I want to go on my first elk hunt this fall. I am thinking about some of Colorados wilderness areas. I would like to pick one that also has decent mule deer hunting since I would like to go back every year or two and hunt one or the other letting me get to know one area well enough to improve my chances of being succesful on a regular basis. Since it would be my first elk it doesn't have to be over 350 but would like a decent chance of killing a nice bull. I don't mind hiking to get way back in an area and camp for the week. Most of the research I have done gives me alot of information on the best places to bow hunt during the rut but since I will be hunting during the first or second rifle season and will likely be using a wheelgun I figured I would ask here.

I live in Colorado, and if you want to hunt first or second season, you are gonna have to head up to the high country. Higher concentrations of big bulls are found up at the top of the state, and down at the bottom of the state. But the high elevation is nothing to laugh at. Hunting elk is one of the hardest hunts there is because of the terrain you are in, and the lack of oxygen.

You better be in good shape!!!

I got all kind of shapes but I wouldn't call me in shape. But I am working on it and should be in shape by this fall. I live in flat country but do decent in the mountains. The only thing I can't train for is altitude sickness. When I get a place narrowed down I may try to find a pack out service in case I am succesful. That will pretty much determine how far I can hunt from the road. I was looking at the west elk wilderness and will research it some more but I see alot of outfitters pictures on their website with alot of bulls that are just ok. I would be happy with a small five by five but not after hiring an outfitter to guide me. Most of the really nice elk pictures I have seen from that area appear to be from the 1980's judging from the clothing and camera quality.

Eric - good luck on the preparation and planning! Makes the time fly by...

Not that it's a substitute for lots and lots of cardio, but if you are prone to altitude sickness, talk to your physician about Diamox. It has worked well for several flatlanders that suffer from too little O2 with little time to acclimate.

Quote: EricS: "I want to go on my first elk hunt this fall. I am thinking about some of Colorados wilderness areas. I would like to pick one that also has decent mule deer hunting since I would like to go back every year or two and hunt one or the other letting me get to know one area well enough to improve my chances of being succesful on a regular basis. Since it would be my first elk it doesn't have to be over 350 but would like a decent chance of killing a nice bull." End Quote

And again:

[quote=EricS: ............ When I get a place narrowed down I may try to find a pack out service in case I am succesful. That will pretty much determine how far I can hunt from the road. I was looking at the west elk wilderness and will research it some more but I see alot of outfitters pictures on their website with alot of bulls that are just ok. I would be happy with a small five by five but not after hiring an outfitter to guide me. [/quote]

EricS: On the one hand it is fun to sense your enthusiasm and expectations, but on the other hand, with all due respect, that is a pretty tall order. If it was that "easy," there would be no need for any outfitters, esp. one that may only get you on a "bull that is just ok."

Here is the harvest statistics data for 2011 as 2012 is not out yet:

http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteCollecti...rvestSurvey.pdf

It sounds like you have been studying these already; at any rate the percent success rates here are for the unit and all elk taken; (cows, calves and bulls combined) It is not narrowed down to bulls, and certainly not "better bulls."

The units that I guide and hunt in are at 20 and 22 percent success rates, again this is on all elk taken.

So for me to advise you of a unit where you have a "decent chance of killing a nice bull," I have to know what do you consider a "decent chance."

Let's pick some numbers here. Let's say out of every 4 bulls harvested, realistically maybe 1 (25%) will be a five by five or better; ie. I am picking a number for comparison purposes and do not know if this is accurate, it may be even less considering how many hunters kill spikes and raghorns.

Taking my 22 percent success rate area, this would interpolate to about a 3 per cent chance of killing a 5X5 or better.

And the fact that you are from out of state, where you may not get a chance to do much scouting, really makes it even tougher, Eric.

And yes, you see me and others post pics here of good bulls taken, but speaking for myself, what you don't see posted is the behind the scenes just plain hard work and preparation and etc. that I do year around' that all boils down to one week during hunting season.

Not to mention that I don't always score two years in a row.

Eric,

You overall plan to find an area that you can learn and return is a good plan, as it might take that first season just to figure out where the critters are. And even then, year to year you will find that the elk cover a lot of ground. It is a pretty easy to job to find an area that contains cows that always around or passing through, but "nice" bulls are a complete different game. Your best bet is try and find the routes they like to take, and cross your fingers that you can time things.

One thing that we found over the years about elevation sickness is that if you can stay overnight down at a lower elevation where you fly in, it can really help. And I am guessing that you have researched it enough to know that it can kill you. It is common to have headaches and such, and these can be waited out. If you start to get vomiting and severe sluggishness, that person does not need medication, they need to get out, now. Another reason to to add some delay at various elevations to your trip. If one in your party is getting hit hard by the altitude, better to find out before you start your hike in.

Craig

Gregg, I guess for me a descent chance would be to at least find a 3 year old bull to hunt during a week of searching. I'm not talking about huge bulls. I woud like to see elk during my trip. I spent some time in the coconino nf above sedona, AZ and believe I could easily find huge bulls there since I saw them repeatedly when just out hiking. I know Colorado isn't Arizona and gets hunted alot harder.

That altitude thing ain't no joke. Most of us were in phenomenal when we landed in A'stan . And then a bag drag up a couple flight of stairs suggested otherwise.

I suggest doping.

Gregg-- They better not be killing spikes! That is illegal here in Colorado!!! There is a "four points on one side" restriction rule, unless one of the brow tines reaches a certain length. Perhaps that only applies to certain units, but as far as I understand, it applies state wide.

I've hunted a good bit in Colorado and have had really good success.

A couple of things to consider:


1. You won't ever, ever be in too good shape. If you are working on getting in shape now - thats a very good thing. I stay in shape year round - its easier that way. This time of year, I concentrate on strength with 1-2 cardio days. I concentrate on basic strength exercises - squats, pull-ups, bench - mostly multi muscle and core type stuff. Strong legs are a bonus - combine squats with walking lunges and your headed in the right direction. I'm fortunate to live minutes from the Smoky's and real mountains. We lack the elevation of the Rockies but terrain attitude is very similar. I hike with a pack and carry all our food/water for my wife and I.

2. There is altitude and then there's ALTITUDE. To me the dividing line is 10,000 feet. Anything below 10k isn't bad. Another break is 11,000 feet. I normally drive out mostly for 2 reasons - its cheaper and I can get all my junk there, second from the east, its a gradual climb across the plains. I usually spend 2 nites on way out. I've never had altitude issues beyond a slight headache for a day or two.

3. Elk pics standing in wide open meadows on flat terrain make good pics - but you won't find elk there during open season in Colorado. Elk will be in the side canyons and ridges - think security. Most guys talk about going in after them but few ever do. They dabble around the edges but thats about it. Be ready to go after them. Get away from the main access trail. 2-3 miles back in and 1 mile from the trail is a good rule of thumb. You won't find many back in there but you will find elk.

4. A good bull on public land will be a decent 5x5, 6x6 scoring in the high 200's. A 300+ in bull is a big bull about anywhere on public land.

Most important - have fun. Plan on spending a year or two learning an area before you actually get to the elk killing part.

Hope this helps.

Thinking about areas, I've spent a good bit of time in West Elk Wilderness (GMU 54), Zirkle (GMU 14), and Flat Tops (GMU 12, 23, 24). The West Elk Creek canyon holds some dandy elk but they are work. I've seen some nice bulls that I couldn't get to because of the terrain. West Elk also takes a bit of getting into. A couple of outfitters work the area in/around Bonfisk Peak and Rainbow Lake. GMU 54 has a good number of mule deer as well.

The Flat Tops is basically a first season deal. Elk are there second season but start moving out in second season if weather moves in. The kill stats should verify first vs second season.

Zirkle has some areas that can be reached by foot as well. A good forest service map is a really good place to start.

A few things to consider when hunting on your own. An elk is big. You'll need to determine - beforehand - how to handle 2-300 lbs of meat. You won't be throwing it all in a backpack and heading out. It is a 3-5 trip affair over whatever terrain you've covered to find elk. I found a couple of ranches that rent horses in areas I hunt. A horse is your best friend after an elk is down. It will be the best $2-300 you spend.

I think you have plenty of time to plan a hunt this fall. Spend some time with the kill stats over the past 5 years in seasons 1, 2, and 3. You'll likely be looking at second season. Despite the stats, most GMU's hold huntable elk numbers. The "secret" is finding them. Consider taking a summer vacation in the area(s) you want to hunt. My wife and I like to hike and go to Colorado most every year - her to hike, me to elk scout. Look for areas most guys will be camping and accessing areas, then look for out of the way places - steep, dark/deep, remote areas. Elk will head to those areas to get away from people. They also need to eat. Small meadows in timber can be magnets for smaller bands of elk. I look for a small meadow with good grass, on a ridge/side ridge with a steep north or east facing slope close by. Bulls love to bed on the north side and pop up over the ridge to eat right at dark. You likely won't see a lot of elk but the odds of seeing a bull are better.

Good luck but be careful - elk hunting is addicting

PM sent.

Nope, that restriction is NOT statewide. The front range units allow spikes, as well as many other areas. There are over 30 GMU's that have no antler restrictions.

Hmmm... That's odd. I don't know if I agree with taking spikes. That's almost like shooting a fawn! I mean, I am one who hunts purely for the meat in the freezer, but a spike??!! Don't know if I would do that or not.

No raptortrapper, it is NOT like shooting a fawn; a spike bull is 1 1/2 yrs. old. I don't know how this is any different than shooting a spike deer or even a fork horn buck (for a muley a fork horn is 1 1/2 yrs. old); it is a year and a half old bull and part of the big picture in the game management plan.

I have definitely killed many more mature bulls and raghorns than spike bulls, and I can assure you that the spike bulls taste better than those big old tough trophy bulls.

raptortrapper, just curious: how many years have you hunted Colorado?

Okay, I'll bite... I've been hunting in Colorado since 1997. Now go ahead and let me know how many more years you've been hunting here.

I couldn't tell ya how a trophy class bull tastes as I've never killed one. I always take the first legal critter that crosses my path, and to date, the largest elk has been a far cry from a trophy if we're only concerned about what he scored. In the unit where our property is, and all the other units that I've hunted, the 4 point restriction applies. Like I said in my previous post, "PERHAPS" it only applies to certain units, and from what you are saying, there are in fact units that don't have that restriction. So for those hunters in those units that take spikes, no harm no foul, and congrats to them on filling their tag! They did more than I did this year! If spikes were legal where I hunt, I still don't know if I could do that or not. Never been in that situation before, so I can't honestly answer that.

Same with a spike deer though- I don't think I'd shoot those either. Maybe if it was the last day of season, I probably would so I'd have something for the freezer. But I'm just saying it wouldn't be my first choice. Its a hard question for me to answer cause I've never been in that situation. Our property has plenty of deer, so passing on spikes is no big deal. We don't have anything that would classify as "huge" either cause our land sits right next to public land, and everything gets shot before it has a chance to mature. But there are plenty of them, and have been for many years -- another reason they don't get "huge". But I'm fine with that as I am not a trophy hunter.

Take it easy there, RT, take a deep breath and relax!

See for yourself, pg. 28 of the regs:

"There are no antler-point
restrictions for any season in GMUs: 1, 2, 10, 20,
29, 39, 40, 46, 48, 49, 50, 51, 56, 57, 58, 61, 69, 76,
84, 201, 391, 461, 481, 500, 501, 561, 591, 682, 791,
or units east of I-25 (except unit 140). Antlers must
meet the minimum length of 5 inches long."

Here is the link:

http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteCollectionDocuments/DOW/RulesRegs/Brochure/BigGame/biggame.pdf

I respect a hunter's decision on whether or not they want to shoot the "younger animals," that is a personal thing. I also expect the same respect from others should I choose to hunt a "Trophy Animal." I know some look down on a trophy hunter, but the reality of it is we still eat the meat, and holding out for a big mature animal makes the hunt a lot more challenging.

I don't plan to shoot a spike bull but can see the point in allowing the harvest of some spikes. Especially if trying to maintain the correst bull/cow ratio. I have been reading alot and didn't know Colorado even had moose. I allways thought that was mainly the far northern states. I was planning to apply to more than one state this year but there is so much info to sort through just reading the draw stats and harvest stats for each season in just Colorado. It's amazing to me how one unit will have a 30 or higher success rate on the first hunt and drop to 10 by the third. Similarly a lower elevation unit may have around 10 percent success on the first two seasons and jump to 40 for the third season but back down for the late season. Then others will be between 10 and 20 percent pretty steady across all seasons. I may just try to draw an either sex tag and take the first legal elk I can find. If I am lucky enough to find any. I really wanted to go first or second season so I could basically use the same camping and hunting wear I do here in Georgia. I mean south Ga, I still used my thermacell after christmas because it was warm enough to be bugged by mosquitos.

Elk migrate constantly within certain parameters and a lot of those stats have to do with weather as well as hunting pressure and the rut; all affecting elk movement.

Your statement: "I may just try to draw an either sex tag and take the first legal elk I can find" may be a very good idea depending on how familiar you are with your area and what is going on at the time.

As Gregg pointed out, a very lot has to do with migration. And that in and of itself can be complicated, as it is not just natural factors like weather. If you have a unit with large ranches that posted and/or not hunted, the elk are smart enough to know that. I have seen massive herds of elk on posted ranches during the archery season and height of the rut where they should be covering large tracts of public land. Nope. Even the really big bulls with herds have figured out it is "easier" to stay put in safe spots, and deal with the competition from other bulls.

More resaons why scouting is so critical. Toss in the possibility that the unit/area you picked got tagged for logging, or massive road work, or even opened for firewood cutting, and the need to remain felexible can be very critical. Also why settling on a size of mimimum take can be easy while sitting in your easy chair, contemplating the hunt. Mix in a big snow storm, as as Gregg noted "what is going on at the time" can encompass a great deal of intangibles.

Back before I lived in Colorado and hunted from home, I did a few road trips out. I figured out the way to have a really good trip was to include the planning, preparation and even the drive out as part of the whole package of the experience and enjoyment.

Craig

That altitude thing ain't no joke.

Ok so I drew a first season tag in unit 54. I am trying to get everything together for my hunt since it is sneaking up on me pretty quick. do i need insect repellent at the higher elevations in mid October ? Haven't got to make a scouting trip this summer but have studied maps and kind of have a game plan of where I plan on waking up opening morning. All that may be out the window before I even get started. I hunt enough public land here to know the landscape can change a lot opening morning even when you scouted just afew days before. Orange vest can dot the landscape like pepperoni on a pizza.

Eric,

I am not completely familiar with unit 54, but it is close to a lot of good real estate. No reason to think it will not be decent. A good rule of thumb would be to pack the insect repellant in the same location that you pack your tire snow chains. You could end up needing either. First season is not quite so bad, but depending upon how high you go, snow is always possible.

It sounds like you have the correct mental state. Yup, your not going to know how good or bad the pressure will be until you get there. The horse hunters will tend to stay away from the crowded areas, but the ATV riders will be everywhere that they can be. The good news is that Colorado tends to be hard on folks who think they can cut new ATV trails. If your not using one yourself, think elk, think roads fewer and father between. And if you can find access that does not have a major campground nearby, it will be easier to get sleep v. listening to the all night poker games....

Craig

I plan to hunt the west elk wilderness . Shouldn't be any atvs but that doesn't mean there won't be. Planning on doing a bivy style hunt so anything packed with the snow chains will be out of reach. Guess I will just take a small bottle of the 100 percent stuff and hope I don't need it.

Weeellll,

If your gonna hump into the wilderness area with just the goodies on your back you will not have any issues with ATV's, and likely any horse pack strings will be deeper in. If you can find any elk benches or hidey holes that are off the main trail in, you should be in good shape. You lose a lot of the hunters who will be staying at the trail head, as to catch the elk early or late means a long walk for them in the dark, on both ends. That tends to thin the herd some.

I'd skip the tire chains and skeeter juice, and make sure to have your two way radio that does the local weather feeds. Most if the outdoor radios you buy these days have the weather feature. I do not get too worried about weather by and large, but it nice to not be caught with the britches down, so to speak.

Craig

do not under estimate the weather. early october is unpredictable. most years it is mild. but a blizzard is not out of the question.

one year opening day it was hot, short sleeve shirts type hot, but the first snow flakes were falling by 4pm by 5:30 a blizzard was raging. it blew hard through the next day and dumped a couple feet of snow.

I have never carried insect spray for 1st season but I am always prepared for the weather.

anything to report, How did your hunt go?

Well I learned just a little bit about elk hunting and a whole bunch about how nasty the mild fall weather can be at 12000 foot.
I had problems with the rental car company at the airport in Denver so I didn't get to the trail head until dark. I decided to wait until Saturday morning to start in on the trail. I had a lead on a good size herd of elk that were 8 miles from the trailhead. My plan was to head up the trail a few miles try to find decent elk sign hunt the area and move in deeper if needed up to that 8 mile point.
It snowed one week before my arrival so anything that crossed the trail left a very visible track. This was my first trip to the area and the first thing I noticed up the first few miles on the trail was there were no north or south facing slopes but only cliffs. In the first six miles of trail I had only crossed three elk tracks. They were small tracks and possibly the same elk. SO I went ahead and made it the rest of the way in to the place I had hoped to not have to go. There was fresh sign everywhere. I finally had some grassy slopes. Did I mention the altitude kicked my but and it took me 11 hours to make it those eight miles in. I also gained about 3500 foot in elevation. There was no way I could make it above the elk to get the wind right so I backed out a half mile and made camp. Didn't build a fire that night because I didn't want to spook the elk.
I awoke the next morning later than expected but it wasn't quite daylight yet. I got to experience for the first time the joy of trying to get my foot in a boot that had frozen overnight. I finally got going and it was light by the time I got a couple hundred yards from camp. I looked out across the creek to see this

After a little glassing and thinking It dawned on me that the herd of elk had left. I could visually see their tracks go a mile east and up and over the hill. I decided to go ahead and move up hill and glass some. I watched several slopes and could watch the mountain the elk left on from the same spot. I decided to stay put and watch everything I could from where I was to see if any elk were left or if any came back. As day two came to an end the only animal I had seen since setting up camp was a ptarmigan. I went ahead and built a good fire and dried everything out. It had started snowing just before dark so I retired to my tent to study maps for a couple hours and decide whether to go over the ridge where the elk went or head back to the trailhead. Either one would take most of the day.
I went to bed with six inches of hard packed week old snow and woke up the next morning with a foot of fluffy stuff on top of the six inches that were already there. It was still snowing hard so I just hung out in the tent and ate a good breakfast and made some coffee. I couldn't pick up anything on the weather radio. At 8am it was still going pretty good so I knew the only way to go was back to the trail head but couldn't get any weather info. I had food to stay a while but didn't want to stay there and eventually get enough snow to make it difficult to get out. I also didn't want to be stuck in it if visibility got too bad. I tried to call the forest service office to see if they could give me a weather update but got a voicemail saying they had been furlowed. So I packed everything up but in reverse order so my tent and sleeping bag were on top in case I had to setup camp quick. It I finally started back down toward the trail head about 10. I made it down about 4 and it hadn't even snowed there.
Tuesday morning I was headed to my plan b spot. I took a wrong turn and realized it about daylight. My topo map and the trails there didn't exactly match up. It snowed lightly Monday night and I crossed a few fresh tracks and decided to follow them. Wow elk like steep. I saw several places where it looked like a calf would be walking up a gentle slope and the cow would call the calf over to her to take the steep way up to the same place the gentle slope led. Well after about four hours of up down slide fall I heard an awful scraping noise. I knew it was either a bull rubbing a tree or a bear trying to claw something out of a log. I stalked in to about 60 yards before I could see it was an elk. I couldn't tell anything about the bull so I got closer. I was then sitting against a tree, handgun rested on shooting sticks switching back an forth from the handgun scope to my binoculars trying to see if he was legal and how big he was. I had a clear view of everything from his neck back. Finally I could tell he was a small 4x4. Legal but small. There was a lot of fresh sign in the area. I decided to pass on the bull. I watched him for a few more minutes with the thought that I would probably regret letting bull walk about that time I felt the wind that was blowing in my face switch to only touching my right cheek. A few seconds later he was gone. I interrupted him doing some pretty good work.

I decided to spend the evening checking out my plan b spot and decided which area I wanted to spend the last day hunting. I decided to go back to the area I saw the small bull in the next morning. It started raining and about 2am I was informed the creek was flooding the forest service road about two mile down the mountain. We all moved our vehicles. I listened to the weather and the forecast called for continued rain until after lunch on Wednesday. I decided to go ahead and fly home. That's a pretty long story for an unsuccessful hunt. I'll go back again. I don't regret passing on the small bull. I do regret spending two days hiking in and out of an area.