Ok, I'm gonna throw this out here, and probably get some flames, but I am having a tough year so far. I took a decent 9pt buck earlier this year, then lost a very nice 8pt the following weekend, then a doe later ,trailed blood for a LONG way on both,but never found deer. Last one I lost was a doe,shot at roughly 100yds. Had a ton of blood,but no deer. Was shooting downhill,and found where the bullet impacted dirt,so I'm sure of a pass thru. I thoroughly enjoy handgun hunting,and practice as much as I can. I dont wanna give it up,but dang! Its one thing to miss completely, but I've wounded 2,without being able to retrieve them. I'm not real happy,and neither is my wife with an empty freezer! Lol. The most accurate factory ammo for my ruger,is overwhelmingly,300gr xtp,and the boxsays 1180 fps from a 7.5" barrel. I guess what I'm wanting to make sure of,is the error was me, and not the xtp bullet. Alot of guys use the xtp, with great success,so I was happy to see them shoot well from my particular pistol. Now,I have reservations pulling the trigger again. When you first started out with a handgun,did yall have setbacks and dissapointments,or did it just come natural? Maybe I'm looking for some reassurance, some encouraging words, or someone to go on and say "quit and go back to a rifle." Anyway, I'm rambling, thanks for any advice, or opinions.

Boot, this won't make it seem any better, but that's just hunting. I have lost deer that I know I hit and it made me sick, but that is just how it goes. My only advice and this is just advice is to try a 240 gr. bullet or even a 270 or 280 grainer. The 300 gr. XTP is a really tough bullet and this is where opinions vary, but the 300 gr. XTP is not going to expand on a deer. You will get great penetration, but this bullet will not give the tissue damage of a bullet that is less stout. I am not trying to start a war here, but I like the PMC 240 gr. Starfire bullet for deer in the 44 mag.

Boot

The first thing is to take a deep breath .. Anyone who says that hand gun hunting just came naturally is full of ..you know what. A good hand gun load is just as effective as any rifle round!

I taught hunter ed and bow hunter ed for over 20 years, with the limited information you have provided my first assessment is that you are "pushing the game".

Hand gun hunting is a lot like bow hunting, the cardinal rule in bow hunting is to "do nothing after the shot". Give the animal a chance to walk off and find a place to bed down and bleed out. If you go after a wounded animal too soon, they are affected by adrenaline and can go miles even when fatally wounded.

Make the shot, if you do not see the animal go down, and stay down, then you need to stay where you are, smoke if you do, if not try to stay still for 20-30 minutes. Find the spot where the animal was when you shot and look for a blood trail, or tracks.

This is not easy if it was then everyone would do it. Do not get discouraged, hang in there. There are lots of pictures here of successful hunts, I have no doubt that you are as capable as anyone else.

Just the fact that you have doubts, is an indication that you are an ethical hunter, and that is more important than "horns on the wall".

Take care .. John

Since you seem to be shooting well, as far as making contact where you want, and have proven this year you can do it I say stick with what you are using. Maybe shoot for the shoulders to get the most chance to use the energy of that big slug. So what if you have to scrap one of the quarters as long as you put it down. And if in doubt shoot again. I learned hunting bucks only on public land (granted this is with a slug gun) try for shots that will knock the deer down. For me that was middle shoulder shots. The deer I shot this year with a 240xtp didnt bleed at all, but only ran a short distance because I fortunately hit the bone. I have also lost deer shooting them with rifles. Sometimes thems the breaks.

Boot,

For a critter that you do not see or hear go down, time is your friend. With archery you generally only kill by letting the animal bleed out. A "dead" animal can cover a lot of ground until it lays down to bleed out, if pushed at all. Unless it is raining or snowing hard, there is really no reason to not wait a long time before pursuing. Perhaps you did wait long enough, just tossing that out.

Perhaps it might help to cut your range some, so that you have a better shot at maybe seeing the bullet impact or seeing the animal reaction to guage where you might have impacted, to decide what you need to do next.

Craig

Anyone that hunts very much is going to loose a deer eventualy. I have nicked deer before with no lethal hits and see them a few weeks later. All kinds of stuff can and will happen. None of it makes me want to give up hunting though.

I have had 300gr XTPs pencil though deer before without expanding. You might give some big flat nosed cast bullets a try. I have killed a pile of deer with them and they seldom go far. reflex264

Franchise nailed it when he said "that's hunting." Unless everything you shoot is behind a fence in a very small pen, you will go through periods where you may come up empty or you may wound and lose game. If you hunt enough, it will happen. But, I want to throw something else out there that everyone here must consider and recognize: What we do is harder than hunters who strictly used scoped rifles. That is just a fact of life when you've chosen to hunt the hard way. By virtue of my profession, I hunt quite a bit throughout the year. I too have stretches where I can't seem to find my backside with both hands. It just happens. I haven't had a great season either. I killed a bear -- a big bear -- that I couldn't recover. Stuff happens. You do your part by choosing/working up your hunting loads, you practice, you place your shots, and there it goes again: Stuff (you can substitute another word for this one -- also beginning with an 's') happens. You also do your part by tracking and trying to recover your animal and sometimes you come up empty handed. It's just a part of hunting that rears its ugly head every now and again and frankly, if it has never happened to you, you are not a complete hunter. Everyone should taste that every now and again, as it keeps us humble, honest, and appreciative.

I know this may not make you feel any better, but get out there, dust yourself off, get back on that horse, and keep doing what you are doing. Things will improve.

Keep at it sometimes bad things just run in spells. I would suggest that perhaps you double up on your practice and dry fire sessions. The thing that you lack most at this point is confidence in your ability and that's a killer. Since you seem to be shooting a wheel gun skip a couple chambers when loading during practice so you don't know which ones are live to verify you don't have the occasional flinch. Think about what would restore your own personal confidence in your shooting and make it happen.

Boot, we all have lost animals, some of these animals live, some don"t, it happens. Whit hit it with the guns that we use, it"s doin it the hard way. Hunt like a bowhunter, and most important, get your confidence back, a confident man is a dangerous man, get it and go kick some ass.

Wow. That's alot of positive response! A few more details, and questions. As far as pushing the game, the 8pt, I didn't wait long enough, probably 20 min, because it was already drizzling rain, and we did jump him up once, then the bottom fell out, and washed away every drop of blood. We searched for 5 hrs in the rain, to no avail. The doe was hit 45 min before I started looking. The blood trail was very good for 150 yds or so, then just dissapeared. Question on the 300gr xtp, I dont handload, so am limited to factory ammo. Is the xtp in the 44, the "mag" bullet in the 454? I understand the mag bullet is very tough, but thought the 44xtp was a standard hollow point? My Ruger likes the .430 bullets much better than. 429 bullets. It also groups very well with magtech 240gr jsp. Would those possibly perform better than the xtp? I thoroughly enjoy handgun hunting, and have more of a sense of accomplishment, than hunting with a rifle. What kind of velocity am I looking for with a 240gr slug? And do most of yall like hollow points better, or the jsp's? I would like to stick with something somewhat readily available. Thanks again for the help, and encouragement.

Hit the range, knock the dust off, and get back after them! All of us experience the setbacks...happened to me earlier this year. I was convinced that the big 9 point that I had shot on opening day was rotting somewhere...until my trail cam captured him just 3 weeks after the shot. It appears that my confidence was the most damaged thing that day!

I don't know what velocites the 300 grain XTP is rated at, but I know that the factory .44 load with the 300 XTP is loaded to really moderate (read: slow) velocities. I don't recall what we clocked them at, but they are rated at 1,150 fps by the factory. I have used them on game and they did not open, judging by the wound channels. This is a very mild load that probably isn't the best choice for deer as a result. Now if Hornady loaded them a couple hundred feet per second faster, they would probably work better on thin-skinned game like deer. I know this sounds counter-intuitive.

Hang in there brother. I know how dissapointing it is to lose game, and that sinking feeling when you know it's hopeless. There's a couple of people that I think the world of that always have encouraging words for me. They always say that it's ok, God needs to feed the other animals also and maybe that's what he intended when this happened. This always makes me feel better, and in my heart I believe this because all thing work for the better with God..

It sounds like to me that you are doing a lot of things right. To have already shot a 9-pointer, had an opportunity at an 8-pointer and a doe is a pretty good season.

I know that you must be in the dumps about the lost deer and that is a good thing. Don't quit. Instead, use those feelings to spur you on to become a better hunter and shot.

Are you pretty confident that you made good shots on the two deer in question? If not, practice some more or limit your range to where you know you are very accurate. If yes, think about working up a load (or buying factory loads) that use a lighter, faster expanding bullet. That 300 grain XTP, if it did not open at all, could have been on the fringe of good shot placement but just penciled through. A hardcast witha large meplat or a lighter, faster expanding bullet could have made the difference.

One bit of anecdotal evidence that might or might not be of value to you. I shot a nice 9-point buck about ten years ago with and old Remington 141 in 30 Remington. I believe I was using 170 gr. Corlokts. Anyway, I shot just a tad low and the bullet creased the heart. Well, it was more than just a crease, there was a bullet hole right along the bottom of the heart. The deer ran like crazy for about 200 yards and stopped in a large brushpile that had been left by some loggers. He was still alive when I approached....luckily, in this case, I did not wait long. Anyway, I put a finishing shot in him but I have never forgotten that moment. It was just one of those things but it almost made me quit hunting. How the deer lived that long with a hole in its heart is beyond me. The shot was at the margin and had I been using a bullet/cartridge combo that had more sizzle, it's likely that he would have expired within 50 yards. But then you think, how many millions of deer have been shot with that same outfit? Keep in mind that a 30 Remington is merely a 30/30 Winchester sans rim.

Like everyone, I want BANG FLOPS! The reality is that some deer are going to run off and some bullets are not going to act like they should. And sometimes we're just going to flub the shot. Practice and look into some other loads in the off season. Until then, go hunting, make the best shot you can and know that the hunting fraternity is with you. We've all been there in one way or another.

One other thing that you could perhaps do is hold out for broadside shots if you aren't already. Quartering shots increase the chances for bad things significantly. It's easy to clip a shoulder and have a lot of blood but no vital organ damage. Sometimes there isn't any choice and the only shot is a quartering one but if the deer is just feeding you can usually wait till they turn. A buck bird-dogging a doe is a different matter.

Whit, I peeked at the 240 xtp, and the velocity is a bit faster, with less mass to expand. I wasn't very impressed with the wound channel on the 9pt or the doe from last year with the 300xtp. I agree with you on getting no expansion. In your opinion, would I be better served with the 240's? I dont really gotta have a sledge hammer, but a 44 should do a little more damage than penciling thru.
Landrum, I'm pretty sure they were hit in a good spot. There was alot of blood, but I'm pretty sure I got no expansion (energy dumped into tissue destruction), and that's why I didn't recover the deer. The 9pt I took earlier in the year, was an easy recovery, and field dressing revealed a 44 size hole in his heart, and maybe a 45 size exit.

Try the Remington 240 SJHP they open nicely on deer and will handle larger animals with the proper shot.

I would hit the range and shoot all day probably overdo it start flinching and my confidence level would go down even more. I don't reccomend it as it is counter productive. I would go ahead and practice some just to make you feel better. Then try to shake it off. I have lost one with a rifle and I was sick on my stomach from it. But it does happen to everyone if they hunt long enough. I would drop down to a 240 grain bullet unless you plan to shoot a bear while deer hunting. I think if you hit the heart or lungs solid you wouldn't have jumped the buck and the doe wouldn't have went that far. I like the 240 xtp and many others mentioned here. I want as much expansion as I can get while still passing through. Try to stick with it. I set my stands up where most of my shots will be 30-60 yards. Good luck.

Better he survived so you can hunt him another day than rotting away as coyote feed somewhere!

Boot: Hang in there, friend, we've all done it if we've hunted long enough.

I found that the more i concentrate in finding the deer the harder they are to find. Probably doesn't make sense, but anxiety seems to take over when I don't see them go down. If I can't find a deer I call a friend (if possible) and we go for a walk. I try to make light of the situation by making it a learning expiriance. I have found some pretty amazing sheds while looking for downed deer. Now when I look at shooting deer I try for a high shoulder, sometimes it works and they go right down.

The 240XTP opens much quicker and will expand on deer even at 1000fps. Gary mentioned the 240gr Rem sjhp. That is a great deer bullet. They will expand nicely at some pretty low velocities. Main thing is get back in the saddle! reflex264

Boot, as others have stated "that's part of hunting"; don't let it get you "too down". Now, my next subject will prolly get some flames. Back before enternet and handgun forums, when I was young, dumb and broke (still dumb and broke) and didn't know the proper bullets to use (by todays standards); I always used "bargin bullets". I would search the catalogs for the best buy's in my bullet selection. Back then,for the 44mag, it was the bulk bag of Remington 180 gr. semi-jacked hollow and soft points. You could get a 500ct. bag for under $20. I liked to shoot a lot, for little money. My 9 1/2" Ruger Super Redhawk shot them very well. For years, I used these bullets over a max charge of 2400. They were awesome on shouthern whitetails! I killed over 20 deer with that bullet(s); never recovered one and always had great terminal performance. My shots ranged from 15-100 yards and I always took broadside or quartering away shots. Never lost a deer and never had any complaints.

I'm currently using 240XTP's in my 44's; with good results. They definetly do their job and are very accurate in my guns. That said, I don't think they do as much internal damage as the above mentioned; but you can take less than perfect angle shots with the 240's.

There's some on my limited experience with the 44 mag....for what its worth.

Keep your head high and keep after 'em with those hand cannons!

The deer I shot this year with the 240 XTP went about 100 yards. The bullet is pushed by 25.5 grains of H110 and near as I can figure is leaving the muzzle somewhere around 1550+ fps. The shot was between 75-80 yards and the bullet entered behind the shoulder through a rib, hit a lung, angled back through the diaphragm and liver and exited through the last rib. The exit hole was just like the entrance. Since my barrels internal dimensions are on the large size the .430 bullets shoot well. After seeing the lack of expansion I will be looking back into the cast boollits.

Dust it off and get back out there. I would lean toward lack of bullet performance instead of your performance.

Boot, the 300 gr xtp works well real well another 200 fps faster but it more of an elk and buffalo bullet. The 240 is more of a deer bullet but ya cant push it real fast. Any impact velocity above 1300 fps will have the bullet coming. If ya wanna push a bullet fast the barnes or the a frame are great ideas. A speer if ya wanna open up slower.

Dont get frustrated weve all been there. Last year my son had a hardcast failure on a small mule deer buck. A 45 cal 325 gr bullet and hit it pretty square. Never found the deer. We never got to have a clue what happened until i tried finishing off an oryx for a friend rifle hunting and the bullet smeared and did nearly no damage. Pulled the bullets i had left. Hardness was gone. Just a bad batch. It happens and keep hunting hard. Pick the right bullet and your 44 will create hige woind channels

I dont handload, so the next logical question is, is there a commonly available factory load that will perform better? My Ruger groups well with Magtech 240gr jsp, but they're a lil slow as well, around 1180fps I think. It wouldn't seem fast enough to expand the jsp, but I have never hunted with that particular bullet. Had a few older gentleman tell me, with factory loads, at velocities below 1200, I should be shooting the flat faced jsp, because they will expand. And the flatter face will do more tissue sisruption on its way thru.Does this fit with most of yalls experience?

And no, I'm not looking for a magic bullet, to replace proper placement, just one that will do a reasonable job, when I do my job. I appreciate all the encouragement, kind words, and help.

Unfortunately, a lot of factory .44 ammo is no longer loaded very hot. It has been emasculated. The .44 loads I have tested from Grizzly Cartridge and Double Tap ammo have all run at "magnum" velocities. Might want to look at their offerings.

I know it is very disappointing to loose an animal but hang in there. FYI, I chrono'ed the 300 XTP out of my SRH 7.5" barrel and clocked it at an average of 1107. I did shoot a buck at about 25 yards with my 14" barrel Contender in .44 mag with the 300 XTP this year and it blew right through with no apparent expansion. He went about 40 yards with no blood trail at all but he did have a hole center punched in his heart.
The 240 XTP clocked at about 1400 out of my SRH with 7.5" barrel.

Boot,

I've gotten good and reliable expansion from the Hornady 240 XTP factory loads - I recovered a bullet from the big 8 point I shot last year at close range and steep angle. Shot through high shoulder and found on opposite hide. I'll post a pic when I get a chance.

Since its so late in the year, I am gonna re-zero this evening with 240xtp factory loads. After the new year, I see a reloading press in my near future, unless the 240xtp's are just phenomenal. I'll sure keep yall posted with any results, and thanks again for the help and encouragement.

I'll second what SChunter said. I have had good performance with the 240xtp, but... you may not get a pass through. I shot a doe with my 5.5 inch SBH broadside at 40yrds behind the shoulder, and it didn't exit. She only went 20yrds. I also shot a smaller doe(turned out to be a button buck), from a steep downward angle. It literally flattened him. He kicked once and was done, but again, it didn't exit.

If you want 2 holes, you may want to look at something else.

MN

I'll trade an exit hole for a recovered animal anyday! The 300gr xtp's are giving 2 exits, but zero expansion at their velocity for me.

I hope you find reloading enjoyable. I have always found it relaxing and there's something nice about working up and shooting your own load. Good luck, I'm sure you'll enjoy this new aspect of handgunning

i'll second the double tap and grizzly, also buffalo bore offerings are magnums, but ya may be happy with the hornady factory loads. they run a good velocity as well but for deer also look at the barnes vortex 44 mag loads. mellow but they work well.

Boot,

The only thing I have found to ease my concerns about the bullets I am thinking of using is to test, side by side. The problem is that any testing is approximate and rough, as nothing is like a real critter. But when I test in wet news print, I can get a feel when I do side by side with all the bullets to get a feel for toughness, relative. I do this kind of testing in situations where I am "off" the normal velocity window for a round, or using one which has less info available. like my Rowlands or Supers, or downloaded 454's trying bullets that might be more suitable driven to higher velocities.

Craig

My preference in .357 - .45 has always been cast bullets, in an alloy no harder than 16:1.