Ok Gents I hope this will help us all come to a conclusion based on fact rather that opinion about the burn out of forcing cones and barrels by using Lil Gun Powder. I spoke to John at Freedom Arms today about this and he verified the information below as coming from Bob Baker President of FA. The thread was taken off of the S&W Forum.
Re: The Truth About Lil' Gun...
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 04:45:06 PM »
"We have seen numerous barrels damaged by using Lil Gun. According to customers, some had as few as 30 rounds using Lil Gun through them, some had several hundred. Before we figured out what was happening one customer had sent his gun in for a new barrel. Then 600 rounds later it came back for another new barrel.

A couple years ago we did a test with a M83, .357 Mag. using Hornady 180 gr. bullets. We loaded 50 rds. of three different loads. One was a heavy H-110 load and the other two both used Lil Gun in different quantities.

We fired the H-110 loads first, then cut off the threaded end of the barrel. Rethreaded the barrel and shot one of the Lil Gun loads then rethreaded the barrel and shot the last Lil Gun load.

We found even the light load of Lil Gun caused the gun to get extremely hot. The heavy Lil Gun load had the gun so hot the only place we could touch the gun was on the grips and they were very hot.

Under magnification the surface appeared to have heated to a point of flowing using the Lil Gun loads and the heavy load was worse than the light load. This is probably due to Lil Gun having about 10% more nitro glycerin in it than H-110.
Yes it applies to the .475 also. I intentionally ran the tests with a cartridge that is less pressure than the 454 just to make sure.

I have also heard of problems with rifles but I haven't tried to verify it by running my own tests."

I have about 50 rds of .475 loaded with Lil Gun that I WILL NOT shoot because of this. Let us remember that Lil Gun is a good powder for what it was developed for, 410 loads.

That's interesting. I have NEVER noticed any abnormal heat in my SRH using 20gr of Lil Gun behind 420 cast.

I never noticed any heat either and I really liked the results that I got with Lil Gun, but I really like my Freedom Arms revolvers and if I'm going to spend big bucks it will be to buy another FA and not for a having to replace a barrel.
Now remember this is what FA has experienced as a result of testing and customer's guns. It may not be a problem in stock Rugers or other makes but this is only speculation as I'm not going to experiment with my Rugers.

Interesting, to say the least. Makes me glad I went with H110 when I started reloading.

Although I find the information somewhat interesting until I see the parameters of the "test" I'm not sure I would consider it the "Gospel". I would like to hear the rate of fire for one thing, also the charge weight of the loads. I remember JD Jones telling me one time that in some of his durability tests he would fire the gun until it got so hot he would dunk it into a bucket of diesel fuel to cool it and start back firing it. He said the gun would produce steam when immersed. Don't take me wrong, I'm not promoting the use of LIL GUN I just want to know all the particulars. I seriously doubt the rate of fire in a hunting situation would heat the gun to unacceptable levels. Whenever I see something promoted as the "absolute" without all the information I get skeptical. From what is posted above it just raises more questions than answers for me.

I have run enough of it to feel confident in our guns. I have never noticed any gun overheating with it. I too have more questions than answers. reflex264

l use 'lil gun' for my Mod 27-2 in 357mag for IHMSA using 140 gr FTX Hornadys.. l noticed last year it got hotter than my H110 or 2400 loads. l will have to ck the forcing cone

If there is any question why take a chance?

Because I have a load that nothing else can touch accuracy wise....to date.

You gatta take into consideration how much you shoot that load as well. I shoot heavy loads in my 45 Colt for hunting but when I am playing I swap cylinders and shoot ACP. I might run a hundred hot loads a year so wouldn't be too worried in my case. That said, the stories about lil gun is what started me with H110 and I never felt need to change.

An accurate load may get less accurate over time if the forcing cone gets chewed up.

Mike.44, I too had a really good load going for my FA .475, and my .45 Colt, but I would agree with Recoil, "why take a chance".
I have 50 rds loaded with Lil Gun remaining, I asked the Tec at FA what he thought about me shooting them off to retrieve the brass. He said, "if it were me I wouldn't take the chance" and neither am I. I hate to have to give up my favorite load but I also hate to ruin a fine revolver, and FA replacement barrels aren't cheap. Good luck.

I've experimented with Lil'Gun in a Puma 92. My research was far from extensive, but I can attest that though the load I developed was very accurate, it would heat up that rifle very quickly. Shoot six, change target, reload, shoot six, change target, reload, shoot six, change target, and the barrel was to hot to consider shooting anymore. At the time I attributed the heat to the thinness of the barrel. The gun didn't last me very long because it soon stopped chambering rounds. I wonder if the Lil'Gun had anything to do with that?

I have replied on this several times before....

Unless someone else had the same experiences as mine, the customer Bob Baker refers to in the first paragraph is me. I too was using Lil Gun because I had a very accurate load with this powder. Had no idea that the powder was the cause of the eroded forcing cone/barrel breech. My first conversations with Mr. Baker revolved around my choice of bullets. The second barrel I used nothing but the recommended bullets from FA and the barrel again needed replaced. That's when we started looking at powder.

I will say I now have loads that are just as accurate with 4227. Not as fast....but very accurate and effective.

It was mentioned that one probably would not shoot enough rounds hunting to ruin a barrel. Well probably true but I practice a LOT before I go after game.

Use it if you must, but I for one will not. I still have a couple pounds of it that is taking up space on my shelf.

Dan

Dan, thanks for jumping in and sharing your experience with Lil Gun. This subject keeps coming up every so often, maybe there should be a separate category under Shooters Bench revealing the challenges with Lil Gun. I hate for someone to miss this and end up ruining their barrel. I agree with you whole heartedly and have moved on to other powders. Thanks.

I have gone back to good old 296/h110. They are accurate as well. Why chance it.

I have a 15" MGM .357 Max barrel for my Encore that has over 600 rounds down the pipe using 180 gr. Hornady XTP's driven with Lil Gun, Still out shoots my skill level off the bench and shows no damage whats so ever, go figure?

Buck,

Not really, when you consider your gun does not have a barrel/cylinder gap nor forcing cone. The FC gives the load a 90 degree flat surface for the gas to hit, and perhaps mixing with the outside air might create a different dynamic. That and I suspect your shooting cadence might be a tad slower than a revolver ;^)

Craig