Ok, my last question here started out good, with some good info coming in, but went horribly wrong toward the end, and the whole thread got locked! So, I'm gonna try again with a new question that hopefully has nothing to do with Elmer Keith. I have a Ruger SBHH, that started life with a Burris 2x, but I couldn't get groups at 100yds that I was happy with. Currently I have a Bushnell Elite 2-6x32,and can get really great groups at 100yds, but the dang set-up is huge, and I missed an opportunity last season at a nice deer, due to the scope/crosshair blacking out just before dusk. I want to try a red dot, and see ALOT of folks here are big fans of the Ultradot. I really like the size/weight of the Burris fastfire III, with the 3moa dot. Are the ultradot scopes water/fog proof? Which dot size do yall recommend, for big game hunting out to 100yds, with some occasional practice at coyotes/hogs? I'm looking for real world experience with folks that have used red dots, in the rain/sleet/snow/cold. I dont figure on getting 1moa groups with a red dot, but surely it could manage "minute of deer" accuracy.Also, if anyone could recommend a good hunting holster if I choose to go with the fastfire, I'd appreciate the tips. Thanks in advance, for any advice, and God bless.

I won't be much help.
I love my Ultradot. I have the "Ultradot 4" with the adjustable dot size, but generally I find the 4moa dot works well.
BUT, I wouldn't mind trying the Fastfire. They look fragile, but as I understand it they aren't. I like it's compact size & they give a great sight picture.
There, did I help?
By the way, I heard Elmer was a HUGE fan of NC Star's red dots :-)

The ability to absorb abuse keeps me coming back to Ultradot......really hard to beat IMO.

That was FUNNY!!!!!!! Not much help with my choice, but that's hilarious! I read alot of good reviews on the fastfire, but they were mostly from rifle guys. They all say its a pretty tough sight. Does anybody know about the ultradot being water/fog proof? I have yet to find much info on it.

And 2 more questions, with the ring spacing on a Ruger SBHH, will a matchdot or an ultradot 30 fit? Does anyone know of a quick release ring for the Ruger dovetail mount?

Fast fires were made to replace the rear sight on the slide of a 45. If that doesn't tell you there reliability nothing will. I have owned a fast fire for sometime and have it mounted on a rifle. It has held up to several thousand rounds. I have a buddy who has one mounted on a 480 RSBH and it has stood up to hundreds of rounds. And as far as minute of angle for any red dot, I have eotechs on my AR rifles and they both shoot 1/2 inch groups at 100. I don't know anything about the ultra dots other then many here swear by them.

My FFII has been in the rain dirt mud etc. I have it mounted on an AK47 I built for 3 gun USPSA matches. Oh and it is mounted on the gas tube of the Ak and I have put enough rounds thru it to make it almost glowing red hot and the FFII never failed.

The MatchDot won't fit, nor any red dot sight with multi-dot functions as the turret is too long. The regular UltraDot will fit just fine. There are no quick release Ruger ringmounts that I have seen, although it wouldn't be very hard to fashion one.

I have Optima 2000's on a couple of guns and really like the mini-dot system for carry, although I find that a tube style dot is quicker to get on target for me.

I have a FF III coming on the brown truck of happiness sometime this week. I can't tell you how it performs yet but as for durability typically light weight is important on a bolt on accessory. If you don't believe me check out the stats on bull riders. Those little guys stay put through some serious abuse, and you don't often see them above 200 pounds. I figure there is less mass on the FF III to strain mounts and bases during recoil, and it is going on a 4 5/8 blackhawk in .41 magnum. Which is a brisk recoiling little rascal to be sure. Also in my experience a crosshair/dot/sights that are finer than the group your fire arm can hold only leads to frustration. For example, yesterday I shot a friends 1936 Mosin Nagant M91/31. The sights are graduated out to 2000 meters but it is barely minute of grapefruit at 50 paces. Hitting a 4 inch spinner with the Mosin was as much luck as skill at a distance that is 100% with my blackhawk.

This is correct.

When I talk about abuse absorption ability (AAA?), I am talking thousands of rounds of .475 Linebaugh (420s at 1,350), at least 1,000 rounds of .500 JRH (440s at 1,350), a stint on my .416 Remmington Magnum rifle, and then on to a lightweight .500 Linebaugh with more than a 1,000 loads of 525s and 500s, two drops out of tree stands, and the dang thing hasn't missed a beat.......that is the tough I am talking about.

Maybe I should have that Ultradot bronzed.

I don't know about the other red dot,but I have hunted in the rain,dropped my gun out of the tree stand(had to resight-after fall she was shooting 4" to the left)and she's still going after 15 years-I really trust the Ultra-dot brand!-johnw.

What moa size dot is preferrerd for big game hunting? With a 2x scope, I could manage 5-6" groups at 100, but with my 6x, I get 2-3" groups all day. If I change to a red dot, can I at least expect a group thats good enough to stretch a shot at a deer to 100, or will it cut me back to a shorter distance? I know it's a million questions, but I cant afford to buy both and see what i like best, and am trying to benefit from others experience and wisdom here.

Boot,

I have both Fast-fire & J-Point reflex sights mounted on Ruger & FA revolvers. With a 3-4 moa dot and using the top of the dot as my aiming point, I have no trouble being within mow (minute of whitetail) at 100 yds+. Actually, it is easy to hold them on a 6"x8" steel plate @ 100 yds (from an accurate revolver) using a rest. A FA M97 41 mag with a J-Point easily stays within the "kill zone" on my steel deer which is @ 137 yds. The "deer" is really a cut-out of a bull elk that is about 3/4 the size of a deer.

I will, however, inform you that they are a pain to sight in (at least they are for me).

Good luck.

For all around use, a 3moa up to 5moa dot do nicely. I have a 7moa on my Bisley 45LC but that is my brush gun and shots are usually close, although I feel confident to 100 and beyond with it.

One word of warning on any red dot. I & several people I know of have some type of eye condition that can cause a dot to not have sharp clear edges, & sometimes I even see a bit of a 2nd dot (I can tell which one is "real"). My right eye is my dominate eye (and I shoot right handed) & I usually shoot with both eyes open. This occurs only with my right eye. If I switch to my left eye only the dot is nice & clear with sharp edges, but it's awkward.
With my right eye or both eyes I could never use the edge of the dot for my aiming point as Wtroper does.
Still it's the best option I've found for my 100yd & under skills.

Vance,

the condition to which you refer is an astigmatism. I have that, and it is corrected by my glasses, but as you noted I too see dots very differently by brand, usually. Some times it is eye fatigue, not enough water consumed but it can be frustrating at times.

I see Aimpoint dots just fine as a brand, but things flucuate on my JPoint and my newest Leupold dot. Two things seem to help me a bunch, the first is go with a small dot. I see 2moa dots much better than 4's. The other thing is the ability to turn down the brightness of the dot. Both of my Aimpoints, a 2 and a 4 can be adjusted for the light with a dial, and I can always get them sharp. But, They are a bit large for my FA gun. So I use the JPoint with 2moa dot, and it is usually reasonably sharp.

So my suggestion for anyone who uses glasses, or knows they have an astigmatism is to try and get a look through whatever dot you are contemplating purchasing, or if buying on line make sure to buy from a place that will let you buy, install the battery, and possibly return.

Craig

another option

I was looking at some red dots and saw this one. Thought it looked comparable to the fast fire so I figured I would mention it as another option.

I have a couple Optima 2000's which are similar to that, but at about 1/4 the price and they have taken some stiff recoil. The Burris or the JPoint are a bargain compared to that Vortex. It looks like it should get the job done tho.

Dr's optic is another one. They were specifically built for handguns. The military uses them as well on their M4's with top mounted optics. They mount them on the side and actually turn their guns sideways to shoot.

I use on of these in my .45 ACP carbine. It is only slightly larger than a 30mm tube and rings and offers 4 reticles. I plan on putting one on my .22 Hornet BFR.

http://www.sightmark.com/products/reflex-sights/ultra-shot-pro-spec-nv-qd-sm14002

Academy sells them for $100.

The above comments by Vance & Bearbait are real. The dots on my J Points & Fastfires are not always as sharp & clear as I would like them to be. I expect that my 69 yr old eyes have a lot to do with that. For me, the J Point dots are sharper than those on the Fastfire.

I purchased two of the Fastfires when I was having trouble locating J Points. I personally prefer the J Points over the Fastfires. However, the difference between them is not huge.

If my eyes were younger, I likely would prefer open sights to either. However, with the open sights looking like fuzz, the dots are much better for me on the revolvers that might be used for quick shots or on moving targets. My primary hunting revolvers still wear Leupold scopes, however.

I assume that you require reading glasses for reading. Try using weaker reading glasses than you normally use for shooting. For instance I read with 2 dopter and shoot with 1 dopter. The one dopter will give enough corrrection to clear up the sights on my handgun with my arms extended, but not so much correction to blur the target at normal handgun hunting distances.

Full size reading glasses available at Wally World for about 8 bucks work well, but i had some custon bifocals with 1 dopter upper and 2 dopter lower made for my shooting.

When i started using them for Cowboy Action my shooting was much improved.

Not to hijack the thread, but if he got a Fastfire III and mounted it with the ruger mount would he have to keep it mounted on the forward position.
I wasn't sure if the gases escaping from the chamber would possibly harm the scope or cause it to need to be cleaned more often.

It would be nice if there was a way to just mount it right over the rear sight like I have seen on some freedom arms.

Hank,

I do not wear reading glasses. I work in the office everyday with no glasses. I have (since birth) split vision. My right eye (dominant) sees well close up. My left sees well far away. But I see with only one eye at a time. My glasses are to correct the right for distance vision. I shoot with my glasses because without them I cannot see the target clearly. However, they negatively impact the close view. Even bifocals do not solve the problem as one needs to see both the sights & the target. I can see one or the other --- LOL

The reflex dots are the best alternative that I have found for my situation --- other than scopes.

I did not mean to use bifocals to use both at same time, but just to be able to read or adjust something on my gun without changing glasses.

Perhaps a lense for your right eye that did not have as much correction for distance would work. Kind of a compromise like I use, but in the other direction.

That is an interesting thought.

My only concern with the ultradot, is that "light transmission" thru the tube and lenses would black out around the same time as my bushy elite. Thats why i was leaning toward the fastfire. It doesnt appear to me that it would darken a sight picture very much at all. Can any of you guys that have both, or either the ultradot or the fastfire chime in on the dawn/dusk hunting ability?

Also, would a weigand rail mount with talley qr rings hold zero on a 44 shooting factory loads? I could keep my 2-6x scope, AND have a red dot for hunting in thick stuff.

Boot, I find that tube dot sights for me tend to be harder to see the target in low light. I have had several aimpoints over the years and at dusk and dawn couldn't see the target thru them. The concept behind the screen type sites such as the jpoint or eotechs or fastfires is to shoot with both eyes opens and your dot will be focused on target and low light is does not effect it nearly as much. If there is anyway for you to try and look through someone elses scopes before purchasing a scope, it would make your decision much easier.

I shoot with both eyes open with tube-type red dots -- especially in low-light.

That is the whole point of a 1 power red dot sight. Both eyes open means faster target access. To the shooter it appears the same as if he was using a laser.

Is there any other way?!?!? I like to say we are looking through the sight as opposed to looking into it. With both eyes open, the tube actually blends into the sight picture, practically invisible. I shoot scoped guns with both eyes open as well.

A little tip that will help with the two eyes open is to practice enough that you can actually put a cap over the muzzle end of the tube style red dot sight and see the dot on your target. These sights do take a bit of work to use properly.

Craig

That's the setup I have on my 480SRH with the exception of me having Warner 30mm rings. Hasn't moved yet and there have been several hundred rounds of 400grainers down the tube. before that it was on my 450 Marlin Guide Gun spitting 420s at about 1950fps. Before that it was on my mod 29 with a steady diet of 320s at1340ish fps. Never a problem.

Hey Vance, did you have QR rings on that weigand?

I do, but they are 30mm Warner. I love them.

This discussion has been great for those of us contemplating adding one of these. Could anynof you gentleman that have these post a picture to show how they mount and such.

Yeah! Pics would be great! I really like the size/weight of the fastfire, but would like to see some pics of both sights mounted, before I spent money on a new sight.

I used the Weigand to mount my Optima2000, which is similar to the Fastfire. The nice thing is that you can change optics as needed.

S4s4u, what type of tube sight is that? And where'd you get the holster? I'm thinking long term here, but maybe i should get a wiegand mount for my SBHH, then a set of QR rings for my bushnell 2-6, a set of 30mm QR rings for an ultradot 30, and a fastfire with a picatinny mount........ Theoretically, if the weigand is locktited very well to the factory dovetails in my barrel rib, wouldn't each of those 3 sights return to zero when re-mounted? I dont handload, so factory ammo is all I shoot, none of which is really hot enough to rattle the mount loose. Just a thought ....... can someone shed light and logic on the idea?