I my most recent edition of the sixgunner there was an article written by another member of Handgun Hunters International that stated the Austrailian govt. has now outlawed handgun hunting. Can any of you confirm that? I had planned to go there within the next 2 or 3 years to hunt buff and banteng but now maybe not.

I don't think they outlawed hunting with handguns, but they did outlaw importing them to hunt with. At the last SCI convention I talked to an outfitter from Australia that siad I could use his .375JDJ if I wanted. I was thinking about taking a barrel only and using his frame. Since then I got a .416 barrel 16 1/2 inches long. I will be able to import it as a rifle and once in the field turn it into a pistol. Without looking the outfitter up I think his name was Bob Penfield from Hunt Autralia.

A year ago a buddy was planning a trip downunder and had to cancel. Laws had changed and no handguns allowed. He couldn't even use the outfitters handgun!

I was afraid of that, I hope those of us that own guns in this country never lay down and let our govt. walk on us the way the aussie, english, and canadian govt. has done there people. But it bothers me to know that during this last election almost 30% of gun owners voted for a seriously anti gun administration. My roots go back to the revolutionary war, so in the words of Mr. Heston, "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS"!

Unfortunately, South Africa is probably not far behind. If you have ever thought of doing an African Safari with handguns, do it now!!

With you on that one TomC. Unfortunately its not a case of lying back and letting Govt do it. They just do it. Window dress a seriously flawed piece of legislation to ensure that it looks fine to the anti's. Anyone who'd oppose it (window dressed as legislation to reduce crime) must be a nut. The UN then throws money at signatories to a "non proliferation of small arms treaty" and viola. Unfortunately developing country politics being what it is, means that now signed they can't afford to repay the sweetner they got for signing such a treaty and if you step out of line you're discriminating against the new dispensation.

Unfortunately the laws w.r.t hunting will put a lot of folk out of work and back on the streets, including those who voted govt into another term.

Window dress the legislation correctly and people will buy it.

RSA_LT, I'm sorry to hear your country is going the way of the politically correct world. One of the major problems in this country is that everybody is so self centered and self righteous that they can't come together for the common good. I myself hunt with modern and traditional archery equipment, handguns, rifles and soon to try muzzleloading, but if you go in to any archery shop and listen for a while you'll eventually here someone bad mouthing gun hunters. This happens across the board, recurve hunters complaining about compound bows, compound users complaining about crossbows, traditional muzzleloaders complaining about modern muzzleloaders and rifle hunters, and yes, even handgun hunters putting down rifle hunters, and one of the biggies-gun owners who don't hunt putting down the hunters. If people in this country would put personal preferences aside and realize that the fore fathers considered this issue important enough to be the second amendment in our constitution, then we could stop the government in it's tracks. We sometimes lose sight of the fact that the 2nd amendments purpose was not just to allow us sporting arms but to make sure that this government can never rule through intimidation and tyranny. I know for a fact that there are enough gun owners and level headed people in this country that if we would stick together we could bring the govt. to its knees, not through force but through voices such as the NRA and SCI, but it is important to remember that the fore fathers reasoning also included if necessary the use of force to retain the rights they fought and died for, and as I said before, my family was here fighting the british in the revolution and I will do my personal best to see that it was not in vain. (point in fact: i believe the last estimates put gun owners in this country at 21 million and that # maybe incorrect because it seems awful low, yet NRA membership is at 4 million- whats wrong with that picture)and here is a parting thought before I get off my soap box, imagine this because it is a real possibility- Hillary Clinton as President of the USA and Bill Clinton president of the UN, nice image, isn't it?

RSA_LT, Have you heard exactly who drew up the new firearm regs in South Africa. I have read that it was strongly influenced by a few European nations, Great Brittian was one. Have you heard this too?

Since the UK's program worked so well at increasing crime, they have decided to export it now, eh.

This goes back to the old saying that he who would give up freedom for security, deserves neither.

another old saying would be-it is better to die on your feet fighting than to live on your knees kneeling

Wapitirod Sorry for taking my time in responding.

We got the same troubles here. Bow hunters slamming the firearms crowd, trap shooters slamming, sporting clays and each shooting discipline hitting the next. The new laws have made it appear that if you have less than 4 firearms then you have little to worry about. So we have the less than 4 gun firearm owners slamming those with more than that. A hunting organisation slamming everyone else and trying to organise special concessions for only their members. There is an afrikaans term that is descriptive of this but is best left out of this great forum.

Oh yes and of course everyone who has suddenly seen that the new legislation can earn them a buck has jumped on the bandwagon and are not afraid to charge.

If everyone over here pulled their heads out of ....the ground and looked at how this particular bit of legislation actually could affect them in the future.

TomC to answer yours question, some rocket scientist apparently picked up the Canadian legislation (the one which was supposedly thrown out as it was unworkable) and added a local flavour Some of the Aussie laws have been added, not so sure about the Brits. Well this is the first year that currently licensed gun owners need to re-motivate and re-license their firearms. So far there is pandemonium. The required application forms haven't hit the local police stations, local police aren't sure of the new regulations and so make up their own rules until someone points out otherwise, and their computers don't work.

Unfortunately when pushed in parliament the then "learned" minister for Safety and Security issues admitted that they realised that the new law will do little for illegal gun ownership and crime. Yet they persevere.

Sadly I can now get jailed for a longer term by not having my firearm license on me (or having lost it) than for rape. In fact, if I am not wrong the prison term for being in posession of a firearm without a license for such arm is less.

If they pulled their heads out of the ground they would see that many people who have valid need for a defensive weapon and are denied this because of beaurocratic inefficiency; blanket refusals of licences and the cost of jumping through the red tape now in place, will probably look to the market of illegal (stolen; lost smuggled in; old freedom fighters arms cache) guns.

But then it cost in the order of R 1,000,000,000 (about US$ 169,491,525 at todays exchange rate) to get rail roaded through so it must work. There was nothing wrong with the old law. It did exactly what this one did without infringing on perhaps as many human rights. I'm sure there could have been a few houses built, townships electricty supply improved even a few parliamentarians salaries paid out of this. OR perhaps crime could have been fought by hiring a few extra policemen and paying them a bit better.

Sorry Guys I realise I am ranting and perhaps need to apologise for letting go a bit of my frustration.

Rant on brother - there are a lot of folks in this country (gun owners & hunters) that need to wake up when it comes to firearms and hunting laws and the attack we are under. (That's why I post the threads in the Gun News Forum.) There are even some "outdoor writers" that have nothing but disdain for the NRA and other pro-gun groups. I can't mention any names for obvious reasons, but one has an outdoor TV show in the NW and has no problem supporting organizations like the Campaign for Americas Wilderness. Well guess who the director of communicaions is for the Campaign for Amer. Wilderness, none other than a former honcho at Handgun Control Inc. These green organizations, with their new found love of hunting, are trying to court hunters into joining their cause, but don't be fooled. Look to the officers of these organizations and what local chapters are up to and it becomes clear that they don't walk the walk. Beware of orgs like Sierra Club they are the proverbial snakes in the grass. A good example is the back door attempt at punishing animal cruelty as a way to make hunting illegal in NY.

Oh by the way there is a bill currently under consideration in Texas that accomplishes the same thing as the NY bill on animal cruelty.

Gary, just the other day I was having my wifes buck scored by a guy who used to work for fish and wildlife here in oregon, and during the conversation I brought up SCI and there record books, the reaction I got was definately negative. The interesting thing is that it was not the first time. What I don't understand is how fellow hunters can't realize that without organizations like SCI, then even if the NRA protects the second amendment your hunting days are over. The same goes for the Rocky Mountain Elk foundation, They can bring back all the elk they want but without groups like sci dumping big bucks into legal battles like the one in NJ over bears, then were toast. Speaking of which, how did you like the way the head of the NJ wildlife agency ignored the judges order to distribute the tags. I hav't heard anymore yet but it sounded like he effectively ended the season last year.

The antis have gone after bear hunting because bears have many characteristics that humans identify with easily. They are trying to appeal to the borderline bunny huggers as an ok ban. NJ has a lot of problems with hunting and firearms laws in general and it's only going to get worse unless all sportsmen in NJ get together and start making a ruckus with their elected officials. Like vote them out of office if they vote the wrong way. I wish them luck.