I finally made it to the range with my two boxes of wet cardboard for some penetration test. It was mixed results. The 260 grain accubond went through a 2x4 pine, 20" of wet cardboard and stopped in the 3/4" plywood backing with very little mushroom. I was told the accubond may not open up wigth pistol velocities and it did not. The 30-30 nosler ballistic tips in 125 and 150 grain did surprisingly well. They penetrated about 11" of the same wet cardboard the 375 was shot into and stayed together. The 44 magnum was shot into a different box of wet phone books and cardboard boxes. The 260 grain cast performance and the 240 grain xtp penetrated about the same but the xtp seperated from the jacket on both bullets. The cast bullet mushroomed more than expected. The pictures are on the bragging board since I have not figured out how to put picture on the post.

Here is the picture for you

Did you shoot every round through a 2x4 first?

No I did not shoot all of them through 2x4 first. It was by accident. I shot high and hit my frame holding paper and cardboard. I forgot to hold low at 100 yards. Oops. I will stick with my 220 grain soft points for the 375 or step up to the 270 grain hornady bullet it gets good reviews on this site. The 44 is still undecided but I am leaning to the hard cast. The 30-30 I am reluctant to use after previous experience with factory ammo. That is why I bought the 375jdj.

What cast bullet did you use. Hardness?

Here are some recovered hardcast that I have recovered from water soaked newes print

I do not know the hardness of the cast ammo. It is some Cast Performance bullets I ordered from Midway. I was expecting it to mushroom less. It was on 23 grains of H110 powder which is almost max.

Your test medium apparently is tougher on the bullets. CP bullets have worked very well for me on game and I highly recommend them

I will probably use the cast bullets. I had a bad experience with hollow points a few years ago and quit using my 44 contender because of it. Now I am reloading and have more choices. I also bought a super redhawk in 44 that makes it interesting.

I would strongly suggest that you use 300gr bullets and up for your .44. I've made numerous tests in wet newsprint and phonebooks and the 300gr XTP has never separated. The cast and "Punch" bullets in around the same weight do not mushroom either. Take a look at this picture:


All these bullets were fired at 50m (around 55 yards) in wet newsprint or phonebooks from my custom .44 S&W 29-2 with an 11" barrel. The only bullet that messed up a little was the one to the left, a Hornady 256gr Flex-Tip. The others performed nicely, as can be seen above. They were a 300gr XTP, a 270gr Belt Mtn Punch, a 305gr Cor-Bon Penetrator, and a 310gr Oregon Trail Lasercast LFP. Average rest weight was around 99%.

Oh, and the penetration was around 21" for the JHPs and around 30" for the rest, with the Punch bullet winning the race at more than 31".

Thanks for this info. I didn't think the 300 grains would be that different.

it will, i just don't think that kind of mushrooming on the cast is bad. i hope for that on all game elk on down. penetration is just not an isuse but flattening a bit just adds to the size imho.

DeerDad, here is a picture of a 300 gr. Accubond that I fired from my Competitor pistol in 376 Steyr. The bullet was fired into a ballistic test tube, and as you can see the bullet mushroomed well. The Steyr is a jump in velocity over the JDJ round, but the accubond is not a real "hard" bullet in my opinion.

Remember that DearDad's bullet went through the wood first and that inhibited expansion

10-4!

I did not know the wood would limit the expansion. I will try it again this weekend and not hit the wood. I wasn't supposed to hit it the first time. The accubonds are too accurate to give up on them just yet.

John,

Interesting concept; but pls explain how did that inhibit the expansion?

I have shot the 160 accubonds out of my 7mm Mag, not a pistol but, Had wet news print which I soaked overnight, Good expansion and the weight retention was 75 to 80%. Dont remember exactly. Had the news print backed by magazines, also soaked.

When shooting into the magazines it shredded the bullet, Stick to strait wet news print.

velocity was 2850-3k
Imapct was 50 yards

I have also shot my 44 into the print, my pistol with hardcasts and my carbine with 270 gr speer deepcurl, All held nearly 100% retention, Though I ahve some 240 exposed lead hollows that turned to sharpnel when impacting the news print.

Just my experances
Matt

The wood tends too hold the bullets together the water in the wet papre adds frontal resistence but no side resistence and that allows for greater expansion. That has been my experience

I 2nd jwp475 regarding shooting into soft wood.

wood can definitely be a tricky medium. Where I used to shoot in the high desert my 50yd target was in front of a ponderosa pin that was somewhere aroun 18" across. I shot there for two or three years before the tree fell during a windstorm. I found dozens of my bullets which had obviously contributed to the demise of the tree. I found my 475XTP mags had penetrated right with the hardcast from the same gun but they hadn't opened at all. I also found high power rifle bullets from 243 to 458 that were in better shape than you normally would see after hitting an animal. The hardcast and xtp mags could just about have been reloaded which amazed me, I had expected the hardcast to maintain there shape but the mags I figured would have mushroomed and penetrated half as far. That was when I got my lesson in shooting into wood. I also put a 440 CP hardcast straight through a 12" ponderosa out of my 45-70BFR and that was when I learned about the penetration abilities of HC.

so jwp in your photo of bullets, looks like a copper bullet on the left, is that a barnes? How did it perform and from which chambering did you launch it if I may ask.

I tried the penetration test with the 375 JDJ again without hitting the 2x4 first. Same mushroom as hitting 2x4 first last time. I give up on the accubonds for hunting. The 220 grain hornady soft point did real well. I may give the sierra 250 or the hornady 270 a try. It will depend what is on the shelf at local shop.

Try the Norma Oryx 300 gr. 375 bullets. They are some of the best made.

how hard are you pushing that 260 AB? I shot a bull elk at 253yds with my 300Win mag and 180gr AB's and it performed flawlessly. I never used the 260's on an animal as I sold my JDJ's before I had a chance but my impact velocity at 100yds was as much or more than my 300 at 250yds. I was running 2250-2300fps out of the muzzle with my 375JDJ. I'll see if I can find the bullet and post a pic. The accubond is an excellent bullet and extremely accurate but you need a minimum of 1600fps for it to work right and I actually think Nosler has it listed at 1800fps but I talked with the ballistician there when they first came out. The 375 bullet was the first AB I used, I shot it in my 375 Rum and JDJ pistol and we figured I had a solid 200yd gun with the JDJ and I would have reasonable performance to 250+ which is further than I would have stretched that cartridge anyways.

here is a pic of some bullets.

I just copy and pasted from the bragging board on the description.

this is primarily in response to the post on the 375JDJ and Accubonds but I added a couple bullets. The far left is a 350gr Hornady RNSP in .458 fired out of a Marlin 1895 at a moderate 1950fps. This bullet struck a Roosevelt bull (approx 700lbs) behind the right front leg going through a rib, the heart, another rib and then an inch into the shoulder ball where I had to use a wood chisel to break it out. It retained 91% of it's weight. The next is a 260gr 375 Cal Accubond fired from a Contender in 375JDJ at 2300fps into a half rotted stump at 100yds, it retained 92% of it's weight, the next one is an unfired 180gr .308 Accubond, the last one is a 180gr Accubond fired at 2700fps from my Encore pistol in 300 Win mag into a Rocky Mtn Bull (approx 600lbs) at 253 yds, weight retention was 91%. Expansion is as follows in the same order; .760 (24" of elk), .603 (12" of wood), .704 (18" of elk)

I took this photo from the bragging board to show an example of how even a small ram like this mouflon type ram caused the 300 gr. accubond from my 376 steyr to expand. The steyr does produce more velocity than the JDJ round, but the 300 gr. is tougher than the 260 gr. On game the 260 gr. accubond will work fine.

This is an example of an exit wound from my 376 Steyr using the 300 gr. Norma Oryx bullet. This deer didn't have a chance. Just wanted to show what the bullet will do on game. The .375's are overkill for anything under elk size game.

Here is an example of exits with 300 gr. Sierra bullets from the Steyr. Just wanted to show Deerdad that all of the .375 bullets I have tried on game have worked great. If you do your part there is no game animal in NA that can handle it.

I disagree. There are no degrees of dead. Looks to me like it works more than fine on deer-sized game!

There is nothing wrong with having more than the required min to hunt with! LOL

I bought my 375 JDJ in my Encore to hunt deer and pigs with. I reeeeally want to see what a proper heat treated 264 Lyman bullet will do to a game animal… … … …

While I have only had it happen one time, it sucks to have the hammer back and thoughts going through your head as to whether you have enough gun/load for the shot. I don't like the term overkill, more like enough confidence to have one less thought running through your head when you do not need it ;^)

Craig

Maybe it would be better for me to say that using a caliber/bullet combination that was designed for a cape buffalo is not required for a WT deer, it does work though. Remember the comment about "overkill" was made under a WT doe. I would have just as much confidence if I was using a 125 gr. TNT bullet from my 30/221 on a deer. I agree dead is dead. There are extremes though, I wouldn't go after a Brown bear w/ a 22 long rifle and I also don't think a 700 Nitro Express is needed for a nutria. Maybe overkill isn't correct, but way more than needed, would be more proper.

Well said...

Thanks for this topic it has been very informative for the beginner handgun hunter. The performance data on a variety of bullets from numerous cartridges has really been helpful to me.