 to 3 foot rise in some cases; and I was worried about my horses; not only going up, but then knowing that we had to come back down again. My horses are tried and proven and have packed a ton of gear as well as numerous elk over the past fifteen plus years, but they are not mountain goats. A horse needs and demands good footing; being a prey animal they know that their legs are their life.

And the trail continued to get steeper...and the horses were stumbling more often; it was getting downright scary.

Travis, the horse I was riding and leading with, finally stopped. He knew better. He had decided that was as far as he was going. Although I tried my best, I could not get him to go one step further. I had only one choice: that was to tie him by the trail and leave him until we came back down. NOT a decision that I made lightly. But I knew Travis was level headed; we had been through a lot together, and I told him that I would be back. My clients expected me to finish the job they were paying me for, so from then on I walked and lead the other horses, and my clients (who chose to walk rather than pay for two more horses) brought up the rear. They were younger than me.

We finally made it to the top, and I dropped off their gear just below timberline. It had been a grueling hike for me and my bad knees. I rode Bojo back down, thankfully, and leading Dakota. My heart was elated when as we rounded a bend in the trail, there stood Travis, patiently waiting for us! And very happy to see us also.

The reason for this story? Please stay with me.

As I carefully led my little packstring down the rugged trail and dark was closing in, and we made it safely back to my rig, my thoughts were: I bet those guys will have a great hunt; it is beautiful up there on top. But I am not looking forward to picking them up and packing out their elk!

Well, as it turned out, they did not kill an elk. Opening morning they were up and hunting and thought they had that little piece of God's land to themselves.

But their dream was shattered when a couple of hikers came by their camp around noon.

And several more came through later that day and the next.

Because they did not get an elk, and their packs were much lighter with the food eaten, the disappointed hunters chose not to have me come up and get them, much to my relief; and they packed out their gear on their backs.

Again, if hunting public land, the further that you can get away from the front range, the better off you will probably be.

Gregg,

I do not have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times we found ourselves either on a hikers route, rouge ATV folks, 50 rig jeep safari's, mushroom pickers/campers, last trip of the year campers, wood cutters, you name it. Granted, this was mostly archery season, so the trade off with rifle seems to be out of state hunters for in-state folks recreating. We call ourselves "elk gypsies". We can have camp down and be onto another spot in pretty short order.

I am surprised their trip could have been wrecked soley by hikers, unless the remote spot below timberline had that pesky Continental Divide trail running through it ;^). I once spent the better part of a day trailing an elk herd around near Yampa, at the base of the Flattops. Those elk were diggin' it in the boulder fields and rock outcrops. I filed that one away in the old pea brain, "note to self, elk can live in the rocks". But rocks surely do suck, especially when you hop up on one the size of a school bus, only to have it start to teeter and slip...... Buy hey, rocks in the high country of Colorado mean recreational opportunities, I mean marmmots.

Craig

Lots of good advice given here. The plain truth of it from my experience is that it doesn't matter how far away you get from the front range, you will still run into people (lots of them). The solution I have found is to concentrate on going somewhere truly NASTY. If you are in CO and anywhere near a road, trail, or even moderate grade, there will be a surplus of either hippies or hunters (or both). What is NASTY for a pack string would be easy walking on foot. The downside to this, is that even though you are closer to the front range (home for you I am guessing), you will need more time to pack out whatever you bag. A couple of strong friends wouldn't hurt either! The Pike NF is just fine but be prepared to SWEAT to get away from the city hordes. Be prepared to sweat even more if you are successful. Also try to use BLM land. All locals & most out of state westerners know of it but out of staters from back east usually don't. If you have a silver spoon, you can always go on private land which is a veritable shang ri la! But be prepared to sell an arm & a leg to get on it! I have less respect for the folks who do it that way. Reminds me too much of the old world and the nobility, lol. Also I am not 100% sure, but I believe that there is no law that requires land owners to grant you access to public lands that are "landlocked" by private land. I am fairly sure they don't have to. Please check before you accidentally tresspass. Also look into Ranching for Wildlife tags. Its like private land food stamps for poor people who normally wouldn't be able to hunt private land.

You of course, coloradosherpa, are entitled to your opinion. But let me share some things you may not be aware of with some private land hunters, and some owners.

I have spent my fair share of time hunting public lands, and indeed took my world record mule deer on public lands. I also have had access to private lands for hunting over the years. And I assure you it is not because I have a silver spoon. I can honestly say that only one time have I ever paid to get on a private ranch for myself, and that was how I got in with the Durham Buffalo Ranch to antelope hunt the very first time, where the rest of that story is history.

I found out early on that maintaining a relationship with a rancher or farmer can be very hard work (at the very least it takes a lot of TIME) but can pay off in hunting priviledges. Many private landowners would rather know you as a friend that helps them out in some way, and give you permission to hunt, than accept money from a complete stranger for hunting access. For instance, hunting varmints can certainly get your foot in the door, which has happened to me countless times for elk and deer hunting access, by asking permission first to shoot coyotes or prairie dogs. I have also gained access by helping with ranch chores, and just plain by driving up and politely introducing myself, and asking permission. And eventually, if you make a good impression, your reputation will spread and you will find that the rancher's friends will also let you hunt. Note that this all takes very hard work and lots of time.

In reality, I believe it is far easier to hunt public lands, because all you have to do is drive there and go, than it is to hunt private lands, where it takes year around work if you do it without your silver spoon. I definitely have more respect for the hunter who works harder for their hunt, whether it be on public, or private land, depending on the individual circumstances.

And not to mention this: Just because you have access to private lands, does not make it necessarily any easier hunting than on some public lands. I have killed several nice bull elk and buck mule deer on public lands that were far easier hunts than some private land deer and elk that I have killed.

Unless the law has changed since I lived in CO, landowners who border public land do have to grant access to that public land. I was involved with a dispute several years ago as we entered a road that was not posted but was theu private land. It was the only access to the public land. The rancher stopped us and called the division of wildlife to come arrest us. The wildlife officer made a few calls came back to the rancher and told him the law states he couldn't block the only access to that public land and that he couldn't post it either. When we got back to campus (CSU) one of my fellow hunters was a wildlife biology student and he worked as a researcher for the Division of wildlife. He checked with the folks there and they told him the same thing the other wildlife officer had told us.