Hey guys,

I have a S&W 657 in 41 Rem Magnum and a Marlin 1894c in 357mag that I have started casting bullets for. I was wondering how fast can I push these bullets before I have leading issues? When do I need to use gas checks. I have noticed that so far(limited experimentation) the 41mag likes jacketed bullets above 1450 for decent groups. I have not shot any cast bullets yet. I am hopeing to use both to hunt with useing the cast bullets.

I am useing straight wheel weights for the bullets.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Nick

I believe standard wheel weights have a brinnel hardness of about 16 and if you want to push a bullet to 1450+ you'll want to add tin to get it to 22-24. I don't cast as I don't have the time so you'll need to do some reading to get the correct ratio's as I don't remember what they are. The bullets your casting out of straight wheel weights are best kept around a 1000fps or less to avoid leading problems and I believe it's around 1200fps or so you start getting deformation issues. You can buy ingots from Midway but I don't remember if the were premixed or not and the guys that cast can probably tell you if you can add straight tin or not and where to get it. I had researched this pretty thoroughly as I was going to start casting but i'm lucky just to have time to reload with everything else I have going on. If I need cast now I just go with Oregon Trail True Cast which seem to have an Edge over Cast Performance which is my second choice but at this point with the new technology in jacketed bullets I've found that Jacketed bullets will handle anything in north america for sure most of what's in Africa short of rhino and elephant and then I'd go to a punch bullet of course I'm shooting larger calibers than the 1 too. There is something to be said though for money saved by casting your own.

I regularly shoot PB boolits out of my 45-70 revolver at over 1600 fps with great accuracy and no leading.
All of my .475 and .500 boolits are PB. some of my .45 Colt boolits are PB.
I just water drop WW boolits, 20 to 22 BHN. They do not slump in the guns and do not deform after going through 16" of seasoned oak.
I have shot PB from a .454 to 55,000 psi with very good accuracy.
The gas check is to stop skid at the base band so you don't lose the gas seal. Make the boolits hard enough to do the same and they are good.
I quit making my molds for gas checks since it is cheaper to use gold leaf at those stupid prices.

OOPS, I see the rifle is a .357 so you do not want too hard of a boolit, you are going to need a little expansion and a boolit heavy enough for penetration.
Softer lead will need a gas check. Air cooled WW metal might work but you can add a little pure to the WW metal.
I don't hunt with those small calibers but I do know any bullet choice with the .357 is VERY important.

that's interesting since that's not even what the manufactures say and I have shot some so called hard cast that were rated at a brinnel hardness of 18 that leaded rifle and handgun barrels from velocities of 1250 to 1700fps. The same bullets when brought down to around 1000fps quit leading. I've also used standard lead bullets and those started leading around 800-900fps and these were tried in half a dozen or more firearms so it wasn't a rough barrel.

Usually leading is a fit problem, not a hardness problem. I never had any luck with store bought boolits unless they are LBT from good companies like Cast Precision, Double Tap, or a few others.
I had samples from Laser Cast and did not like them at all. Poor accuracy and leaded bores. Seems as if all are too small and I don't like the alloy.
Bulk boolits are just no good.
I shoot nothing but cast and some of my revolvers go two years without cleaning the bore, there is no leading. I clean the cylinder pin and hole often to put clean STP on it and the ratchet.
I have found soft PB boolits do not group and have tried 50-50 WW's and pure. If I use a GC and oven harden them, they are more accurate yet expand great. As I get harder accuracy increases but I have found no use to go harder then Water dropped WW metal although adding a bit of antimony and tin can increase accuracy.
Hard boolits with a good meplat work just fine on deer from the .44, .475 and .500 JRH at 1300 to 1350 fps. OK in the .45 Colt at 1160 fps. Much slower or faster and some expansion is needed. Smaller calibers need some expansion.
My problem has been the 45-70 BFR at 1632 fps with hard. It is a hole punch and goes through deer so fast the lungs are intact with just a hole. Some have gone over 200 yards with poor blood trails. I went to a 50-50 HP at 420 gr on one and blew up an entire shoulder on exit so it was too soft. I am thinking 75-25 might work.
I make most of my own molds and none of my guns get leaded. Accuracy is actually better then a lot of jacketed.
The revolver can not be super tight, some cylinder play is needed. The Keith design has never shot as good as I want, poor guidance through the forcing cone.
I have all kinds of molds. Ranch Dog has good ones and there are a few good Lee molds. Many fine custom molds and even a few good Lyman molds.
I use Felix lube and in the .44 and .45 I use a Fed 150 primer. I only go to the 155 starting with the .475. That is with all powders even 296 and H110.
This is what cast can do. A 50 yard group with a BFR .500 JRH.

Then 5 shots at 50 yards with my Vaquero using the Lyman 452651.

This is my old .44 SBH with the RD boolit. I shot the group at 50 and the can at 100 yards. I hit the rail with one so I aimed higher for the last shot. Don't give up on cast.

This is what cast can do if you work with them. This is what the .475 does to them with a 22 BHN boolit.

Then the 45-70 BFR with a boolit too soft, the 50-50 HP. The shoulder I took off was a huge mess.

We take many, many deer with revolvers and cast.

Yes indeed!

Whitworth with a nice deer, revolver and cast.

What you need to do is to make the boolit work at the velocity and caliber to impart maximum damage where it is needed for the animal you hunt. It is exactly the same as when you chose a bullet for the game hunted.
It is harder with cast because bullet makers have improved results over a wide spectrum. They have done a super job making a bullet work over a wide range.
It really takes your own experience and the study of every animal. Just because you kill one deer is just not enough.
I will never look down on a good jacketed bullet. But economy demands I find a cast that will work and they really do everything if you pay attention.

Given good bullets [cast or jackted] it seems to always come down to shot placement and use enough gun for the job at hand.
I use jacketed bullets to hunt with,so far I can't get the cast to shoot as well,but I'm still working on it.If you buy bullets and don't cast your own good cast are as high or higher than jacketed.

the cast are only that way if ya get and pay cast performance's ridiculous prices, go with beartooth bullets and get a tougher bullet at half the price, no leading.

I have had a lot of luck with Cast Performance bullets. They have never produced any leading for me, have been very accurate, and have killed well. Not cheap, but good quality bullets IMHO.

they've been accurate for me too, but they've broken rather than deformed on 2 notable occasions, now i didn't mean to leave anyone with the impression that they leaded the barrel, they have not done that, but beartooth's are definitely superior imho and every test of durability i've done has backed that up, they've deformed and never broken and taken the pounding at some pretty extreme velocities for a cast bullet. plus, at less than half the price. double tap has a nice product at a reasonable price but it's still 30-50% more than beartooth.

hell, cast performance are nearly as expensive as barnes all copper slugs.

How fast were you pushing the ones that broke up? .454 I presume?

Montana Bullet Works makes a great cast, at half the price of CP. They have a larger weight and diameter selections, also.

This is a 50 yard group with MBW 300gr WFNGC in 44 mag....


and a 50 yard group with MBW 375gr WFNGC in 475 Linebaugh (shanked a couple)

actually you'd think so.......but it was a 45/70 at about 1900fps, and a 475 at 1350 or so fps.

i've pushed the beartooth over 2300 out of the rifles with no ill effect hitting large bones in animals over 1000lbs. i regularly push 340gr beartooth's out of a 454 over 1800fps and have never had a failure. i've tested both after the 475 failure in piles of gravel, water jugs, sand into wood and the beartooth do stay together much much better. the 454 load in question above i've shot stem to stern through a 2500lb bull so penetration is surely not an issue.

Real nice but you are opposing all the "EXPERTS" that say a WFN will not be stable.

They seem to be deadly accurate at 400 yards but hey, who am I to say?
What is that funny thing on the end of the .475?

The problem with monikers like WFN and LFN is that unless the bullets and molds come are from Veral Smith(LBT), the chances are that they are not really LFN or WFN bullets. They may be close but not really follow the design parameters as set by LBT. The bullet we use in our .475s (designed by 430man) is what I call an AWFN (ALMOST WFN) as the meplat is smaller than a true WFN and probably why it flies so well at distance. If my memory serves me well enough, a true WFN has an 82% meplat, putting a lot of weight forward. Not being critical of anyone's bullets, but these designations are often a bit inaccurate -- and not that it matters one way or another as long as they work! It's almost like "Keith-style".

Veral Smith the owner of LBT has speciffic parameters for each bullet style WFN, WLFN, LFN, etc. These perameters include meplat diameter, nose length and profile. Many claim LBT like bullets, but tomy knowledge no one has an exact copy

exactly, i've got "lfn's" that didn't group well out of my guns and have some "wfn's" that do. i don't pay attention to the moniker, just how well it'll shoot out of my gun.

It's a wrist saver! I failed to mention I was pushing those 375's with 28.5 grains of H110.

That's what I'm using under a 420......LOL! Just kidding!

I use 27 grains under a 420..

More than I use......by half a grain......

You poor things.....LOL!

I'm just a little feller.... A buck sixty soaking wet. I shot it three years brakeless but I started having wrist problems, so..... It's real pleasant to shoot now.

No sense in subjecting yourself to more abuse than you have to!

One thing that I've learned with lead, is sometimes you have to load up and down, until you find a sweet spot.

Especially with those bevel based designs, that seem to plague everyone but me.

I've got a pretty good idea what performance level I want by now, so I'll load up maybe 3 batches of 10, at different levels (something like 9.5, 10.5, 11.5gr of unique, etc.) and go out and take notes.

If I've got time, I'll carry a little LeeLoader with me, and experiment further.

Early on, a fellow shooter told me he coated ALL his lead bullets in Lee Tumble lube.
I did that on some bullets that seemed to lead regardless, and it worked good.
They weren't purdy shiny silver anymore though:)

One other thing, some people I've encountered consider "dirty" to be leading.

My 420 gr has an 80% meplat. An LBT will be 82%---WOW, that is .010" more, the thickness of 2 sheets of printer paper.
That must make my boolit junk and has to be labeled an "almost WFN." I will retire my useless mold.