A little keyhole' n trivia.
#164240
10/11/2015 1:20 AM
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KRal
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Last weekend I spent half a day shooting all my revolvers verifying zero, making sure everything was still working properly, trying different loads, firing from field positions, and just general practice; getting ready for deer season. Everything was going as good as it could till I got out my last revolver; Reeder 475 Linebaugh. I'd worked up progressively through the caliber's, starting with 357 and finishing up with the 475.
I shot a few cylinders full of 325 xtp's over a max dose of H110; making sure my red dot was still holding up. I then filled the cylinder with the loads I'll be hunting with: 385 gr Miha cast hollow point over 14.5 gr of HS6. These loads are clocking around 1200 fps.
Now to the trivia..... Once I started shoot the cast loads, my impacts were erratic and with closer inspection, were keyhole'n at 50 yards. Just to let you know, I figured out why, but have never experienced or heard of the reason before. It was a quick fix and things were back to what they were supposed to be.
I would like to here your theories/solutions of what you think it could have been. If no one figures out what it was, I'll give my findings.
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: KRal]
#164242
10/11/2015 1:49 AM
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WiseGuy
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It was more than likely the gun. I should probably take it off your hands and do some proper testing with it. Let me know if you need me to help you with this problem.
Bigger ain't always better....according to who???
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: WiseGuy]
#164247
10/11/2015 2:51 AM
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KRal
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It was more than likely the gun. I should probably take it off your hands and do some proper testing with it. Let me know if you need me to help you with this problem. It was the gun, but quickly got back on track. 😜
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: KRal]
#164248
10/11/2015 3:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
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mike.44
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I hate you KRal!!! I glanced at your post and went on. Then I had to come back and read it again. I have been going nuts trying to figure it out. And I am definitely not the ballistician in the group....just the most OCD. LOL I was leaning towards something with the load. But, you statement "it was with the gun" pushed me over the edge.
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: mike.44]
#164249
10/11/2015 4:08 AM
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mike.44
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Ok, from my limited experience with keyholing I was using too heavy a bullet for the twist. OR, not having enough velocity to stabilize the bullet. Here is a dumb guess just so I can move on and come back later. 1)You had too much copper fowling. Bullet could not grip lands and grooves to stabilize. 2) you were supposed to put gas checks on but forgot.
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: mike.44]
#164252
10/11/2015 10:05 AM
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500WE
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: 500WE]
#164253
10/11/2015 11:30 AM
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J Scott
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Since you said it was the gun, was the base pin not locked securely resulting in a loose cylinder causing the issue? Best guess I've got, as I've only had one sip of morning java
Best,
Scott
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: 500WE]
#164254
10/11/2015 1:58 PM
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KRal
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Ken, that would probably do it, but would be hard to correct quickly.
I'm hearing some good theories, but no cigars yet.
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze.
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: KRal]
#164256
10/11/2015 2:28 PM
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Raptortrapper
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A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
Lifetime Member of the NRA! Wish I'd a done it sooner.
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: Raptortrapper]
#164257
10/11/2015 2:35 PM
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KRal
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This gun has a brake, so the crown it pretty well protected.
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze.
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: KRal]
#164261
10/11/2015 2:43 PM
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Gregg Richter
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The barrel was getting loose (unthreading)
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: KRal]
#164262
10/11/2015 2:43 PM
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SChunter
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Excessive leading @ 1200 with the soft cast?
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: KRal]
#164266
10/11/2015 3:12 PM
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Raptortrapper
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This gun has a brake, so the crown it pretty well protected. So much for that idea then. Is the brake integrated? Or was it not on completely?
A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
Lifetime Member of the NRA! Wish I'd a done it sooner.
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Re: A little keyhole' trivia.
[Re: Raptortrapper]
#164270
10/11/2015 3:51 PM
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KRal
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All good theories, so far. Most of what went through my mind.
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze.
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: KRal]
#164272
10/11/2015 4:45 PM
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Gregg Richter
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OK...gun related keyholing bullets....HAS to be due to bullets not completely stabilizing in the barrel OR getting de-stabilized upon or after exiting the barrel...assuming barrel and bullet dimensions are in spec..."quick fix" makes it even more mysterious!"
So we have analyzed cylinder alignment, barrel alignment, barrel crown...
WHAT are we missing KRAL!!!
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#164291
10/11/2015 6:47 PM
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pab1
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WHAT are we missing KRAL!!!
X2! I'm stumped if it was not one of the problems already posted.
Experience is the best teacher, hunger good sauce. Osborne Russell Journal of a Trapper
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: pab1]
#164296
10/11/2015 8:55 PM
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KRal
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Lol.....patience, gentlemen. I want to here some more theories before I let the cat out of the bag.
It only took me about one minute to fix the problem; about half that time to diagnose it. But, I did have the gun in possession
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze.
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: KRal]
#164301
10/11/2015 10:18 PM
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junebug
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Some of the holes in the brake pluged with fowling?
junebug
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: junebug]
#164304
10/11/2015 10:34 PM
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Whitworth
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Did the problem go away when you went back to your 325 grain XTP loads? Were your cast loads per chance for another caliber??
I ask because a friend of mine actually loaded some .44 Mag ammo in a .454 and it did fire, but accuracy sucked completely!
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: Whitworth]
#164316
10/12/2015 1:02 AM
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KRal
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Did the problem go away when you went back to your 325 grain XTP loads? Were your cast loads per chance for another caliber??
I ask because a friend of mine actually loaded some .44 Mag ammo in a .454 and it did fire, but accuracy sucked completely! Lol...they were Linebaugh's. I didn't go back to the 325s, but the keyhole'n stopped as soon as I corrected the problem.
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze.
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: Whitworth]
#164320
10/12/2015 1:10 AM
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Chance Weldon
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I'm stumped.
Formerly TN Lone Wolf
"We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided." - J.K. Rowling
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: Chance Weldon]
#164326
10/12/2015 1:30 AM
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Gregg Richter
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#164334
10/12/2015 1:48 AM
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Raptortrapper
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Loose nut behind the trigger??
A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
Lifetime Member of the NRA! Wish I'd a done it sooner.
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#164342
10/12/2015 2:07 AM
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KRal
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Ok....I think all possibilities have been covered; other than the problem.
My grip frame had worked loose will shooting the peppy loads and I didn't notice it. Those rounds may have been unstable also, but I can't confirm that cause I wasn't zeroed for them and they weren't hitting the target. I was just shooting them to make sure my red dot was still holding zero.
When I went to my cast loads, that I was zeroed for, is when I discovered the erratic impacts. My first thought was that my red dot had bit the dust again. But when I walked down to the target, I noticed the keyholes. Since I was shooting from field positions (off my back pack) I was afraid I might have been modifying my pack, but after checking that out there were no holes.
I then started inspecting my gun; that's when I noticed the loose grip frame. I really didn't think that would cause it, but it needed tightened,so I did. All the frame screws had worked loose. After torquing all of them back down, I tried shooting again....WAHLA! Rounds striking 2" high at 50 yards like they were zeroed; two cutting the same hole! Went down to inspect and no keyhole. Shot a few more to verify and still good to go.
Who Wud of Thunkit?
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze.
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: KRal]
#164345
10/12/2015 2:11 AM
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Raptortrapper
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Good to know! Never would have thought of that! I'm the same as Gregg-- thought it would have had to be at the entrance point to the barrel, or last thing as its leaving the barrel.
Good education right there! Think I'll go check my grip frames!
Last edited by raptortrapper; 10/12/2015 2:12 AM.
A lot of people are like a slinky: Not much fun till you push them down the stairs!
Lifetime Member of the NRA! Wish I'd a done it sooner.
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: Raptortrapper]
#164347
10/12/2015 2:13 AM
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Chance Weldon
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My guess would have been the ammo. Bullets traveling too slow for a twist rate, or something along those lines. At least you identified it and got it fixed.
Formerly TN Lone Wolf
"We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided." - J.K. Rowling
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: Chance Weldon]
#164353
10/12/2015 2:33 AM
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GlennS
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It makes perfect sense when you think of the gun as a system. The twist was not being fully utilized with the gripframe giving slightly during the slugs travel down the barrel. Probably wouldn't have been as pronounced with a faster stepping round that had less dwell time in the barrel. Kral stumped me when he called and told me for sure. The load is a known load and has always shot well in his gun and others including mine. Pretty much ruled out the ammo right off the bat. It does remind me that I need to go and take a screwdriver to the safe soon
"Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt"
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: GlennS]
#164356
10/12/2015 2:44 AM
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s4s4u
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That to me indicates that bullet and that load are on the ragged edge of stability in that gun with that twist. I might add a couple tenths just for margin of error ;-)
Glad you got it figured out, Kim.
Rod, too.
Short cuts often lead to long recoveries.
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: s4s4u]
#164360
10/12/2015 3:57 AM
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Gregg Richter
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So the slugs were not being fully stabilized in the barrel...
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: Gregg Richter]
#164365
10/12/2015 10:24 AM
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Whitworth
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I have had POI shift because of a loose grip frame, but no issue with key holing.
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: Whitworth]
#164382
10/12/2015 2:20 PM
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KRal
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So the slugs were not being fully stabilized in the barrel...
Exactly. I have had POI shift because of a loose grip frame, but no issue with key holing. Myself as well.
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze.
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: KRal]
#164407
10/12/2015 10:11 PM
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mike.44
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So, loose screw behind the trigger. Just what I thought!! LOL
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Re: A little keyhole' n trivia.
[Re: mike.44]
#164409
10/12/2015 10:36 PM
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KRal
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So, loose screw behind the trigger. Just what I thought!! LOL Exactly 😜
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger squeeze.
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