 sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
#102350
02/04/2012 9:37 PM
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nytracker
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Looking for ideas for use on deer for dispatch/hunting. Keep in mind im a liitle slow, as im learning ,with the contractions and abreviations.
Save liberals from them selves, stich their sphincter closed so they cant talk out their arse
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: nytracker]
#102351
02/04/2012 9:49 PM
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s4s4u
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Do you mean factory ammo? Check with Grizzly, Buffalo Bore, Reed's Ammo, or Double Tap, all online. They have stuff that is designed for 4 legged critters.
Rod, too.
Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: s4s4u]
#102359
02/05/2012 12:28 AM
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claytonfaulkner
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The perfect 45acp round for hunting is the 460 rowland
If by dispatching you mean shooting a deer that is laying on the ground 10 feet in front of you, anything that is legal should work. Carry ammo works fine.
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: s4s4u]
#102362
02/05/2012 12:52 AM
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Whitworth
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Do you mean factory ammo? Check with Grizzly, Buffalo Bore, Reed's Ammo, or Double Tap, all online. They have stuff that is designed for 4 legged critters.
Agree completely.
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Snyd]
#102428
02/05/2012 2:01 PM
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johnwilliams
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that load looks like it would do some real damage!
H.H.I.#8190 Colossians 1:17 And He is before all things,and by Him all things consist!
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Snyd]
#102434
02/05/2012 2:28 PM
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jwp475
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I got about 960 FPS with that load. Very good load IMHO
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: jwp475]
#102443
02/05/2012 4:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Bearbait in NM
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I agree with Snyd. That bullet looks just like a "regular" 250-255 grain RNFP that you can get from a lot of places. I have gone through a ton of those from Lasercast in my revolvers and levers. And the Lasercast are pretty hard. I had always thought that they would work like a premium Cast bullet, but never gave it serious consideration because they were bulk, and not marketed like a LBT or Kieth style.
I am currently working on a fast 45acp load to supplement my Rowlands, and yesterday confirmed with my new Ed Brown barrel that I can get a 250 class bullet doing 1000 fps from my new barrel (accurate)in 45 Super brass. At 1050, I got minimal case head expansion, and the primers look a little rough, so I am gonna stop at 1000.
So I am in the market for a 250 grain lead bullet and was going to try and work with a Kieth of some sort, but I may need to order up more of the Lasercast and revisit. I guess I need to do some media testing with them. It is easy to find lots of reports of hunting success with the more exotic Kieth and LBT (magma) styles, not a lot of info on this old standard, the rnfp, as most folks like them for bulk type shooting. They definately feed well in levers, and I had no issues feeding my Rowland years ago when I tried this shape.
Interesting,
Craig
Northern born and Southern bred
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Bearbait in NM]
#102444
02/05/2012 5:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 310
Snyd
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A 200gr lswc pushed to a max load/+P would probably work good too.
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Snyd]
#102445
02/05/2012 5:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Bearbait in NM
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Snyd,
Bielieve you me I have often wondered about swc's in general as a hunting bullet. Much like the rnfp, not a lot of data out there by folks who might hunt with them. It just seems to be the Kieth's and LBT's that get all of the press. The other nice thing about the rnfp's I used to load from Lasercast is that they were bevel base, to a degree, which would be very helpful in the acp to maintain good case neck tension.
I have a couple of hundred of the 200 rnfp's from Lasercast, but I want to stay in the 250 range for a hunting load. I found yesterday that with my gun zero'd with the 250 at 1000 fps, a factory 230 fmj at 850 shoots very close to the same sight setting at 25 yards. I have the gun kinda "tricked out" with mods for my Rowlands, and I want to be able to shoot both acp and Super without having to change springs in the gun.
MY original Colt barrel did not seem to much care for lead bullets, in general. This new Ed Brown barrel is looking to be quite a bit better. I have not worked up any lead specifically for it yet, but my limited testing with some of my Dillon Fever lead acp loads looks promising.
Craig
Northern born and Southern bred
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Bearbait in NM]
#102450
02/05/2012 8:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Russell
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Craig,
I use both the 255gr 'Kieth style' commercial gast and the 255gr LEE 452-255RFN that I cast and the RFN has a larger melplate than the commercial 'Kieth style' so it ought to make a 'better' hunting bullet. IMHO I do know it feeds better in my pistols.
It's not the gun, but the man behind it.
Sheriff Russell Cottle, Ret.
USMC; 1967-1970; Vietnam-'68-'69
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Russell]
#102511
02/06/2012 6:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,101
Bearbait in NM
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Russell,
Thanks, and I know we covered some of this in the other thread. I found a partial box of the 250 RNFP's in my pile yesterday, so I can test them right away. The meplat's measure at .250, so they seem "small" according to the usual places. And if the Kieth does not depend upon the meplat for penetration, then is it the driving band, or shoulder that does the "work"? I guess it will be time to head to the recyle center for newspapers ;^)
I think feeding will not be an issue. I know the 250 RNFP's would feed in my Rowlands without too much issue, and my new Brown barrel has a big enough throat to feed hp's, and swc's so far.
Thanks,
Craig
Northern born and Southern bred
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Bearbait in NM]
#102546
02/06/2012 11:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Russell
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Craig,
Your throated Brown barrel ought to feed the swc's. My test pistol for feeding bullet profiles is a WWII Ithica 1911 A1 that has not been altered in any way. If the bullet feeds in it, it'll usually feed in my others. I'm of the opinion that it's more of a magazine function than a throat or ramp. At least that's been my observation after fiddlin' with the acp since my Uncle sam gave me one to use in the mid 60's. 
Russell
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Russell]
#102549
02/07/2012 12:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Snyd
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I would think a 250gr rnfp at 1000ish would be about like the 45 Colt of old and I venture to say it's probably killed more game than all other calibers shot by guys on this site! Just guessing...
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Russell]
#102552
02/07/2012 12:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,101
Bearbait in NM
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Russell,
Thanks, and I I agree completely. As the bullet nose has to bounce off the ramp, then bounce off the top of the chamber, all while getting the base released so the rim can slide under the extractor, the magazines can certainly make or break things. I have a similar "extreme" test, Colt modified lip magazines. I tend to like to use these, knowing that Wilson's will be more forgiving.
The LBT style nose profile, WLN was definately having issues with the stock dimpled Colt throat. Just a tad too wide of a nose to let the case break over the top of the dimple. I have not tested these in the Brown barrel, but it has a lot more clearance on the barrel ramp/throat. But I also have more unsupported case web. Ah, trade-offs.
With your experience, I bet your digging what the 1911 will do. Whooda thunk??
Craig
Northern born and Southern bred
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Bearbait in NM]
#102566
02/07/2012 1:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
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nytracker
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Thanks for the info guys .
Save liberals from them selves, stich their sphincter closed so they cant talk out their arse
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: nytracker]
#102580
02/07/2012 2:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,105
Russell
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nytracker,
sorry I kind of wandered from your question. If your 1911 will shoot them and you don't reload, then the Bufalo Bore would be my recomendation. As Syd mentioned, a .45 bullet of that style, weight, and speed has killed a lot of critters since it inception.
Russell
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Russell]
#102758
02/10/2012 4:25 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,625
Raptortrapper
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WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!! Are you guys saying you can actually hunt big game with a .45 ACP??!! I gotta try that! I would assume you are limited to deer sized game at the largest??
I've got a stainless Springfield TRP that would LOVE to have a crack at that! I guess I need to see if it is legal here first...
Last edited by raptortrapper; 02/10/2012 4:28 AM.
A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
Lifetime Member of the NRA! Wish I'd a done it sooner.
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Raptortrapper]
#102784
02/10/2012 3:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,101
Bearbait in NM
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Raptor,
We can discuss this here and be reasonable. On 1911 forums these type of discussions turn down hill rapidly.
If you have been around the handgun hunting scene for a while, or even just Single Action places long enough, you will find that the 45 Colt and even the 44 Special have been used a long time to kill critters successfully. In the case of the 45 Colt, the standard safe for Colt "clones" load has been a 250 grainish class bullet (usually lead) at around 900-950 fps. A lot of this has been "lost" these last many years as the majority of folks anymore use bigger guns, and fancier type bullets.
The 45acp really does come in three levels of power. Standard ACP, 45 ACP +p and the 460 Rowland. There is no question the Rowland will meet most folks definition of suitable. It is with the standard or +p that things get a little murky. And matching the type of bullet to game is key, like any caliber. The tough part is that most factory premium ammo is built for the FBI protocal for self defense against humans. Companies like Buffalo Bore and Cor-Bon have gone a step further and recognized that the acp and +p loaded with the coreect bullet will do more.
So yes, the first step is to check your game laws. Then you have to get realistic with yourself about limitations as to distance, and game size. Then the fun begins.
Craig
Northern born and Southern bred
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Bearbait in NM]
#102786
02/10/2012 5:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 818
sixshot
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The 45 ACP will work quite well on deer size game at iron sight distances, just need to have the right bullets for the job.
Bearbait, I'm curious about how a bevel base bullet helps increase neck tension?
Dick
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: sixshot]
#102790
02/10/2012 7:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,101
Bearbait in NM
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Dick,
They allow me to get by with less case neck flaring, which helps to keep the most neck tension from the sizing step. This and the fact that lead bullets are usually 0.001 larger than acp bullets really help. Also the acp seems much less forgiving to bullets getting seated crooked, so again anything to help keep from flaring excessively. Trimming and chamfering are out for me, as I want my mouth edges very square, for the crimp.
With warm or hot acp's, bullets jumping crimp out are not the problem. It's the jumping in that will get you in a world of hurt ;^)
I found that with the 250's (rnfp) I can set the OAL to just hit the case mouth in the crimp groove, and a reasonable taper crimp gives me just a tad of bite.
Craig
Northern born and Southern bred
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Bearbait in NM]
#102794
02/10/2012 9:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,048
wvhitman
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I've killed as many deer as anyone with .45ACP. I've tried a bunch of bullets. Normally I'm a cast SWC guy, but in .45 I've had far better luck with the Hornady 200 gr. HP-XTP loaded max. It puts them down fast with more damage than SWC. This is not based on one kill!
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: sixshot]
#102833
02/11/2012 6:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 75
.41magfan
journeyman
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 I'll let you draw your own conclusions. The recovered round on the far left is a 1st Generation 230 gr Gold Dot. The shot was broadside on a 4-pointer that weighed about 140 lbs. The bullet almost completely penetrated - I found the bullet under the hide on the offside. The deer ran about 20 yards and piled up.2nd Generation Gold Dots penetrate better and expand a bit less. The gun used was a 1911. The bullet in the center is a 200 gr Gold Dot at +P velocity. The deer was shot at a quartering on angle at 15 yards. The bullet penetrated about 2 feet. The 100 lb. 5-pointer fell immediately at the shot and expired in less than a minute. I shot another deer (a Spike) about 30 minutes later and got complete penetration (no bullet recovery) on 2 broadside hits at about 20 yards. The gun used was a Glock 21. The bullet on the far right is a first generation Winchester 230 gr Black Talon (Evil!!). The shot was straight on at about 15 yards. The 125 lb. 5-pointer ran, then walked about 100 yards and tipped over. The shot was dead center of the chest and bullet was recovered near the hindquarters. The gun used was a 1911.
Last edited by .41magfan; 02/11/2012 6:08 PM.
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: wvhitman]
#102834
02/11/2012 6:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,101
Bearbait in NM
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Doc,
That has to be the single most understated remark I have ever heard from anyone in a long time, "This is not based on one kill". I no longer subscribe to the "Sixgunner", but you were pretty much the reason I did for so many years. I passed all of my stash of those to another shooter, and am kicking myself for that.
If you had to pick a 250 grain class bullet for the acp in the 950 to 1000 fps range, would you have a suggestion for something as large as a mule deer? Still an XTP? perhaps the 230 a little faster? I have my Rowland and my 454 FA, but I am trying out some new things right now. I know what a cast bullet can do in this territory, but I still nag myself back to XTP type bullets because they are so darn accurate. And I am stuck with traditional testing for performance, no management critters in my area ;^)
Thank you sir,
Craig
Northern born and Southern bred
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Bearbait in NM]
#102835
02/11/2012 6:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,097
jwp475
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Raptor,
We can discuss this here and be reasonable. On 1911 forums these type of discussions turn down hill rapidly.
If you have been around the handgun hunting scene for a while, or even just Single Action places long enough, you will find that the 45 Colt and even the 44 Special have been used a long time to kill critters successfully. In the case of the 45 Colt, the standard safe for Colt "clones" load has been a 250 grainish class bullet (usually lead) at around 900-950 fps. A lot of this has been "lost" these last many years as the majority of folks anymore use bigger guns, and fancier type bullets.
The 45acp really does come in three levels of power. Standard ACP, 45 ACP +p and the 460 Rowland. There is no question the Rowland will meet most folks definition of suitable. It is with the standard or +p that things get a little murky. And matching the type of bullet to game is key, like any caliber. The tough part is that most factory premium ammo is built for the FBI protocal for self defense against humans. Companies like Buffalo Bore and Cor-Bon have gone a step further and recognized that the acp and +p loaded with the coreect bullet will do more.
So yes, the first step is to check your game laws. Then you have to get realistic with yourself about limitations as to distance, and game size. Then the fun begins.
Craig You seem to have omitted the 45 Super, I am shooting 255 grain RNFP hard cast in mine for about 1090 FPS
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: Bearbait in NM]
#102836
02/11/2012 6:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,101
Bearbait in NM
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41,
Thank you for jumping in. I tested (wet print) the Golddots in my 1911 using the Rowland and they behaved same as the 230 and 200 xtps's. Pretty much turned inside out, with a lot of core/jacket issues. The velocity was well above +p, so I felt that I was out of the range of the bullet's design. Now that I am testing back down at +p or slightly higher, I am having to rethink things. Maybe it is just the old cast v. jacket arguement redux, but I really do appreciate any help here. I think the gold dots are chemically/molecularly bonded these days? Looks like I need to do some research. My new barrel seems to shoot Barnes pretty well for accuracy, perhaps I need to add them to my test list.
Thanks,
Craig
Northern born and Southern bred
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Re: sugestions on what 45 acp rounds for hunting
[Re: jwp475]
#102838
02/11/2012 6:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,101
Bearbait in NM
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,101 |
Raptor,
We can discuss this here and be reasonable. On 1911 forums these type of discussions turn down hill rapidly.
If you have been around the handgun hunting scene for a while, or even just Single Action places long enough, you will find that the 45 Colt and even the 44 Special have been used a long time to kill critters successfully. In the case of the 45 Colt, the standard safe for Colt "clones" load has been a 250 grainish class bullet (usually lead) at around 900-950 fps. A lot of this has been "lost" these last many years as the majority of folks anymore use bigger guns, and fancier type bullets.
The 45acp really does come in three levels of power. Standard ACP, 45 ACP +p and the 460 Rowland. There is no question the Rowland will meet most folks definition of suitable. It is with the standard or +p that things get a little murky. And matching the type of bullet to game is key, like any caliber. The tough part is that most factory premium ammo is built for the FBI protocal for self defense against humans. Companies like Buffalo Bore and Cor-Bon have gone a step further and recognized that the acp and +p loaded with the coreect bullet will do more.
So yes, the first step is to check your game laws. Then you have to get realistic with yourself about limitations as to distance, and game size. Then the fun begins.
Craig You seem to have omitted the 45 Super, I am shooting 255 grain RNFP hard cast in mine for about 1090 FPS JWP, That is funny, as that is exactly what I am doing right now, the 45 Super. I was just trying to generalize a bit to the membur to whom I was replying, as 1911 can mean a pretty wide spectrum. Duh. Your 1090 is just a tad higher than my gun will tolerate, but a 250 at 1000-1050 is very doable. Right now I seem to be stuck in the old cast v. jacket dilema, and the faact that I am pondering something a little larger than whitetail. But I am just getting started with this experiment, so this thread got me a bit keyed up. Thanks, Craig
Northern born and Southern bred
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