I've read of a few folks using this bullet in the Linebaugh/Ruger but can't seem to locate the posts via the search engine.

The Speer Deep Curl, both 325 and 400, shoot very well in my BFR - 2" groups or less at 25 yards. They shoot better than the 420 Hard cast I've been loading. I get 3" groups with the 420's and 2" groups with the 325/400.

The meplat of the 420's is bigger but I've seen pictures of expanded Deep Curls and they don't appear to expand all that much but retain their weight.

What is the collective experience with these bullets on elk/moose?

I have no personal experience with the .475 Deepcurls, but I know the .44 need to be pushed to upper end velocitys for them to work as designed, they are a tough bullet, bottom line.

What 420's are you shooting? Have you tried to increase your charge to decrease dispersion?

Ah yes, experience.....Lets look in my files for the Speer .475/400gr JFP...searching....found it. Used this bullet on some large boar and found little evidence of expansion as compared to the same weight/caliber XTP. No bullet recovery, however, found them very accurate in both my FA`s 475 and Gallagher 475 custom Bisley. Shot my elk/moose with 454 so no experience in that department, but maybe some of the handgun hunters here have done so. If I had either of my 475 revolvers loaded with the 400gr Speer I feel I was well prepared for elk/moose. Good hunting....

I've shot a lot of groundhogs and deer with the 325 and 400 gr. Speer Gold Dots(pre Deep Curl). They act like FMJs with no expansion, no matter the angle of shot. They give less Tissue effect(shock damage) than casts due to the smaller meplats. I did a water buffalo and rhino with Cast Performance SWCs that did very well. All of these bullets as well as Hornady XTPs shoot great in my FA .475, but they all act like FMJs, no expansion.

I've shot a lot of groundhogs and deer with the 325 and 400 gr. Speer Gold Dots(pre Deep Curl). They act like FMJs with no expansion, no matter the angle of shot. They give less Tissue effect(shock damage) than casts due to the smaller meplats. I did a water buffalo and rhino with Cast Performance SWCs that did very well. All of these bullets as well as Hornady XTPs shoot great in my FA .475, but they all act like FMJs, no expansion.

This is odd. I've done a lot of testing of Gold Dots of smaller calibers (primarily 9mm but also .32acp, .38spl and .45acp) in wet newsprint and they expand beautifully. I've dispatched a bunch of rabbits with a .38spl Gold Dot load and they expanded as well, though probably primarily in the backstop of dry newsprint that I used for that purpose (rabbits were tame).

I fail to understand why Gold Dots/Deep Curls would not expand in larger calibers.

I'll try to scan some photos of the hogs I shot in Florida years ago with .480 325 grain Gold Dots. Had picture perfect performance on a 300-lb boar on one day and the day before I failed to get an exit on a 50-lb hog. I don't like inconsistency.

I wouldn't expect a 325 or 400 gr soft point to expand on deer or groundhogs. I shot a 6-6 1/2 ft black bear with the 325's and one of the shots center punched the spine. I recovered the bullet and it expanded quite dramatically. Based on that experience, I think the 325 is a great bullet for stuff up to 1000 lbs but a little light for something really heavily built like bison or buffalo. I would choose the 400's for those critters. The deep curls will expand if you hit bone. They are bonded and will not come apart like the XTPs.

Where did you hit the 50lb pig?

Shoulder. He was tiny. I'll post up a photo of the two from that weekend. The bullet worked as advertised on the big one. I don't know if they are any better now, but I imagine they are. This was at least ten years ago.

I have found that some of the Gold Dots expand well and some don't. The 45 ACP 230 grain expand a lot but the 158 grain in the 357 mag doesn't








I have also found that the 210 grain Gold Dot for the 41 mag expands nicely

large caliber XTPs and Gold Dots/Deep Curls are obviously made tougher (thicker jackets) than small caliber ones. The animals I've shot with them are thin skinned, thin bodied and offer little resistance to these tougher bullets. That's why they don't expand, BUT the XTPs actually do cause a little more tissue damage in these smaller animals due to the tissue shock created by the hollow point. I'm sure you'll get some expansion on large bones in larger animals. The large animals I took with my .475 didn't need expansion to kill them. They needed penetration, so that's why I used the heavy casts. I'm going to try to kill a large animal or two this year with lighter bullets, but I still favor penetration over expansion. I'll be using some old 335 gr. cast BRPs, no longer made, but one fantastic cast bullet. I misspoke before. I did use this bullet in 400 gr. on my buff instead of the Cast Performance. One went all the way through both shoulders. One was under the off side. The first shot killed it, but I did #2 to make my guide happy.
I just shot the BRPs, XTPs, and Gold Dots yesterday. Interestingly, in my FA, the casts and XTPs shoot the same to 100, but the Gold/Deeps shoot 2" higher and 2" to the right of the others. All grouped good, but not quite interchangable.

Not all of the smaller Gold Dots expand well Dr. as you can see the 158 grain Gold Dot fired from a 357 mag didn't expand at all

Doc,

Did you use the 400 gr gold dot or the 400 xtp on the buff. We're talking bison, yes?

The Deep Curl is an improved version of the old Gold Dot with a heavier jacket and bonded core so they are supposed to do better.

Gary, I used the 400 gr. BRP cast. Have not use XTP or Gold Dots on big stuff yet. Hopefully will this year, but 325 XTP. Need some shock damage as well as moderate penetration on something big if I get close enough. If not, then 185 TSX in .325 WSM. The buff was a very large water buffalo, a good bit larger than my Cape buff.

I remember from several old sixgunner articles that 500WE - Ken O'neil has taken a few Bison & Water Buff using the gold dots & xtp's.

Here is the 325gr that I recovered under the hide on a black bear. The bullet center punched the spine. When I say they won't come apart this is pretty good evidence. The lead is still bonded to the jacket and the bullet is destroyed, it retained 83% of it's weight though but obviously not going to penetrate much farther. A spine will soak up more bullet than any other bone in the animal but if you hit the spine the animal will certainly drop at the shot. This is also why I think the 325 is too light for really big stuff like buffalo. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a black bear again with it though.

And it measured 1.4" across.