What is the difference between punch bullets and hardcast bullets? Seems like they both do the same thing, or else I'm missing something.

The Punch bullet is made of brass with a lead core (more of an insert), that will not distort even when making contact with very hard media at a high velocity. I have referred to them as glorified hardcast bullets -- same concept as a flat-nosed hardcast but one that is not velocity limited.

The bullets in this photo are Punch bullets.

There's BULLETS in that picture??!!!

Thanks for the explanation. I thought they were just made for Africa type rifle calibers / dangerous game. Not saying ya can't take dangerous game with a handgun. Just didn't know punch bullets were made for handguns also.

I would assume they are probably more expensive than hardcast.

Considerably more expensive!

Since hardcast does such a good job, why would you use punch bullets? Just curious.

Some of us have an aversion to naked boolits ;-)

Because they are inpervious to hard surfaces and velocity. They uncompromisingly penetrate as the nose never degrades. When you have $30,000.00 trophy fee on the line, it pays not to be cheap when it comes to bullet cost.

I will never have a 30k hunt in my lifetime, but when I have a single tag for the year per species I have zero issues with ultra premium bullets. I am running Barnes Busters in my 45-70 GG, and we had a special run of Barnes banded Solids made that I like in my 458 Socom. I think the 335 .458 is now a catalog item for Barnes.

I would be in hog heaven if one of the makers would produce a version that was a tad lighter in .451/.452. I understand the extra weight per caliber is an advantage for the design, but I would still think a 270-300 grain weight class would still penetrate like crazy.

One other reason I like the jacketed/"solid" variation over lead is the lack of smoke at the shot from the lead/lube. I like to see the critter's immediate reaction to my shot.

Craig

i used the busters in africa and they worked like a charm.
the busters worked awesome, have a meplat designed for deep penetration and straight tracking and they don't distort at high velocities. they're about a buck a piece, significantly cheaper than the punch bullets. a bit more than quality hardcasts but worth it on a dangerous and very very expensive animal.

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!! I'll never have that on the line. At least not while I'm married!!

Raptor,

You have to keep in mind that Whit probably gets hit with excessive fees. His 1/2" bores driven to his favorite speeds probably net him 2 or 3 animals per shot. Adds up kinda fast that way ;^)

Trad, thanks for the report. Hopefully the Busters will be easier to find in the New Year. Might as well try some of the heavier 451's. I end up settling on Barnes Bullets for every other gun that get pointed at critters, might save myself some aggravation.

Craig

Yeah, I heard he once told a Professional Hunter and a group of trackers, "Hey ya'll, watch this! I'm gonna take TWO elephants, end for end, with one shot!" Turns out he did, and also took the cape buffalo standing behind the second elephant!!

Get out the shovels boys it's getting DEEP quick!!!!!!!!!!

I've already got my hip-waders on!

Whit....your reputation precedes you.

Not exactly undeserved, I might add.

not sure hip waders are gonna cut it. haha

It's all his fault, for not believing.

Whit, click your heels together three times while saying:

"there's nothing like a good energy dump, there's nothing like a good energy dump, there's nothing like a good energy dump"

The good witch Gary will appear and help you find your way down the jacketed path, home.

Craig

Them's fightin' words!!!

Not fightin' words, merely a fairytale!

Yep its done to deep for hip waders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol. Y'all are something else, you know that?

This place is always good for information, laughs, and life's problems. Its like therapy for the soul just being on this site.

For those of you who have not read Whit's "old" book, he devotes a lot of pages to lead, and he had Gary write quite a few pages on jacketed, as a counter-point. If you find yourself someday bunking with them on a hunt, might not want to bring up the subject ;^)

Back sort of on point, is there a style or construction of bullet that a hunter cannot find out there these days (other than the demand/shortage)? Lead, jacketed, softpoints, monoliths, plated just to name a few. It's no wonder the conversation comes up a lot on the forums.

Craig

I just got Whit's book. Great read from a guy that don't read alot. Don't ruin the ending for me.

l traded some ammo over the weekend with a guy who had some Corbon Penetrator 44s.. 305gr PUNCH bullets in those Corbons..He had them for his 5'' 44mag Redhawk...Meanest bullet l have EVER seen

punch bullets are milled bronze and brass,lead is used in the rear for weight only.even a 5000.00 hunt deserves the best bullets,thats the cheapest part of the hunt.not to mention saving your life with a sure thing.

I agree completely.

I hear what your saying, but to me, its the clean kill that matters. And I'm sure its the same to most, if not all of you. We've all said it, "There's no degree of dead". So why does the price of the hunt matter on how good we want the bullet to perform?

I'm not trying to pick a fight on this, just trying to understand. Is it because a hard cast bullet isn't sufficient for African / dangerous game? I could understand if that was the case.

It's just insurance, raptortrapper. Why leave things to chance when you have a lot on the line?

Yeah, I can understand that with dangerous game. Is that the only time punch bullets are used in Africa? Do they use them on Kudu and other game like that, or is it reserved for the dangerous stuff?

I wasn't meaning I don't agree in using punch bullets, just trying to understand the full purpose of them. When are they chosen over hardcast. Stuff like that. But yeah, I understand a bit better now.

Thanks!

They are essentially glorified flat-nosed hardcast bullets. They kill the same way. I would use them the same as I use hardcast bullets -- pretty much on everything.

But without the mess and smoke.

Raptor,

If you do enough digging on the net about hardcast and hunting, you will some posts made where the "premium" lead bullet failed for someone. It is generally a situation where the lead was perceived to be too brittle. Usually some issue with the nose either deforming or some type of shatter. Not all lead is created equal, nor used appropriately. It must be strong, and hard, but not too much so.

Lead can also change a little, if improperly stored, and with age. I have my plinking lead, plated plinking lead, premium lead, and super premium "lead like", like the Busters or turned bullets.

Craig

Thanks Craig! I didn't know lead would change with age or improper storage! What is the proper storage? I just leave them in the box they came in from Cast Performance!

I have learned about the shattering, or being to brittle like you mentioned. That's one reason I don't like the idea of making my own hard cast stuff. I found the stuff from Cast Performance, and will just stay with them. I got stocked up on the bullets I use from them in my 500JRH and 45 Colt cause they shoot so well. If I could make that exact bullet myself, I might be interested in learning how to do it. But for right now, I don't think I want to mess with it. Learning to reload by myself was a little scary. I had you guys to kind of help me along, but setting up the press, and making my first loads was scary without someone there to make sure I was doing it right.

I am interested in these punch bullets, or these "lead like" bullets you mentioned. Gonna have to find some of those just to see the difference.

What mess would that be? Leading? I virtually NEVER have issues with leading. The smoke from the lube may bother some, but still easier to contend with than black powder -- Haha!

All that has to do with naked boolits.

Bullets wearing jackets must be insecure. I like a bullet confident enough to remain naked.

"Boolits," huh?

I don't get it either ;-)

Has anyone tried these cast slugs with the high tech coating on them? That kind of piques my interest. The good without the bad?

Raptor,

I do not get anal with lead storage, more like powder. Keep them out of direct sunlight, and do not store them in the shed out back that will see minus 15 a few times a year.

I like Cast Performance for their track record. They have also been (and perhaps still are) loaded by some of the big name makers in their premium ammo. I am fiddling with Rim Rock bullets, as these are the maker loaded by Buffalo Bore in some of their ammo. Not to say there are not other great lead bullets, but if you pick a maker that has everything to lose with a big Cartridge maker, it beats trying to scour the web looking for third hand reports of success and failure.

And Whit, we are talking lead. I think the term is nekkid, said spitting out a big wad of chew spit........

Naked bullet, or nekkid boolit spat dribble wipe

Craig