I am looking for some input on hunting with a semi wadcutter in my 44. I have been looking at something along the lines of the Lyman 429244 or something close to that pushed as hard as to keep the accuracy. Any input is very much appreciated.

Thanks.

They will work fine, but I prefer more modern cast bullet designs (LBT in particular) with larger meplats. They do more internal damage than the bullet with the smaller meplat.

A lot of time went into the development of the Semi-wadcutter style bullet, with the sharp bore diameter front driving band the wound channel is at least bore diameter. The round nosed flat point bullets are a fairly significant step backward. That bullet design was a concession to tubular magazine rifles.

To achieve the same effect as a good semi-wadcutter the meplat of the RNFP bullet would have to be bore diameter, a wadcutter..

That said, my favorite bullet in my .45 Colts guns is the RNFP bullet, not because it is more effective, but because they load so much easier into the fire arm. I have a lot of interaction with bears and mt. lions, my Redhawk .45 Colt and two speed loaders with RNFP bullets accompany me regularly.

I have the Lyman 300 grn mold that drops at 330+, but I don't think that a really big deer needs something like that. I would like to stay around a 240-250 grn.

Thanks for the input guys.

Actually the shoulder or step limits meplat diameter. A lot of research and development went into LBT designs. Nothing wrong with semi wadcutters or that misused term "Keith-style," but we have progressed beyond them. I too used to use them, but then I discovered those three letters L-B-T..............

This is what I am talking about:

Ya know that " Keith " word doesn't carry well in this country. I try to stay away from using it.

There's nothing wrong with them, I just feel that there is better and that we have progressed.

The man not the bullet. Truth be known it was probably someone else's design to begin with if you know what I mean.

Phil Sharpe.......if I can recall correctly.

The bullet in your attached photo is not far from being a wad cutter. The Meplat looks to be about 85%.

I have a design, (Using the Mt. Molds software) for a 200 gr. bullet, for the .357 that has nearly the same configuration.

A wadcutter won't fly nearly as well as any LBT I have tested at any meaningful distances. They don't fly nearly as well as a semi-wadcutter either in my opinion. That bullet in the photo has an 81% meplat, it's a true WFN from an LBT mold.

Veral Smith's book, "Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets" is a great source of information about the various designs. I really feel Veral's designs are superior to all others, and often copied.

I have had good luck with semi wadcutters in the past, but they don't do the damage like an LFN, WFN or WLN.

Whit
At what point or percentage point of meplat do they stop flying well at distance. Some designs are said to be good at closer ranges but don't fly well at long range such as the[ hammerhead]? Unless you cast your own a good cast is sometimes more expensive than a good jacketed.I hunt in close with my revolvers, but like to air them out on steel at longer ranges.

Many have maligned the WFN for not flying very well much over 100 - 150 yards, but I wonder if the bullets tested were true LBT designs or some of many copies that aren't quite right. I don't really know at what percentage point you reach a tipping point -- so to speak. But when the meplat gets too big, they tend not to stabilize in flight, and some bullets I have tested with really big meplats don't stabilize well in media either.

The 429244 is a Thompson design and has the same meplat as the LFN. The 429421 is the Kieth and its' meplat is a little smaller than the LFN.

I have shot several 5 gallon buckets of lead using both bullets. I prefur the 244 because it seems to be just as accurate and it weighs more than the Kieth.

I am able to hit milk jugs at 200yards with my scoped 44mag SBHH with the 244. I drive it very fast with H110/296 powder. I shot the bullet over a chronograph and found that it needed to be driven VERY hard in order to get the velocity ES down. It went from +/- 100fps to +/- 6 fps as soon as H110 found its sweet spot with this bullet (this was +2-3 gr. over my new manuals...but still within limits of my old Hodgdon manual)

I now shoot a LBT LFN copy Krammer style 285grGC. (Not because I feel it is better, just that it is 4cav, heavier, and gives me a HP option.

The have a true LBT WFN, and it is one I could not enjoy (and I sure have tried), because it has a a range limit (more like an "End" where the bullet just refuses to fly past)...100yards? 200 yards??..who cares! I cannot enjoy shooting somthing that has a definite distance where it becomes "Broken".

It is like having a Mustang or a Ferrari with a governer at 72mph...I may not ever need to go faster, but...

Wes, I don't think the 429244 has as large a meplat as a true LFN. It would have to be in the neighborhood of 75% or thereabouts. That shoulder can limit how much meplat a bullet has because of the step down in diameter. Granted, I have seen semi-wadcutters with really big meplats, but I don't recall the 429244 as having one that big. Do you have one on hand to measure, Wes? I just don't recall and could be way off.

If one is playing with their revolvers at extreme ranges, perhaps the WFN isn't a great choice, but if you are trying to stop something big and hairy, up close and personal, it is a great choice. Out east we don't have the opportunity to shoot really long ranges particularly when hunting, but handgun hunting for me is an up close affair. That's the whole point IMHO. However, it is all academic if you can't hit what you are aiming at. Therefore, accuracy and placement trump all else. I think we can all agree on that point!

Oh, and Happy New Year, gentlemen!

If you paint the semi wadcutter from the me plat to the sharp wadcutter shoulder and then shoot into media you will find that the wound channel is a direct result of the me plat and the paint will remain on the driving band should. In other words it does not serve at all in the creating the wound channel

Yeah Whit, I just measured one of my 244's and it mics at .300..which is 70% of .430. I believe that the LBT LFN is also .300

One thing that always comes to mind is that the WFN has a reputaion for destablizing in the wound channel...so straight line penitration is not possible. And the big meplat becomes a mute point.

I think part of the reason behind shooting big heavy cast is the bullet will go from jawbone to "brown-eye" of a big browney...this won't happen if the bullet tips over and stops

I shoot all my hunting guns as far as I have the range to shoot for practice [200- 400yds].Where I hunt 100 yds is a looooong shot with 60 and under being the norm.My peep and open sighted revolvers are for 60 and under on game amimals[preferably way under]I do like them close. But I do like to shoot long range on steel and targets and my xtps shoot well even at extended range. I haven't found a cast that shoots as well [for me yet] but I keep trying.

Wes -- the LFN is just under 75% (74.5). The WFN will track straight in any media I have shot them into, particularly in animal flesh. I have never heard that they don't track straight and have found them to be very stable in media. I will bring samples to North Carolina in a couple of weeks!!

I just dug out my copy of Verals book..(Pg.102)and he lists the LBT LFN 44 as having a .300 meplat. The WFN he lists as .340

Can't wait for North Carolina!!!!

I have had lengthy conversations with Veral about this and the LFN should be .125-inch under bore diameter and the WFN .90-inch under bore diameter.

Well thanks for all of the input guys. I should be ready by next October.

I have shot and seen shot a lot of game with WFN bullets from an LBT mold and have never seen nor even heard of them destabilizing in game. They will destabilize at long range, so if you want to plink at targets 500 yards away the LFN is a better choice, but for hunting the WFN produces large wound channels.


I have seen LBT copy cat bullets destabilize in game and test media, but not a real LBT WFN from an LBT mold

JWP,

I suspect that some of that can be attributed to the nose smearing or fracturing from the bullet not being cast with the appropriate content. As you know, material and construction is just as important as shape ;^)

Craig

Well, I guess you guys should know with all your testing. Sorry for spreading rumors.

With my own shooting, I couldn't get the WFN to fly straight...so I didn't test them on many critters.

I only shot one deer with a LBT WFN...On a nice Whitetail buck, the bullet went shoulder to hip and blew a fist sized hole out the hip as it exited...this was a heavy loaded 440gr out of the 500S&W at about 40 yards.

I know there was some testing info posted a while back, where the guy couldn't get the WFN (Style) to track through milk jugs...but might not have been a LBT at all.

I applogize for second guessing you guys that have so much experience with the LBT WFN and handgun hunting. They sure look like they will blow a brutal hole