Hi guys. I have a couple of questions that I hope I can get some opinions on. I'm sure there are varying opinions so I hope to get some feedback.

A couple of months ago I picked up an encore in 7mm-08. I've recently got a scope and pachmyer grips on it. Starting there, my questions are such: I don't currently reload, and a buddy of mine who has a heck of alot more hunting and shooting experience than I do says that unless you are shooting an obscure/unavailable/highly specialized caliber, that reloading really doesn't save any money.
What do you guys think? When I go to buy 7mm-08, it seems that the manufacturers add a premium to this round; if .270, .308 or .30-06 is $20/box, 7mm-08 is $28.
My other question is about those long action cartridges; do they waste powder? I was told that the '06 and .270 aren't as efficient as the .308 based cartridges; the increase in recoil (over the 7mm-08) does not result in an increase in performance.
I'm sure that topics like these have been covered before, but i used the search function, and didn't find quite what I was looking for.
Please make me smarter, oh wise and knowledgable Oz... I mean Handgun Hunters...

Your buddy does not quite understand what he is talking about. There is no question that handloaded rounds are cheaper than factory, as long as you do not factor in your time. The other thing that folks often miss is that the cost of reloading equipment (not caliber specific supplies) are large up front, and to adequately calculate the costs, you need to amoritize the cost over some amount of time (number of rounds).

Wasting powder is more nebulus. Sure, you can use a powder for a given round that may not optimize something over another powder, and technically perhaps waste a grain or 3. And when I say optimize, this is usually velocity. When folks argue efficiency, they usually mean that driving a certain caliber and weight of bullet to a given velocity being achieved in a different round that can be done with less powder (and sometimes recoil). When efficiency gets more into terminal performance, things are much more debatable. In terms of just the powder, you can review a loading manual (site) that lists everything, and do some math, if so inclined. Look at 30-06, v. 308 v. 300 Wetherby v. some of the short 30 caliber magnums, for example. You can see what it takes in terms of powder to get the same bullet to different velocities. It gets more complicated when you throw in pressure, heat to the barrel which errods the throat, recoil etc.

To have a meaningful conversation, you really need to define what you mean by performance, within a specific caliber.

And no, this topic is probably hard to find here, as most folks who get into reloading already understand the cost part of it, and are doing it for cost, accuracy, obsolete or just plain fun and reward.

Craig

In the end you can tailor your load for your gun, and for the game that you are after. Also, there is a lot of satisfaction with taking an animal with a "roll your own"...to think about it I have only killed 3 deer with factory loads and one of those was a shotgun.

Thanks Bearbait.

I thought he may have been a little off on the reloading part, but he may have been thinking about starting from scratch; cost of reloading equipment and components vs box o' shells, without the amortization.

When I say performance, I should clarify that I am a new handgun hunter. Not only that, but at this point I have only hunted rabbits, with a shotgun, in the last 2 1/2 decades. I bowhunted deer, unsuccessfully, when I was a teenager, so I'm basically starting over.

I think, maybe, that I don't know what questions I should be asking. Perhaps I should ask if the 7mm-08 is a more versatile round, in terms of animals, than the .270/.308/.30-06.

Again, thanks for the response. I have alot to learn, and do from this community.

Yes, son......read below.

Reloading DOES save you money.

Now, the equipment is going to take an initial investment but you then have it forever and when properly cared for will not wear out.

Last month I helped a friend reload 140 rounds of .270 Winchester. He was buying Hornady 20ct boxes for $35. We reloaded all him brass (140rds) for around $75...so just over $.50 per round. He was paying $1.70 per round.

Primers will run you around $35.00 per thousand ($3.50/100). A pound of powder will about $25.00 (a pound is about 7,000 grains). Then the bullets will also go about $25/100 unless you are shooting bonded or something else fancy.

For the 7mm-08 you will use 40gr of Varget w/ a 139gr BTSP. So a pound of powder will yield 175 rounds (7000gr/40gr). So each round will cost you $.14 in powder ($25 per pound/175 rounds).

So, for each round we have $.14 in powder, $.035 for a primer, and $.25 for a bullet. If my math is right, each round will total $.425. That's better than $1.40 each for a $28.00, 20ct box.

Make sense.....that savings will pay for your reloading equipment fast!

He's right. You won't save any money reloading. You'll just shoot more and spend the same amount.

Aaron

That sounds alot like 'you can never have too many encore barrels'.

All of which will make you a better shooter ;-)

What? Shoot MORE? Awww Dad.......

Reloading for me is more about personal satisfaction than anything else. I love to tinker. I make my own arrows, test gear beyond what the average person does, and drive myself to understand every aspect of my hobbies.

I'm sure if done correctly you can save money. I'm just in it for the fun and education. And make the most lethal rounds I can for a particular species / weapon combination.

hmm. food for thought.

For S's and giggles, what would you gentlemen consider to be the high end animal for the 7mm-08? I mean, how big/tough of an animal would you take with it, and where would you think you needed more gun?

I wouldn't go brown bear hunting with it. Other than that I think it can take any game in north america as long as the shots are kept to reasonable ranges and the shot placement is good. My buddy used my wifes 7mm-08 with sierra 140gr prohunters and shot a dandy black bear. It was a bit over 6' and had a 18.5" skull.

Aaron

You ALWAYS need MORE gun!

I know folks that have taken elk with a 7mm-08. One members daughter took an elk with a .260 Remington handgun. Within a reasonable range and excellent shot placement that would be about my limit. But in the continental US that is about as big as the game gets.

Would you put the .270 in the same category?

The 270 has more case capacity than the 7-08, but you might not see much advantage with the shortgun. In a rifle the 270 would have the upper hand.

Interesting. Less barrel length to enable the increase in powder to burn?

Or, go to a larger bore. A larger bore will suffer less from shorter tubes than a smaller bore. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle there is no more push, and the more space for the gasses to expand, the more push. Bigger bullets move a bit slower, and drop a bit more at distance, but carry more energy and hit harder. There is no free lunch, longer barrel or larger bore, it is all a compromise when it comes to efficiency.

That is correct. generally, rounds that are designed for rifles lose some velocity in the shorter Encore. But some rifle rounds do pretty well if you are 14 inches or so.

One thing to consider is that you need to realize that we have way more bullets in all calibers these days to anymore consider "conventional wisdom". Especially if the wisdom is coming from some rifle shooters who are more old school. The difference between calibers is much less distinct, especially when looking at something like 284 and 30. When looking at calibers, one decent consideration is the available weight spread on the ammo or components.

With the 7-08 you will probably have a better selection of lighter bullets, compared to the 30. With the lighter bullets you might have a better round for thinner/smaller game where distance is at issue. I see you are in Denver, so for me the 7-08 might be a slightly better antelope round ;^) Or perhaps varmints like rock chucks (marmots), or if you decided to practice on Prairie Dogs. The 30 might be a little better for mule deer and elk, but back to my earlier point, you can easily match a .284 diameter bullet for larger critters. Now if you asked about the difference between a .223 and a 45-70, that is more straight-forward. With the mid-bore rounds, and wondering about differences in what essentially one caliber (roughly speaking) pick your poison.

With Encore's (altough my experience was with contenders) a reasonable game plan would be to spread your barrels so that you cover more ground. Going from .284 to .30 might make less sense than perhaps looking at the 33 or 35 caliber options for your next barrel. Obviosly if you decide not to get into reloading, your choices might differ a bit. And certainly what you want to hunt will also influence your decision.

Craig

So, the 7mm-08 might cover antelope, whitetail, black bear (?). Perhaps 338 federal for elk/moose?

I do not have any experience with the 338, but I would expect so. It looks like you can run a heavier bullet at similar velocity as the 7-08. And if I read correctly, it uses 308 brass, necked up. I think I am seeing your idea here ;^)

Craig

Yeah. It seems to me that with the success of the other .308 based rounds, 338 fed may be something to look at.

It is on my short list.

I shoot a 338 Fed in a FA single shot. I love the round. 210 gr partition will do anything that I want done. IMHO, it would be a better choice for elk sized animals than the 7-08.

I also have a 7-08 & a 260 Rem bbl for the FA single shot. They are all shooters, but I find myself using the 338 most of the time, regardless of the size of the game.

The 338 federal does seem like a good round. I have a 7mm-08 and enjoy it. I would say it is good enough for anything to the size of elk as far as I am good enough to shoot. Like any caliber you will have to select the proper bullet for the game animal and the velocity you will achieve.

The 358 Winny would be another good one. If you get it with a 357 bore it opens up a wide array of bullet options tailored for the shortgun.

wtroper, how is the recoil in the 338 fed? what would you compare it to?

Lots of Swedes have killed moose with the 6.5X55. I think the 7-08 would do equally as well. Shot placement, IMHO, is a lot more important than power.

Matt C,

I just noticed your question. For me, the 338 Fed recoil is not bad in the FA single shot. I would consider it less than the 338 JDJ #2 in the contender, but it is more than the 7-08.

While I do not rate myself in the category with Whit & some others here, I am not terribly sensitive to recoil.

It all depends on the amount you shoot and what you want to achieve from reloading. I shoot IDPA as well as getting back into hunting. I have shot over 9,000 rounds through my 45 and over 2,000 through my 357 (38's) in a little over a year. I have paid for my equipment three fold just on those loads. I am now loading for my S&W 460 using Barnes bullets for a comprable Corbon load which run $69 for 20 rounds. I can load them for arox. $1.50 each.

If you have QL, you can build loads that are ballistically better, read more efficient, for the combo of barrel length/bullet you are using, in any caliber.

YMMV

Tia,
Don

I probably load about 100 rifle cartridges per year for 3 guns. But if I shoot pistol matches I shoot up over 200 rounds in a day. The pistol shooting is what got me into reloading. I started with a dillon 550 progressive press that was under 300 bucks. You can put out several hundred rounds per hour. But if you are just getting started an inexpensive Lee single stage press can be had for under 100 bucks and can do it all just slower. When you are learning slow can be a good thing. Check out Lee Precisions website and sign up for Midways emails. Those machines come on sale about every other month.

For the sake of arguement, buy a reloading book and read every page in it. Compare the calibers to each other. Read about reloading, read what it takes to do so. Read about each type of bullet and limitations. Then go purchase a good RCBS Partner press and a set of your rifle dies and break yourself in on that. Or, find a friend that reloads and have him take you through the ropes. But find a friend that knows what he is doing, because a careless one can get you killed.I had such a friend once, that thought all it takes is to dump powder into a case and cram a bullet on top. Almost ruined a beloved Savage 99! Again, reading every word in a Hornaday or Speer book is essential!

Reloading saves significantly on the cost per round. Well except maybe .223 then it just saves a little bit. Reloading 30 cal center-fire rounds runs me about $40 for 100. Typically I can shave half the cost of a factory loaded option. With that being said I figure how many factory boxes is needed to pay off the equipment. A Lee Loader will take 2 boxes to pay for, a lyman tong tool about 10 boxes. A inexpensive starter press and tools about 20 boxes. A Dillon progressive with the bells and whistles, probably closer to 100 boxes.

Matt, Don`t get stuck on those single shots. Pick up a good used five or six shot revolver. You`ll have a blast...