I have handgun hunted for years with revolvers (Glocks) rifles and carbines and archery equipment. Through time I,have evolved. I have used TC Encore rifles and TC Contender carbines. I recently have had the itch to use handguns in the previous thought of as a system of rifle, shotgun, pistol by use of changing of parts or modules to change the systemto,fit the situation. Just as in the commercial. I recently found that system begun with rifle or carbine is "Verboten" however if started with pistol is atf approved. So now as I want to follow the law, I must purchase a separate, identical frame to place handgun parts upon. I am frustrated but I have an Encore frame on order. I have placed several posts in the "frames for sale" and have asked questions. So,far people aren't answering. Am I the only one missed this disconnect? I have an atf agent checking on this but, nothing yet. Currently I may be looking for two dedicated frames for use as pistols. I certainly wish this had been explained 10 to 15 years ago. Frustrated but I intend to comply as I enjoy hunting and shooting. Maybe someone else may learn from this. Mingokid

Mingokid, this subject is one I usually don't comment on, but ...... Most posters on the forums put out false information on this issue and it's seems when you call an ATF employee, they really don't know the answer (which they should). I'm not gonna say you do or you don't; read it for yourself an make a decision. I can't post a hyperlink from my phone, but go to this link: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf. It's straight off of atf's website. Hope this helps you on your decision.

P.S. I have frames that were bought as rifles, shotguns and muzzleloaders that are all wearing pistol grips and barrels.

That is a ruling I haven’t seen discussed. Honestly, I didn’t even know about it existed… If you know how to read the legal “garbage,” it is clear.

Understand, it looks like this was written because there were so many TC users asking the ATF questions. The ATF was thorough with the definitions of both rifle and pistol configurations. Understand they had to for legal reasons. There are people who would manipulate its meaning if they didn’t correlate a comprehensive overview of TC rulings and compile them together.

“Therefore, so long as a parts kit or collection of parts is not used to make a firearm regulated under the NFA (e.g., a short-barreled rifle or “any other weapon” as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(e)), no NFA firearm is made when the same parts are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length). Merely assembling and disassembling such a rifle does not result in the making of a new weapon; rather, it is the same rifle in a knockdown condition (i.e., complete as to all component parts). Likewise, because it is the same weapon when reconfigured as a pistol, no “weapon made from a rifle” subject to the NFA has been made.”


Thanks KRal!!!!


Duane

Duane, you're welcome. Actually, the t/c ruling was made back in the 92; but for some reason, people didn't know how to research it, comprehend it or just went with what someone else "said". I've always preferred to do my own research when it come to firearm laws.

This latest, reiterated, ruling also encompassed other firearms beside the t/c's.

Tracking! I have tried looking it up before. Mainly because everything I heard on it was hearsay, or second hand. I have asked my local Game Wardens about the rule just to CYA. I could never find a paper trail on the ruling.

Ps, I am not trying to start an argument with anyone here. I know this has been a hot topic for some people. Some sights even lock threads the even bring up this topic...

What I am going to say is that I am going to print this out and stick it in my TC case. LOL Remember one thing, knowledge is power, but only when you can back it up with paper...

Duane

Exactly. That's why I usually didn't make comments on the subject; and will not make further comment about it here...

...everyone can read for themselves and come to a conclusion.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

checking if this link takes you to it. the other link....i had to search "thompson center pistol". it came up....page not found.

Thanks, I can't do that magical stuff from a phone.

I saw 2 pistols here that had 18 in barrels on xp frames , what's the deal ???

My BIL is a police lieutenant in the city that I call home. I asked him about the situation after I read the 1992 ruling. It is listed, with an atf letter of explanation, on Mike Bellm's website. I hadn't heard of this before that. My BIL wrote a letter to the state's senior atf agent, today he forwarded the response to me. Although it may be very remote that anyone would ever find a TC in a configuration that the atf wouldn't like, my job requires a few licenses which would be forfeited if any felonies were leveled against me. I choose to spend a few bills to get another encore and contender frame that left the factory as a pistol. I have ordered an encore pro hunter frame already. I am in the market for a contender "pistol" frame. I wasn't trying to cause any trouble, it was the contrary. I appreciate all the info and my hope is that I might help prevent any problems for others in the future. Mingokid

If you frequent here long enough you will realize that more is better. I have acouple of contender frames, and only one encore frame, but I haveseveral barrels of both persuasions, and even rifle and pistol barrels for the same type frame. As you alluded to in your iniitial remark, it is kind of nice to be able to shoot different configurations from the same action. That said, I wouldn't be in a hurry to unload that rifle action just because you are going to acquire pistol barrells, you may get tired of switching frames sooner than you think.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I will be keeping the frames I have just so I won't have to swap them around. Especially the muzzleloader barrel and forend! I am feeling better about the situation as I think on it. I just had my eye on an XP100 that will need to wait!

There is no Federally mandated maximum langth for a pistol barrel, only a minumim length for a rifle barrel is specified. Some states have restrictions on maximum barrel length, but not the Feds. A long enough barrel on a pistol can make it legal as a rifle, which is why some might have those loooong tubes.