Didn't want to steal a thread so
When in bear country how close is too close? At what range are you justified in shooting? I am sure most states have limits,as do most people,so when are you justified? .In my encounter with the bull I knew with absolute clarity he was comeing and I was too close,his body language changed and I could feel it and see it.

I've had a Grizzly come out of the brush at approximately 10 yards while hunting. He stopped on the trail and we stared at each other a few seconds. Then, he took off down the trail in the opposite direction.

I assume we startled each other. I know he startled the crap out of me!!!

But, his posture was not aggressive and I felt no need to engage. Had he actually been coming at me through the brush and not out front to the trail............I doubt I'd even had time. Suckers move FAST for such big creatures!

I would 'poop' myself!

Inside 25 yards and watch close but have gun ready. If the bears head is down and coming straight I say shoot. If head is up and moving somewhat forward (roll hopping)Its up to you but I feel he probably won't attack on that charge but may change his mind as walking away. Bears attack with their teeth and try to bite passing by dragging you down.Remember bow hunters are often much less than 25 yards when hunting big bears.In Alaska don't shoot a bear at fifty yards and try to call it DLP

Great question, I asked the same one a couple of years ago on another forum and the answers ranged from "if he's coming at me I'm shooting" to "maybe it's a bluff charge". Since mind readers only exist on TV and at the circus there's no way anyone can determine if it's a "bluff charge", in my opinion anyway.
I'm not willing to risk is it "a bluff charge" or is it for real.
That's a question I don't think you can answer unless you are in the situation. Again, great question!

There is a really good article written by a man with experience in this area, Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore bullets. Its under tech articles, "Stopping Bears with Handgun or Rifle".
http://www.buffalobore.com

Another great article on stopping bears with a handgun can be found at http://www.garrettcartridges.com/defensive.html

Head shot is good but at around fifteen yards at full charge the head will turn sideways to grab you. Center in front of the hump is best at that time taking out the spine,think spine even when making head shot.Yes rifle or shotgun is better but if you are handgun hunting them in the first place you should understand killing bears.

Good point. A head shot on a moving bear at any range would be a difficult proposition, especially if he/she is coming at you full bore. Another good reason to know your quarry and the capabilities of your gun and load of choice. I think a lot of hunters enter the field misinformed about what they are hunting, and their gun/load.

Theres a fellow that shoots at the same range I do.........the tale of Doc Kelly, Doc retired .a few years ago, he decided he wanted to go to Alaska for bear and other game.Doc hired himself a guide and they hit the bush, they were doing the hunt out of a tent, 2 days into the hunt the guide glasses a good brown bear, they make a stalk and get to about 200 yards.Now at the shot , the bear ran into some sparse tag alders, Doc and the Guide waited a bit and worked their way up to the area where the bear was at the shot.Well, that big bear was not dead yet, and ended up charging, the guide was screaming for Doc to shoot, and finally he did, Doc hit the bear on a dead run, shot in the head, the bear crumbled 10 yards from Doc, the guide said to Doc, Iv"e been been a guide for 25 years and thats the best shot Iv"e ever seen, Doc replied, Iv"e been a Dentist for 30 years, and those are the biggest teeth Iv"e ever seen, True story, my buddy loaded the ammo for Doc on that hunt, a 300 Win Mag.

Very interesting articles about stopping bears. I have read that playing dead may save your life from a grizzly bear attack because , they want to stop what they feel is a threat, but a black bear will kill and eat you almost every time if attacked. That said I was glad to read that a heavy for caliber .357 is a good load because that is what I carry in my 686 when hiking or biking in black bear country. Also I would NOT report a bear shooting if I could help it,just saying.

I seem to recall from a new story about that fool who was filming grizzlies that the required distance to keep for a grizz is 1/2 mile. Did I just misremember that?

btw, that is a funny story about the dentist and the bear. Mind if I cut and paste it?

db

Go right ahead, I kept the story PG, the 2 or 3 times I got the story it was right between rated R and X, hahahahahah

I'll repost a story that I put on here a few years ago. I Won't be offended if you skip it.
Short version is "it just depends" as some others have said. SEAK is right about Defense of Life or Property (DLP) brown bear shootings in Alaska. They make it tough to justify!


Bear Story

Where to begin? How about the beginning (by the way, this is a fairly short (for a preacher) story.
By the way, I'm breaking in a brand new laptop & having a hard time getting used to the keyboard, so forgive the typos.
In my area in Alaska the black bear season never closes & we can get two a year. One before July 1, & one after. We can start baiting April 15 & that runs through June 15. I put bait out around April 20, & have been back at least twice a week since checking the station. Finally saw the 1st tracks in the area around the beginning of the second week in May. Maybe a week later than last year, but it's been a cold spring. My bait is about 60 yds off (thick brush all the way. Very limited visibility) an old closed temporary “road” that was put in several years ago so they could do some kind of testing. Now it’s just a wide trail. It's only a half mile long, & runs through a clear cut about 45 yds wide & as long as the road. It's just fine gravel & sand dumped over the hummocks & moss after they bladed out the spruce stumps, & it's blocked on the end it originates from, but because of it's makeup it holds tracks fairly well. My bait is .33 miles down this road. By law we have to be .25 miles off any maintained road, so I'm legal with a little fudge factor.
Well I had seen one set of tracks that passed my station on this road, but the bear passed on a night we had a wind blowing from an abnormal direction so he didn't hit the bait. I've seen lots of tracks within .20 miles of the place I park, but nothing on the bait end. I've been seeing the tracks of a single large black bear, & a brown bear sow with cubs regularly, but none near the bait, & the bait hadn't been hit. Not too surprising because it didn't get hit until the 22 of May last year.
Soo...
This morning I'm heading out there & of course I'm squeezing checking the bait in between other stuff. I had planned on hunting the bait with my longbow, but I haven't been taking the bow to check the bait because I'm always on he run & don't have time to stump shoot. I do take a .44 mag loaded with 300gr hardcast bullets @ 1340 fps so I feel very well armed as far as protection goes with this thumper, & since I also handgun hunt I figure if I catch a bear on the bait while I'm checking it I'll take it from the ground with the pistol. I should add we can NOT kill brown bear in the spring!
So this morning about 1/2 way to the bait I see tracks come onto the road heading TOWARD the bait! I'm pumped. Maybe the bait will finally be hit. Gun in hand I'm quietly walking that way & checking out the tracks as I go. Single bear, nice size track, very large for a black bear around here, but not seeing any claw marks so I assume that's what it is. I get to where I turn off the closed sand road to the bait & I can see the bear did the same to follow my stinkum. I wait there for several minutes as I do every time I approach to listen. Nothing. Strange how those things we do regularly without them seeming to really matter seem to become kind of unimportant.... Kind of like fire drills in school. So I start sneaking in n my bait. It's only 60 yds, but this is fairly thick country where you often can't see 20. My stand tree is about 11 yds from my bait, & when I'm less than 15 yds from the stand tree I can finally look around it & see the tires that I stack as a bait barrel. They are scattered & he logs that were on top of them are gone. Good sign. All the way in since I left the road it's been 3 steps & stop & listen & scan the brush for a bear protecting it's food source. Now that I'm less than 25 yds from the bait I stand for a full minute or so. I should add that since I saw the tracks the Lord & I have been discussing this bear. I told Him, you know I'm running out of hunting time Lord. I've got a lot of commitments coming up fast, so I'd really like to drop a nice boar at the bait with the handgun this morning. One shot one kill... Well that' still going through my mind as I'm standing here looking under every bush & listening for any sign that the bear is still in the area. gun is in hand & half way up, ready for action. Something just doesn't feel right. I know I'm not alone. This is bear morning. I take a couple more steps that bring the bait into better view through the brush & reduce the range further, & all of the sudden there a sense of unseen movement (if that makes any sense) on the other side of the base of my stand tree. It's the only tree big enough for a stand here. Probably 18" dia., & surrounded by dead little swamp spruce at the base. I take another step, gun coming up, & there is a flurry of movement from the base of the tree less that 10 yds away. The gun is coming up & all I can see is brown heading straight toward the bait. The world slows down & the brain goes into hyper drive. In those micro-seconds the brain does amazing things. "Take one step left so you have a clearer field of fire. Is that a cinnamon black bear or is it a brown bear. Too big. Too blocky. No question. Brown bear & he' stopped between you & the bait to protect "his kill". Well poop. This .44 mag feels like a pellet gun!. He' facing me & the wind is in my face so he's not sure what's going on. He's profiling himself to show me his size (and he's GOT SOME) & woofing. I've got the dot in my red dot sight right on him & was very glad it wasn't my HH longbow at the moment. I'm not moving & he's pacing between me & the bait & woofing. I take a step back & he steps behind the bait & keeps pacing & woofing. I'm backing up one step at a time & thinking that even I can smell the jelly type bait in my fanny pack. Then I remembered. There's also a digital camera in here. Now we're maybe 25 yds apart, so with one hand I bring the pack around to the front & did the camera out & turn it on. Perfect profile shot as he's pacing, but it's obvious he's getting torqued. Click the pic & the screen goes black. What? Turn the camera back on & the low batt. light cones on but the display stays up. Now he's turned and taken a step toward me, so I can only see his head looking straight at me from just over 20 yds. It looks a lot like the front of a Kenworth. I hit the button on the camera, the display goes black & I stick the camera back in he pack. He' starting to take a step at a time toward me, woofing, obviously no longer amused & still not able to get my wind. Both hands on the gun now, & backing away at a slow but regular pace. When about 30 yds separate us I lose him in the brush & he goes silent. I pick up the pace while watching over my shoulder. When about 10 yds of brush are separating me from the sand road in the clear cut he starts smashing something & woofing again & I'm in the open & facing the brush as fast as my short little legs can get me there. Stood there a minute to make sure he wasn't coming & never heard another sound. Hmmm... Headed for the truck at a fast walk keeping an eye on the brush on his side of the clearing & never saw him again.
Great way to start the day!!! I can drink decaf the rest of the afternoon!!!!!!!

I measured his pads on the way out, & going by the "add an inch" method, he would have been an 8- 9' bear. 700-900#? I don't know.

Not trying to pat myself on the back, but we all wonder how we will perform when we find ourselves in that type of situation don't we? I was pleased. My pants were clean & dry, I didn't run & I didn't start spraying lead. I felt that I remained in control of the situation to the extent that I could.
By the way, the pictures didn’t turn out.
Now the question is, do I want to bother re-baiting with "him" there????

Great write up Vance.Very often what happens is 100% the bears choice.Remember Synd's write up last year dang near the same deal.

Vance.... snapping pics?! That's what the game cam strapped to the tree if for!

Remember about 3 years ago when they found pieces of that guy scattered around on the Toklat in Denali Park? They found his camera....yup.... he was snapping pics... they found some of him in the Griz they killed as well. He even made national news.. http://abcnews.go.com/US/grizzly-bear-mauls-san-diego-man-death-alaskas/story?id=17082317

I'd say the Lord was watching over you like He was me last spring!

As far as the original post goes. We all have our "comfort zone" based on what's happening at the time. Distance might be "if he gets to that bush I'm shooting!" Or, "one more step" Or there might not be any time to think, just react.

Personally, I don't/won't try to figure out a "bluff charge" I figure there's no such thing. If he's posturing like that he means business somehow. I can't read his mind, he's a wild animal feeling threatened somehow. I value my life more than any animal. I'll shoot first and ask questions later. Too bad so sad for the bear. Better him than me.

Here's my post of my Griz encounter last spring. This year we can shoot em over bait!

http://www.handgunhunt.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/146601/page/0/fpart/1

Airdale- you wrote... "Also I would NOT report a bear shooting if I could help it,just saying."

Why not? All one needs to know is the law of the state. Here in AK black bear is open pretty much year around and you can shoot three so if you always pack a tag you're good to go, you can keep the bear. Even with no tag or if it's Griz out of season you just skin it and turn it in as a DLP (Defense of Life and Property) bear. There will be an investigation. If it really was a DLP shoot then your good to go. If you kill one and leave it and get busted... well then you are a poacher and the Troopers will nail you hard. Like confiscate your gun(s), atv, airplane, boat, truck, camper or whatever else you had with you at the time. Large fine, maybe jail time, loss of hunting privileges, etc. Plus you get a misdemeanor crime or two on your record.

An excerpt from a previous post of mine in my bear encounter thread. Here's how I see it....


Ok, so the choice of not to flee but to stand. Then what?? I’m standing there with gun, cocked and aimed at this bear walking towards me through the brush. I can only see the top of his head/back as he’s coming to check me out. The big questions are…. Do you shoot? When do you shoot? I heard an answer to this question years ago from a well known, well experienced bear expert that teaches Bear Aware/Defense and has studied encounters for years. This stuck with me… His practical answer was “pick a land mark of some sort and determine that if he steps any closer you’re gonna shoot.” That ‘comfort zone” can be different for each of us. It’s gonna depend on the bear, the shooter, the gun, etc. Some guys can tell the difference between a bluff charge and a real one. I don’t have enough experience. I value my life more than the life of a bear so for me, there is no such thing as a bluff charge. Even if he’d just have continued walking my way after I hollered, I’d have started shooting. Because he would have been in my zone, he left food come check me out and I’m not gonna second guess myself. I’d have felt threatened at that point. If he’s in my zone I’m gonna shoot. Better a dead bear than a dead me. Someone else may see it different, others may have started shooting the minute the bear started approaching. I won’t judge anothers decision of when to shoot. We all have our own comfort zones. I only know what mine is.

peace

Like others have said, most times there will be no doubt, and the demeanor and bears body language will let you know when things are headed south. Here in NC it will be dependent upon your wildlife officer whether you are charged with killing the bear or if it is justified. Most people's idea of to close and theirs are usually not the same, from my experiences.

I agree with the last part! My wife asked later what effect I thought the flash would have had on the bear had the camera worked... Hmmm... God is good! I did have the gun in the other hand :-)
I had forgotten the incident you mentioned.
I'm glad you posted the link to last years post. Somehow I had missed it then! Good stuff

This has turned into a very insiteful and revealing post. Thanks to everyone for there stories.As has been said I relive my encounter from time to time searching for answers or clues .Bottom line is I screwed up and put my grandson and myself in a bad spot, [and I paid the price]. I got too close in a situation I thought I was in control of. WRONG . Never get over confidant with any animal big enough to hurt you.They are unbelivable strong and much faster than we are.Snyd and Vance did you make a consious decision to draw your gun or was it just in your hand without any thought? Mine was just there and I still don't remember drawing it. I hope this post continues on with more stories as we draw knowledge from each encounter and they may save someone trouble down the road.
Again, Thanks to all who have posted.

I have been within petting distance of black bears on a couple of occasions. Both times were surprise encounters for both man and beast. Only felt the bear was a threat once but I think the smell emanating from my drawers caused him to turn and run. Had one run right at me but swerved away and run past me. I could not have drawn my gun in time had he been set on doing me harm. We bumped into one another on a very windy day. He was down on the ground tearing apart a log and I happened upon him. He stood up on his hind legs and looked at me then ran away turned around came right at me. It all happened before I could react and draw the .44 629 out of my holster.

Well in that particular situation I was sneaking in to our bait station so was in hunt mode. We knew a griz had been on the bait (but a black as well) so I had my gun in hand, hammer cocked and blocked with weak hand thumb.

My answer is the exact same as Snyd's except the gun was double action :-)