I'm going to try handloading this year, and am curious about bullet styles. Initially, all my loading will be for 44mag. So, what do yall load? I'm looking for a good, all purpose hunting load, that's accurate, and a solid performer on game. Could some users of different type slugs chime in on how each one is SUPPOSED to perform? Wfn? Jsp? Jhp? Wadcutter? Hardcast? Ftx? Xtp? Good grief! Where to start? I get how hp's should work, but also get how they sometimes "clog" and dont expand. Do jsp's have softer lead that just "smears" on impact? If hardcast dont expand, why does everyone say they kill so well? And is hardcast legal in states that require expanding bullets? Some ppl swear by plain soft lead? I'm absolutely 100% new to reloading, and am gonna get a book or 3 on it, but I'd like a friendly discussion on how bullets work. Y'all don't get fussy with each other about "cast vs jacketed ", and get the thread locked, but please tell me about your successful bullet types, and ones that maybe consistently let you down. Also, what kind of velocities do some of these examples need to be pushed at? Any particular powders work really well in a 44? I have 2 Ruger 44's, and I understand they can handle a stout load, but I'd kinda like to start out with a reasonable magnum load, instead of loading something that will cause me to start flinching. Thanks in advance, and God bless.

XTP

I've also always had great success with the240 grain Hornady XTP's. As far as bullet speed, accuracy is more important then speed. Stay in between the powder spec's layed out by the company who makes the powder and consentrate on grouping. I've been playing with accurate #9 in my contender with not alot of success, but that doesn't mean it won't group good for you.
Hodgon H110 is also a great powder.

I think personally the fun part of reloading is burning powder and throwing bullets until I find what works for me.

First of all, what are you going to hunt. There is no such thing as one bullet for all situations. A Nosler Partition is great for elk, deer moose, but sucks on yotes, fox. XTP are great as an all around shooter. Hardcasts are accurate annd shoot well but cost damn near as much as jacketed bullets.

I also have had countless hollowpoints not expand in lots of different media, including front shoulders of elk. Read through some info on solid copper bullets.

I have shot a lot of whitetails here in Iowa with a 44mag any bullet works with good shot placement. I choose to shoot hard cast for the times I don’t put a good shot on a deer for me I like a bullet that breaks as many bones as possible. I have been shooting Cast Performance 300gr WFNGC in my Encore with Win 296 shoots great for me. XTP always shoots great in any gun I have used very accurate and easy to find a load that works this is what I choose for my 10mm Glock I keep shots around 25yds because I suck with iron sights

been have vision problems this last year.

Aaron

LBT

I will give you the advice that I was given when I first started reloading, and I load thre diffrent loads for the 44,

First choose one bullet weight and one type, be it hard-cast or jacketed

Second, Choose one powder and bulid your load, using the ladder system(.5 grain increments)till you find the load with the least amout of dispersion. For magnum levels I say look no futher then 296/H110
IF you are looking for a moderate load I been using HS-6 and like it alot,

IMHO, I prefer powders that fill the case and gives you less of a chance on a double charge. To me this is an added security.

Practice with what you are going to hunt with, If you want less recoil shoot somthing smaller!


My vote Is HARDCAST! 265 and up

XTP

I just started reloading late this last summer, and went with XTP as well. In the load I worked up for my 460 S&W, the XTP mags are shooting sub MOA. I will be using the regular XTP when working up the load for my 45 colt simply because I had such a good experience working with the XTP mags. Now, that being said, I have yet to take anything with that load larger than a paper target, but 300 grains of almost ANYTHING will take, well, almost anything!

Oh, and the H110 has been awesome! We have some pretty extreme temperature and altitude changes here in Colorado. Specially when you take in to acount where I live compared to where I hunt. The accuracy of the load doesn't change enough for me to notice it. I've zeroed my Encore, and it shoots dead on no matter where I am at, or what temperature it is outside.

I vote for the XTP's, and the H110.

DISCLAIMER: Just so one of you doesn't jump my ass later on for trying something different than I posted above, I MIGHT also try a JSP in my 45 colt.

In the beginning stick with the basic bullets such as the XTP, and a good flat nose hard cast of about the same weight, say 240 gr. Hornady recommends between 900 and 1800fps for this bullet, as for the lead lets say a range of 900 to 1200fps (don't know which brand is best, I cast my own). H110 powder is a good powder to work with, I also recommend Star-line cases as they can take a bit more use and abuse. Look in the loading manuals and play with the portions till you find the one that your gun likes.

If you run through the forums you will find all kinds of information about the different bullets, but I will attempt a quick break down (and hope I don't start a riot). The JHP's can clog but so far in my experience if the shot placement is good even with the decreased expansion it will still down the game. Soft points will expand as well because the lead is driven back into itself, they tend to expand less than the hollow points and work as a compromise for expansion and penetration. Any lead core bullet that is exposed is going to loose some lead. The solid lead bullets for hunting work because the flat portion (meplat, 72% or higher) of the nose will cut tissue during its passage rather than push it away, combined with the shock damage of the bullet it can be very effective. Again it all comes down to shot placement.

Fellas, we have a winner!!! I think this is the one statement we can ALL agree on!

Definitely, but your bullet still has to reach and destroy the vitals. No way around that.

First, welcome to the wonderful world of reloading. It can be confusing at first but listen to the guys here and read back posts on the calibers that you are loading for. Lots of knowledge to glean here.

The "perfect bullet" is in the eye of the handgunner. I came from the archery world where it is just as bad when discussing speed vs KE, sleek penetrating heads vs wide cut on contact, heavy vs light. Same concepts. I will tell you to try what YOU think is best and either prove or disprove your own theories.

But above all........shot placement is paramount to any good harvest. A bad shot with a good load is still just a bad shot!

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

Boot, I might have already shared this with you but here is an article by Randy Garrett on this subject.

I'm glad to hear that you're considering taking up handloading. I think that you will enjoy it!

Boot, What are you going to shoot?? Match the bullet to the game. I have shot animals with both cast and jacketed bullets and as long as the bullet was put in the right spot, I would have my animal.... Personally, I have shot more game with jacketed bullets, either JHP or JSP. Depends on what I was shooting. Guess its like Ford`s or Chevy`s....Good luck.

My turn.

Cast can be more finicky than jacketed in terms of powder choice. Be aware that there are swaged, soft and hard cast bullets. Magnums powders with soft bullets can be a MESS. The same with "fast" pistol powders and hard cast bullets.

Start with jacketed (XTP) or study up on cast bullet selection and select your powders wisely.

BTW....try Penn Bullets. He casts based on various application (target, hunting, etc) and the cost is reflected in that due to the different material mixes. Give Bob a call (or e-mail...tell him Dan Bowers sent you) and he'll give you load data.

Have you had good luck on game you've shot with them? What is the typical wound cavity look like and how far have yours traveled after a typical hit? Sorry for the random questions but I like to know what others experiences are with bullet performance....what can I say, I'm an engineer through and through! Over the years, I have definitely found I have certain preferences on what bullets I usually match with certain game and it changes with each gun sometimes due to each guns desires or where I'm hunting etc. I don't believe in the magic one bullet does it all best theory personally and am alway curious to see what others think that state they are definitely one way only. If it works, it works. Can't deny that but I just think that situations/guns/game sometimes can benefit from a little tweaking versus the one stop shop route

To the poster, the XTP will be easily found and performs very well on deer from my experiences in both handguns and black powder rifles which obviously shove them a little harder than the handguns we use them in mostly. If you decide to go the cast route, give the 300 SWC RCBS bullet a try. There is some really good information out there by Mr. John Taffin on loads he has tested. You can find them on the http://www.sixguns.com site if its still operational under the taffin test section if I remember correctly. good info with different powders, bullets and load strengths. just remember, that big 44 bullet doesn't have to be firewalled to be effective

Good luck buddy!

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt44mag.htm

Glenn,
My personal experance is limited with pistols though I spend alot of time at the range and do enough testing with bullets in media,If I had the time my field experances would change. As a fellow engineer(Well soon enough) I understand, and let me take your post from the top.

I have butchered more game with hard cast shot by others than I care to count, mostly pistol caliber rifles(44 mag) the wound channel is normally an inch or so and this is due to the wide metplat and being shot at moderate velocites, 1600.

Now Distance traveled by the animal depends, some just don't know there dead yet. My brother in law shot a pig last spring that dropped in it tracks.

Are hardcast magic bullets..no..you still need to hit your mark but I choose hard cast in my pistol for the follow and this is just my opinion.

In my case my pistol is a 4" 44 mag, I like heavy for caliber bullets so 300 gr. Now I will play devils advocate could I shoot a 300 grain XTP....yes...but at the velocitys I get, the bullet will not fuction as designed, I know this as I have shot them into test media.

For me I feel jacketed bullets are velocity sensitive, they work better at the upper levels, while a hardcast can work at say 900 +.

Now on the flip side not all jacket bullets are created equal and some can be pushed to hard, a couple years ago my cousin shot his first deer with a 44 mag carbine and a 240 hollow point, IMHO the bullet was not purpose built for the task at hand. Well long story short he hit the shoulder and we tracked that deer for a mile plus with no avail, and plenty of blood but it dried up, that bullet broke up on impact of the bone. When I came home I tested that bulet in media and it broke apart due to the impact velocity.(scrapnel is what it looked like).

So for me and my pistols I will shoot cast, and its a bullet for any scenario I find my self in, no such thing as overkill..

If luck is on my side I have some pictures posted up next week of the pig I drop with some 300 grain hardcast, the pigs just have to take a strol past my stand...

Seasons44, I'll play devil's advocate & this is just to show a little bit of what I was told about cast bullets. Granted I'm not a novice & wasn't when this was explained to me. I took a Water Buff a couple of years ago with an encore in 50 AE using a WFN cast bullet. The shot placement was 2 shots through the lungs and the results were well so-so. The Water Buff died,but the wound channels were not anything to write home about and the penetration was not nearly as good as what you may be led to believe. I was told that the bullet wasn't heavy enough (370 gr.) remember it's a 50 AE not a 500 Smith. The case capacity is limited, & I pushed it too fast, and the nose was too wide. LOL. Go figure!! What I'm saying is experience tops the cake. Shooting phone books is a far cry from shooting game animals. The paper helps give you an idea of what your bullet will do, but you'll learn a lot more when you yourself put some bullets through some of the game you have handgunned. What I'm saying is advice is just that, advice. A real life practical is much better. What I've learned is that a .375 or larger bottleneck round gives me all the power and penetration that I will need without a cast bullet. I'm not trying to ruffle any tail feathers, just giving my thoughts. If someone likes a certain bullet style be it jacketed or cast and it works for them great, but don't be misled by someone telling you than you can't reach & destroy the vitals of game animals unless you use a cast bullet.

Franchise, no feathers ruffled, I agree expearance trumps all though wet news pack gives you a pretty good idea of terminal performance, and my post is just my opinion and my " reaserch" so to speek, and it was only directed at revolvers, since single shots are not my thing, though a bottle neck 375 is a diffent animal. and would be comparing apples to oranges.

You gonna be able to come down this weekend?

Regardless of what is popular with any style of bullet, "popular opinion" has never harvested a single animal. The best laboratory for testing is in the woods, not between anyone's ears.

When I start hunting wet news packs, I'll agree that the wet packed newpaper or phonebooks will give me great terminal performance data for game

However, I would have to respectfully disagree that it gives you a terminal performance estimate for actual game. What I believe personally that it can do is give you a "basis" to work off of with different bullets, meaning that you can compare bullets through the same medium but an actual animal is numerous different "mediums" if you will as the bullet passes from one side to the other. Muscle tissue will affect a slug differently than say the lung tissue, etc. In wet print, JHP, never do well. They clog, etc. If that is all you look at, I would say they are a failure also but in real life, they perform well. On deer size game, they work extremely well. The 300 XTP mag that you mentioned earlier in both 44 and 45 are extremely hard. I can tell you for a fact that the wound channel left by one of them in a deer is pretty good most times. I've shot them at deer at distances of 15 yards out to about 120 with that particular bullet with my Freedom Arms 454. They start out about 1620 from the 7.5" version and are just devastating. The bullet still doesn't expand much at that velocity. At 65 yards, I've actually got explosive exhalation on a large doe. We had that one on film, I haven't seen the video in years and don't know that I can put my hands on it but if I do, I'll post it. That is impressive to see. The entry just in front of the left ham was about 3" or so and the exit in the front of the offside shoulder was about 1". I've hit them at 120 yards with the 300 XTP Mag and hit the point of the left front shoulder and exit the opposite side ham. Full length penetration, DRT. Exit about the size of your thumb. I could go on but won't bore the others with stories of blood and gore but I will say that a 240 XTP is a very efficient killer on a whitetail deer. I've shot them from 1200 fps to upwards of 1800 and I've not had one come apart yet. The exit holes on lung shot broadside deer vary but the blood trails are not at all hard to follow

With cast, I don't usually see the same dramatic wound channels. However, each animal is different as is each situation. For instance, the bison from this Fall taken with a 385 grain HP 475 Linebaugh cast slug had really large holes in the rib cages and the tissue surrounding the 1" hole or so exit in the rib cage was bloodshot about 3-4" each side of the exit. The lungs had large 1-2" plugs taken out of them. Would a heavy 400 grain XTP from the 475 have worked, absolutely but in this case, the cast hp slug did an outstanding job and the wound channel was very impressive. I've shot a bunch of 300 grain slugs in deer/rams/hogs and the wound channels were not at all as impressive as the bison. Its always different and always fun to see how the next bullet worked. When a JHP is used within the constraints, it works amazingly well. Can they fail? Sure but its typically the case of a bad shot or the shooter chose to shoot at a bad angle etc. the cast can and often will penetrate a little better and allow you to take shots that you normally wouldn't take. So, does that make it better that you can now take what may be considered a marginal shot? Not to me. Can a cast bullet fail, sure, they can be too hard and driven too fast etc. I've seen a 500 SW hit a large hog in OK a few years back. The shots were true but to my amazement, the slugs DID NOT penetrate. These were big large cast slugs. The guide took the hog down with a rifle after the 2 shots the guy took with the big pistol. We took the slugs out of the hog and they were mangled and did not enter the body cavity. I would have NEVER believed it had I not seen it. But it happens. I'm not saying I don't use cast. I do, and a lot of them, in fact, I took a big hog the next morning on that particular hunt with a 420 LFN from the 475 and both shots penetrated both shoulders. I'm just saying don't poo poo off the jacketed bullets until you have a chance to try them for yourself and get your own depth of knowledge in the field and not just at books and "media".

Good luck on the hunt this weekend, I hope that its the start of your own personal log on bullet performance from your sixguns. But do try different things every now and then just to keep it fun

And if that aforementioned 300 grain slug is a semi-wadcutter I too wouldn't be overly impressed with the wound channel. The size of the meplat will be limited by the semi-wadcutter profile. Now, I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the mold didn't come from Veral Smith, it ain't an LBT. Next to "Keith-style," no other terms are more misused than LBT, WFN, or LFN, or even WLN. More often than not, the LBT claims are just that, claims. There are a lot of bad bullet designs with LBT attached to them that aren't the real deal, and don't work like the real deal.

I agree that nothing truly shows what a bullet will do on game, than when it is used on game. But I disagree that testing bullets in wetpack is a waste of time and not useful. No, hollow points don't do particularly well in wetpack, but at revolver velocities they often don't do too well in flesh either. They are inconsistent, and that is what kills them for me. But, if deer is all that you plan on hunting, knock yourself out. They do work well.

Obviously, if you plan on jacking the velocities up, there are better choices than hardcast bullets, but I don't. They work fine at moderate speeds. I just fail to see the perceived need for more diameter when starting out at a half-inch, particularly at the cost of penetration.

No one said it was a waste of time or wasnt useful. I said that i dont believe it can accurately equate to tissue disruption. Wet packs to me can compare two slugs abilities to penetrate and such in that same medium. As I said, I've had jacketed that failed to penetrate also but tissue damage was outstanding and they never took a step. I don't deem them a failure just cause they don't fully penetrate. I like exit holes but sometimes, it just isn't in the cards I guess. Dead is dead, right

While wetpack doesn't mimic flesh, it sure does show you the difference in damage the various nose profiles administer.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/2861098911

260+ pages of terminal performance and bullet designs created and tested, tested using wetpack

I know the guys that performed all of that testing and designed many of those bullets and once they tested them in the lab, they test them on animal flesh.

As long as the wetpack is an absolutely consistent medium from one pack to another. Ive done lots of testing and dont quote anything from it because i get well over a ten percent variation In my results so theyre essentially invalid.

I have had good results with all types of bullets and had poor results with all types. That said ive never not recovered an animal that i hit in the vitals with either type of bullets but the quality of the hits have allowed me to determine my favorites regardless of caliber and i like the barnes and the a frames the best but xtps work well too. In cast i like beartooths unquestoonably the best. I think xtps and beartooths and xtps are the beat value for the dollar

yep, shoot what shoots best in your gun and have confidence in it. I prefer jacketed but alot of guys take animals with cast. The new jacketed bullets aren't like the ones of yesteryear and short of the biggest heaviest game such as Rhino, Hippo, or Elephant they will cleanly and ethically take any animal on the planet and they have. I wouldn't think twice about taking on moose or brownies, or even a water buff with a 454 and 300gr Partitions or A-Frames, at the same time I wouldn't have an issue if all I had were hardcast or XTP Mags.

I know Micheal458 as well and at least two bullet makers changed there bullet design based off of these tests.

I firmly believe that wet pack test done properly will give a good indication of what that bullet will do in MUCLE tissue. One can get creative and put wet hide in front and sone bone a few inches deep if you want to get a real indication

Let me add that I had a bad experience with a "so called" "LfN LBT style" flat point a few years ago on about an 800 pound bison. The bullet tumbled and did not give more than 4 t0 6 inches of stratight line penetration. Latter testing in wet pack the bullet di the exact same thing. The bullet WAS NOT AN LBTLFN. The meplat measurement were not to Veral Smiths spec nor was the nose profile.

I have never seen a true LBT flat point hard to not work as advertised. They give excellent penetration and large wound channels if cast of the properly allow for the intended purpose.

I have experienced poor bullet performance with jacketed and hard cast bullets, but my go to get serious hunting bullet is an LBT flat point hard cast. I have had nothing but stellar performance with them over a wide range of game animals from small to extremely large

Once you shoot an animal with a handgun...everything will look different the next morning because it will be real. Good luck.

All of the bullets from quality manufactures work well for their intended use. Some seem to shine. That's why you get so many people sayint the xtp is the best. They are accurate in most guns perform reliably and are inexpensive when compared to other quality bullets. Expansion allways compromises penetration. The wider the meplat on a cast is also a compromise in penetration. Take jwp475's "so callled" LBT bullet he used on bison with limited penetration. It may have been an excellent bullet for deer since this tumbling action causes massive damage and adequate penetration on deer sized game. The keith style bullet often is known for great penetration at relatively low velocities acomplishes this because of a smaller meplat and therefore causes less damage.
As far as legality of cast bullets in states that require expanding bullets is I have never recovered a bullet of any design that didn't show some expansion though some required a micrometer to see it. Those laws are mainly designed to prevent the use of fmj ammo.
I shoot mostly jacketed bullets in my hunting guns. Good cast bullets cost me more and cheap cast have cost more time scrubbing barrels than their savings have been worth to me. If you choose a quality bullet from a quality manufacturer designed for hunting big game it will perform well regardless of if it is cast or jhp or jsp 99+ percent of the time. There is the less than one percent that the cast bullet will shatter, or the jhp will blow up on the shoulder. Most of the stories you hear about this type of bullet failing or that type of bullet failing and the game never recovered is mostly user error or unseen obstacles between the shooter and game.

I prefer the R-P 240 gr JHP for deer because it is a bit softer than the XTP, and yields greater expansion in deer sized animals. Greater expansion results in more tissue damage, which generally equates to more stopping power. I have probably killed 25+ deer in 40+ years hunting with the 44 Mag in both rifle and pistol, and 90% of those were with the R-P bullet. Without a spine, or neck shot, most did not simply drop in their tracks due to the lack of hydrostatic shock from the caliber's relatively low velocity. Although, few went further than 30 yards.

I run my 240 gr. loads at 1,400+ fps, which is pretty much max.. The additional velocity also boosts expansion, and might help with the XTP if you decide to stay with that bullet. Nothing wrong with the XTP. IMHO it is just a little tough in the 44 Mag for deer. The load that I use is 24.0 gr H-110, which is a book load and not excessive. It is also very accurate in most of my 44 Mags..