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Hardcast curiosity #131911 05/01/2013 12:25 PM
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Boot Offline OP
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Specifically concerning available ammo for the 44mag, I'd like some input on hardcast . Never hunted with hardcast, but bought some HSM bear ammo to try. Accuracy was pleasantly surprising, but they sure are nasty shooting. After 40 rds, it looked like my Ruger was blued instead of stainless. I've read enough to warrant giving hardcast a try this deer season, and have a couple questions for you guys who use them regularly.
#1, What is the widest metplat available for a 44 mag?
#2, What would be optimum velocity for wfngc in 44mag?
#3, Is it correct that gc bullets reduce leading by a certain degree?
#4, What brinnel hardness is acceptable for a cast bullet to be considered "hardcast "?
#5, Any factory loaded ammo suggestions that have given good overall accuracy, and performance on game?
Thanks in advance guys, and God bless.

Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: Boot] #131912 05/01/2013 12:42 PM
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Whitworth Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Boot
Specifically concerning available ammo for the 44mag, I'd like some input on hardcast . Never hunted with hardcast, but bought some HSM bear ammo to try. Accuracy was pleasantly surprising, but they sure are nasty shooting. After 40 rds, it looked like my Ruger was blued instead of stainless. I've read enough to warrant giving hardcast a try this deer season, and have a couple questions for you guys who use them regularly.
#1, What is the widest metplat available for a 44 mag?
#2, What would be optimum velocity for wfngc in 44mag?
#3, Is it correct that gc bullets reduce leading by a certain degree?
#4, What brinnel hardness is acceptable for a cast bullet to be considered "hardcast "?
#5, Any factory loaded ammo suggestions that have given good overall accuracy, and performance on game?
Thanks in advance guys, and God bless.


A true WFN (roughly 81% meplat) is as big as I would go in any case. This will still return good accuracy. I like to keep cast bullets under 1,400 fps impact velocity. When you deform the nose by driving them too fast, they stop doing well what they are designed to do. Not sure why you are getting your revolver dirty, but I never have any leading issues in any of mine. I like a bullet that is in the 20 to 22 BHN range. When they get much harder, they get brittle and that is no good if bone is in the flight path. All cast bullet designs are not created equally. The LBTs are my favorite, but there are many copies that are not even in the same zipcode as far as design quality is concerned. Beware.

Good loaded cast ammo? My favorite are the offerings from Grizzly Cartridge -- outstanding accuracy, the highest quality, and great bullet designs. Another load I really like is the 320 grain WFN from Double Tap -- it's a killin' machine that I have used on a number of wild hogs. Buffalo Bore alos makes some great cast loads.


Max Prasac

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BIG IRON: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6aXjMH5C30

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s

Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: Whitworth] #131914 05/01/2013 1:43 PM
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+1 on the Double Tap 320gr WFN
Good accuracy as well. I have taken several hogs with them. That being said, I have yet to recover a single bullet, even after passing through both shoulders.
Be forewarned, if you are used to shooting more moderate 240gr loads, the DT 320's are a real step up in power and are running right at the top end of what a 44mag is capable of.

Regarding your comment about the loads being dirty, that is more of a function of the particular powder being used than the lead bullet itself. For my top end .44mag loads I pretty much run nothing but H-110/W296. It gives a clean burn and fine accuracy out past the point where I can aim effectively. I have shot some factory stuff in the past that was dirty like you describe. Also significantly downloaded rounds may allow for incomplete/inefficient powder burning and cause very sooty rounds (Unique gets like this on downloaded rounds...so does Red Dot).

If you are going to run top end 44mag cast loads, your best bet is to get into reloading. There are many...many variables that effect cast bullet accuracy that are available to the handloader that are not open to someone buying factory loaded bullets. Probably most important is the bullet size. Many commercial cast bullets are sized .430", which in my experience are always undersized for Ruger barrels. All of my Rugers sling cast bullets sized .432" much more accurately, with less leading.

Another reason to reload is that top end cast loads are expen$ive. Reloading will allow you to keep the costs to a reasonable level.

Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: 98Redline] #131917 05/01/2013 2:56 PM
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The "nasty" was powder fouling, not leading. Will the 320 doubletap wfn fit in a Super Blackhawk cyl? I know garret has some heavier ammo but it only fits redhawk cylinders, due to length issue. But the price of garrett ammo is somewhat prohibitive to afford any pre-season practice.

Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: Boot] #131940 05/02/2013 3:11 AM
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Black stuff is a combination of powder and lube off of the bullet. Gas checks are better on the high end loads. I shoot 30/1 lead tin alloy in my 44 without any problems, but I am looking for a little expansion on smaller critters and for the larger ones I have a little different alloy and bullet design.

Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: rlb] #131942 05/02/2013 3:28 AM
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I can say the Oregon Trail Trueshots are the hardest bullets I've found but the alloy is such that they aren't too brittle. The have a bhn of 24 but the issue with them is compared to companies like CP and Beartooth their selection is very limited.


I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. John Wayne-The Shootist


Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: Boot] #131957 05/02/2013 6:08 PM
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The DT 320 WFN fits just fine in a Super Blackhawk.

Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: 98Redline] #131990 05/04/2013 12:25 AM
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I'd refer to some of skeeter skelton's writings on gas checks he was a huge fan of them. Elmer Keith preached against them, John Taffin has some good info on Gas Checks and hardness of cast bullets @ sixguns.com. If I was going to get any factory stuff it would have to be corbon or buffalo bore. Gas checks are needed mainly when using magnums but are also necessary for none magnums when trying to push them somewhere over 1100fps.

Last edited by Ironsights; 05/04/2013 12:26 AM.

Darlin it all depends which part of the country your from as to how stupid your are - The Bandit
Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: Ironsights] #132135 05/07/2013 1:19 AM
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hms is junk ammo dirty, erratic, and assorted brass. or use to be. kind of like firecrackers, not good for anything but making noise. and those are the good points.


Everything before "but" is B.S.
Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: bluecow] #132136 05/07/2013 1:48 AM
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 Originally Posted By: bluecow
hms is junk ammo dirty, erratic, and assorted brass. or use to be. kind of like firecrackers, not good for anything but making noise. and those are the good points.

This batch is the first time I've tried any HSM ammo, or any cast bullets. Yes, they are pretty nasty, but all rounds were loaded in starline cases, and were fairly accurate. I dont have a chrono, to determine consistency, but they all hit the same place at 25 yds. I'm going to order some cast to load myself soon. Trying to decide what size to order. As best as I can tell, the throats on my Ruger are .432, and the barrel is .429. Does that sound odd for the throats to be .003 larger than the bore?

Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: Boot] #132144 05/07/2013 6:04 AM
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That's normal, as long as the throats are all equal you'll probably be fine. If you haven't slugged the bore I would do that and then go .001" over the bore size on your bullets. Your throats aren't tight if they are truly .432 so you shouldn't have a problem with tight throats.


I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. John Wayne-The Shootist


Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: wapitirod] #132146 05/07/2013 1:53 PM
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 Originally Posted By: wapitirod
slugged the bore

What is that??


A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!

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Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: Raptortrapper] #132148 05/07/2013 2:21 PM
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You essentially hammer a soft lead slug through the barrel (muzzle to forcing cone) then measure with a micrometer. This will give you the diameter of both the grooves and lands.

Doing the same thing with the cylinder (starting from the back and pushing the slug up through the cylinder throat) will give you the throat diameter.

The best thing to use is a lead egg sinker slightly over bore size. Pound it through with an aluminum or brass rod (DO NOT USE A WOODEN DOWEL!).

Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: 98Redline] #132150 05/07/2013 3:32 PM
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Ironsights Offline
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You could visit http://www.gunblast.com/FerminGarza-Firelapping.htm this guy explains the process pretty well. Alphaprecision.com has a couple of words to say about proper tolerances and how to get the best accuracy from your revolver as well.


Darlin it all depends which part of the country your from as to how stupid your are - The Bandit
Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: Ironsights] #132153 05/07/2013 4:50 PM
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Who does everyone use for bullets, that dont cast their own? I've tried for a couple days and cant get hold of anybody at beartooth, Montana bullet works is having problems and not taking orders, and I cant get Grizzly to answer the phone to order some cast performance bullets. Forces are conspiring against my effort to develop a cast load for deer season this year!!

Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: Boot] #132154 05/07/2013 5:00 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Boot
Who does everyone use for bullets, that dont cast their own? I've tried for a couple days and cant get hold of anybody at beartooth, Montana bullet works is having problems and not taking orders, and I cant get Grizzly to answer the phone to order some cast performance bullets. Forces are conspiring against my effort to develop a cast load for deer season this year!!


They answer the phone -- just keep calling. Folks are panicking and the manufacturers are swamped. I like Cast Performance, Beartooth, and Double Tap. They all make quality cast bullets.


Max Prasac

Semper Fidelis

BIG IRON: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6aXjMH5C30

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s

Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: Whitworth] #132155 05/07/2013 5:11 PM
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I ordered the cast performance for my 500JRH online. Tried to call and couldn't get anyone either, so just did it online. Don't know which will get here first, the bullets or the gun though!!! :-)

Last edited by raptortrapper; 05/07/2013 5:12 PM.

A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!

Lifetime Member of the NRA! Wish I'd a done it sooner.
Re: Hardcast curiosity [Re: Raptortrapper] #132162 05/07/2013 10:24 PM
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I use Cast Performance, and Oregon Trail mostly although I have some Penn and Beartooth bullets I like too. My favorite are the Oregon Trail Trueshots but they have a limited selection compared to the others.


I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. John Wayne-The Shootist



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