After looking for some time for a factory 209x50 ML barrel I decided to follow what others have done and cut a 26" rifle-length ML barrel down. It is 16 1/4" long, recrowned and the ramrod spindle relocated rearward.

I like the fact that I can utilize the full length forend on it for more stability whether on a rest or in sticks. A local machinist worked the barrel over for me.

I haven't shot it yet as it is so dry and hot around here. Not only is it uncomfortable weather, but I'd rather not set the grass on fire either!

I'll trim down the ramrod when I get around to sizing it up after loading.

Looing good. I like that one. The TC scope will hold up to almost anything. Can't wait for pics with an animal next to it. When does your season start?
I have a 15 inch factory barrel. I really like mine. I have thought about doing like you did and have a long barrel cut down to have another one. If I did get another one I would probably get a 18 inch Katahdin barrel. No laws against that.

Good job. I like that.

Thanks, guys. Our deer season in MO doesn't start until Nov., but I intend to get an antelope in WY the last week of Sept. with it, if I can get close enough.

Excellent, I looked for a long time and had almost given up when one magically appeared on my favorite gun auction, I pushed it to the limit and won the auction, then i got an e-mail that warned me with apologies that it was not as represented, it was in fact only 12inches in length. i was a bit aprehensive, but the owner offered to drop a c-note off the price if i didn't besmirch his good nome in the feedback, so I took a chance, turns out to be a TC custom shop barrel... i'd like to compare velocities if you have access to a chronagraph??

That is cool. reflex264

That is a sweet set-up.....post some kill pics when ya get 'em

I shot this thing today a half dozen times. With 100 gr of Pyrodex and a 240 gr JSP it was very manageable. My last shot was an inch high at 100 but the barrel was plenty dirty by then so after cleaning, my next range session should tell me how consistent it is.

I don't have a chrony but will ck around to see if I can find one.

Help me guys .... Can't get a image to post! Have a TC 209x45 with Aimpoint 9000SC optics. A fun shoot handgun, drives the long gun guys NUTS. Mike Bellum in CO is the Bergara guy here in the US. Knows his “stuff” when it comes to muzzle load barrels, easy to communicate with and the cost is well within line for a custom barrel shop. Zero in a 50 yards with two pellets and Hornady 200 gr sabot. Two does last season 64 and 48 yds.
Confident to 100 under proper conditions, proper rest etc.
Will post image or send via EM, someone let me know how to.

Hope this image will post.

there is a "how to post pics" post at the top of the hunting forum. If that doesn't get if for you we can walk you through it. Mike is a friend of mine and he's very, very sharp. I did see you made the common mistake with his last name though, it's Bellm.

I really liked my 209x50 encore barrel. It was a rifle barrel cut to 15" and recrowned. I shot 80grn of 777 and a 240grn bullet. I took a nice buck the first trip out. I had a 2x Swift scope on mine. I like the open sites but just couldn't get them to work for my old eyes.
Send my your photo by e-mail and I will post it if I can.
Mike
My e-mail is in my profile.

I'm not "in the loop" with muzzleloaders so I'll ask (another) Newbie question.

What did you mean by "it not being illegal to do" with regards to using a 18" barrel?

Can you use a 18" ML barrel as a pistol? I thought that was against the law to use anything over 15" as a pistol unless you have special ATF approval?

What am I missing or did you mean something else?

-Thanks -

Another question for the "well season" out there. I saw a 209 x 50 Magnum barrel for sale. Is this different from a standard ML barrel and if so, which would be the preferable to have cut down?

Thank you.

Never mind my second question. It's just marketing fluff.

Any thoughts about my pistol barrel length question?

Thanks,

State laws may differ, but federal laws states no barrel length min/max...i.e; you can have a 27" barrel on a handgun if you want.

Federal laws states that you can't attach a shoulder stock to a handgun/rifle with less than an 18" barrel and overall length of less than 26".

Again...State laws may differ on handgun barrel lengths. Hope this answers your question without having to get too technical.

What am I missing or did you mean something else?

OK, thanks I'll check my local laws.

NEXT QUESTION - Keeping with the 209 x 50 ML short barrel theme.

If you can cut down a ML barrel and use it for say, deer hunting at closer ranges, couldn't you also cut down a 12 ga. smooth bore ML barrel and use it for turkey, pheasant, dove or rabbit hunting?

Have any of you done this or is it an unsafe idea?

Thanks,

I too am interested in having a ML barrel for my encore, but would like to see some stats on it - what has people been getting for muzzle speed and what was the load. I would like to see at least 1200-1300 with a 250-270 gr. bullet - what kind of load am I looking at out of a 15" barrel?

I have one acquaintance that shoots the aerolite powerbelt out of his cut down (16") barrel using 70gr. of powder - but that seems light to me?!?!

Wayland,

Check out this thread:

http://www.handgunhunt.com/forum/ubbthre...true#Post100060

Here is the manual download from T/C:

http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/noncurrent/Encore_Muzzleloader_Manual.pdf

Handgun data starts on page 63.

You can load up to 150 grains BP in the Encore version from T/C. The highest I have gone is 120.

I intend to try different loadings in mine across a chrony, which an aquaintance has one, before hunting season. It was accurate enough already at 100 yds with 100 gr of Pyrodex and a 240 gr JSP, but I was just checking to see if I had it on paper. Might be better with more/less powder, we'll see.

I have never tried a bullet that light in any 50 caliber. How accurate is "accurate enough?" What bullet? Just curious.

I was shooting what I had on hand, which was Midway Bulk 240 gr JSP's in sabots. I only shot it 3 times at 100 yds last wknd. First two were less than 2" apart, 6" low and 3" left. I made the proper click adjustments (1/4" @ 100) and my 3rd shot was 1" high.

This is all I have to go on at this moment, however, more range time is necessary, of course. We were at the end of a 6 hr. afternoon of shooting several firearms, and it was time to hang it up for the day.

I've had good success in all of my .50's shooting 240 gr XTP's. Several rifle length Encore's and a couple Rem. M700ML's. I have tried some heavier Powerbelts in the Rem. but it didn't like it at all. I plan to test with the XTP's soon.

Oh,OK. That explains the light weight; the sabots. The bullets are probably really .45 caliber. We can't use sabots here so I am unfamiliar with them.

Accuracy may/may not improve with heavier full caliber bullets; they might be more stable. Although I believe Jim Shockey (whom I met at the SCI Hunter's Convention), uses Noslers with sabots.

Yep,.45's, Gregg.

I'm familiar with your no sabot rule, or was familiar with it in '02 anyways. I hunted elk with a Rem. ML then in CO, though no shots were fired...didn't see an elk.

I've located some sabots that handle the .44 and some that handle the 45's. I have 300 grain noslers and xtp's in 44 caliber as well as 240's but inly have one choice for 45's, the 250 xtp. triple seven in 3f and 2f, pyrodex pellets, but only one choice in primers. Dang it Boartuff, if you were closer, we could spend an afternoon trying to figure out whether the extra length you have makes a difference..... do they make magnum primers in 209's

The 209 has plenty of fire, too much even.

Has anyone tried "Small Rifle Primers for Better Accuracy and Less Fouling" (as presented in this link) and what were the pros and cons?

http://www.eabco.com/VariFlame25ACP.htm

I decided to purchase the used encore 209 x 50 barrel ($180) mentioned previously. To shorten my learning curve I'd like to incorporate "proven" after market features that will put meat in the freezer and not waste money.

Thanks,

If I had a T/C muzzle loader I would invest in the 25ACP breech plug from PR.
http://www.prbullet.com/hornet.htm

Thanks for the link.

I checked this out, but it seems that this product also requires or assumes that I already have re-loading equipment to install and de-cap these primers easily?

Is there a proven hand tool or product you might recommend as I'm unable to invest in re-loading equipment. Neither site (eabco nor prbullet) gives much direction regarding this to the ML newbie.

*Gregg posted a couple links (above) that were of great help.

Thanks everyone.

Try the Triple 7 primers. They are made to be used on black powder guns. I use these on my rifle and handgun. My accuracy has improved greatly.

My .02...

In the past, I have had Encore 209 X 50 barrels of the following lengths; a 15" factory barrel, a 17" cut-down rifle barrel, and a 14 1/2" Bullberry barrel. My present 209 X 50 is a 13 1/2" Bullberry Contender barrel.

Up until recently, I used Triple Seven and 209 primers. I do not feel that the conversions to other priming system are necessary. I swab the barrel between shots for the best accuracy, your first shot on game will be from a clean barrel anyway.

For the past couple of years, I have used Blackhorn 209 in my 209 X 50 Contender barrel. Accuracy is great and I have been very impressed with the "low" velocity spreads. I am currently shooting 2 loads in the Contender...a .44 caliber, 240 grain Remington JSP (or 240 grain Hornady XTP) in a Hornady .44 caliber sabot. I have also worked up a load using these 335 grain, .45 caliber cast bullets from Precision Rifle:

Precision Rifle LBT Bullets

I wasn't pleased with the results that I achieved using the sabots that came with the bullets, but I have had excellent results with Hornady mag sabots for .45 caliber bullets. I use 70-80 grains of Blackhorn 209 with the 240 grain jacketed bullets and the .45 caliber cast bullets. Accuracy at 60 yards is right around 1". I have killed several hogs with this gun and it works great with the right load. (I have had some debacles with large hogs and low velocity loads). I bumped the velocity up to around 1250 fps and started getting efficient kills.

I would strongly suggest Blackhorn 209 and the hottest 209 magnum primers you can find (I use Federal). JMHO, your mileage may vary. Good luck!

That is some great info, Darrel. The 13 1/2" barrel sounds interesting for handiness purposes. Is there a particular reason for the 1/2" on the the two barrels you mentioned.

We're still experiencing some awfully warm temps well above 100 and I'm looking forward to a cooler day when I can comfortably take some time and experiment. A few short range sessions here and there with centerfire shooters is tolerable but if I'm going to attempt to play with the smoker it's gotta be better than it is now.

Oh, and thanks for the pork photos, too!

Yes, economics!

Both of those Bullberry barrels were made from "stubs" that they had in inventory and they cut me a deal on them.

One more thing...I haven't had good results with the polymer tipped bullets designed for magnum muzzleloading rifles that will achieve velocities close to 2000 fps. We will never be able to achieve these velocities in the short barreled muzzleloaders which results in no expansion. The "pointy" polymer tipped bullets zipped right through the hogs but as you can imagine, didn't do much damage and led to slow deaths. I would suggest using expanding jacketed bullets or flat nosed cast bullets designed for .45 and .44 caliber revolvers.

Beartooth Bullets makes a 325 grain LFN bullet designed for muzzleloaders that I would love to try.


Also, read Montana Bullet Works FAQ regarding the use of their LBT bullets in muzzleloaders.

More experimenting is needed!

Good luck BT!

thanks so much for the information, and pictures too!

Yes indeed. Thanks!

Here's mine guy,
You will enjoy driving the long smoke pole guys nuts with your smoke stick. I "0" mine in at 60 yards good to go a bit further. No question you made a good move, carries well and just as deadly in typicle wooded shot yardage. Can't seem to get an image to post.

I agree with the Blackhorn 209 powder definately cleaner burning than anything else. I found some primers made by Remington especially for muzzleloading that work real good also.

Darrel, your pics are gone!

Funny thing happened last week with the ML while I was in WY. I'd grabbed the wrong bullets and sabots before heading out there and when we went to the range for site-in, I noticed right off what I'd done as I slipped a round into the barrel and it dropped in without the aid of my short starter. Too loose! lol

So I figured I would shoot it out anyway and see what it'd do without telling the other guys of my mistake. When the smoke trail made it almost to the 100 yd target in a spirally line and all the noize it made was basically the cap popping, everyone got quite a chuckle and thought I'd forgotten to load a bullet. The powder simply lying out there burning.

Needless to say, I did not get to shoot an antelope with the ML pistol as I'd intended, golly gee.

If you are using Blackhorn 209, I might suggest NOT cleaning the barrel between shots. You'll find a fair amount of consistency with a fouled barrel, particularly if you hunt with it.

My usual mode is to test fire/sight in each year just before the muzzy season opens, then I clean the breech plug and leave the barrel fouled. BH 209 in non-hydroscopic. Little chance of rust unless you leave it out in the humidity somehow. This way, you start on a "normally fouled" and cold barrel. Likely your sweet spot.

Then I do a full BARREL cleaning at the end of the season when I put the gun away. If I play with it in the off season, I clean it after each outing.

Sounds nuts, but it works!