SWC's and LBT's don't have to expand to be effective. We actually prefer they don't most the time. The flat nose produces an impressive wound channel and usually exits. So yes, cast bullets leave a blood trail, albeit a short one.

SWC's and LBT's don't have to expand to be effective. We actually prefer they don't most the time. The flat nose produces an impressive wound channel and usually exits. So yes, cast bullets leave a blood trail, albeit a short one.

SWC's and LBT's don't have to expand to be effective. We actually prefer they don't most the time. The flat nose produces an impressive wound channel and usually exits. So yes, cast bullets leave a blood trail, albeit a short one.

On the subject of hollow points expanding. I have used 240 grain XTPs in a 44 magnum and muzzleloaders to take quite a few deer. And when pushed at magnum level velocities they always seem to expand.

A lot depends on the meplat, or frontal area, of the bullet. The wider the meplat, the more damage is likely to be done. If the bullet has a narrow frontal area it may pass through with little damage if not placed well, and not leave a very good blood trail. For thin skinned game like deer I prefer a good JHP, like the XTP, and place it in the boiler room. There is a lot of good sausage meat on the shoulders and I hate to waste any of it.

So why do you perfer the xtp for deer? So if you have a bullet with a wide meplat what advantage does the xtp have over it? Why did you say you would hate to ruin the shoulder meat? Does this mean you should try to hit a shoulder with a SWC and not take a broadside double lung (bow shot) ???

I like expanding bullets myself. I have taken a lot of game with a handgun and I have never lost an animal if I did my part. I have lost several deer with buckshot, but that is when I was a kid. Where you place the bullet is by far more important.

The XTP expands significantly, nearly 150%, when pushed fairly hard and all that frontal area raises holy hell on the internal organs of a deer @ 1,300 fps mv. A hard cast bullet remains the same unless it hits bone, regardless of velocity so I would want as large of frontal area as I could get if the vitals are the target area. I don't concern myself with an exit and more times than not you won't get one with an XTP, but the damage is done and they don't go far. A hard cast bullet will pass through more often than not, but if it is a pointy bullet it may not do much damage along the way. If using a cast bullet I'd want it to be heavy for caliber and will try to anchor them with a high shoulder shot.

Thank you, so I'm taking that in your opinion SWC's especially ones with narrow meplats require breaking the shoulder to put them down quick because they tend to not do much damage because they do not expand.

Thank you, so I'm taking that in your opinion SWC's especially ones with narrow meplats require breaking the shoulder to put them down quick because they tend to not do much damage because they do not expand.

No. Breaking the shoulder usually results in a quicker kill, regardless of what is being used. The SWC or LBT gives you the option of being able to both break a shoulder and push through the vitals before exiting. Hit the shoulder with a JHP and odds are good that it won't penetrate much further. Revolvers don't have a surplus of velocity to work with. What we have are choices between different compromises. A jacketed soft or hollowpoint causes greater tissue destruction but a shallower wound channel. A somewhat narrower wound channel with an almost guaranteed exit. Pick your poison. IMHO, the LBT is the best of all because it not only holds its shape while it penetrates deeply and breaks heavy bones but it also produces an impressive wound channel. The cast bullet also gives you the option of taking a shot from any angle. You don't have to pass on the trophy of a lifetime because he doesn't give you the picture perfect broadside shot.

No. Breaking the shoulder usually results in a quicker kill, regardless of what is being used. The SWC or LBT gives you the option of being able to both break a shoulder and push through the vitals before exiting. Hit the shoulder with a JHP and odds are good that it won't penetrate much further. Revolvers don't have a surplus of velocity to work with. What we have are choices between different compromises. A jacketed soft or hollowpoint causes greater tissue destruction but a shallower wound channel. A somewhat narrower wound channel with an almost guaranteed exit. Pick your poison. IMHO, the LBT is the best of all because it not only holds its shape while it penetrates deeply and breaks heavy bones but it also produces an impressive wound channel. The cast bullet also gives you the option of taking a shot from any angle. You don't have to pass on the trophy of a lifetime because he doesn't give you the picture perfect broadside shot.

according to beartooths permanent wound channel calculator a bullet with a .430 meplat (what it is with a wadcutter) striking at 1,200 fps would have a wound channel of 1.29" and should be good for elk and moose.

Ok so if you shot a deer with a WFN, picture perfect broadside double lung bowhunting shot, hit no bones except maybe a rib or two, would you expect a blood trail that you could actually follow.

And what about the same shot with a Keith SWC?

Let's make this very simple...hit the vitals...destroy the vitals....dead deer...any well constructed bullet expanding or solid through the heart, within range, will work...and work well. The bigger the hole, even better. Keep in mind a 180 gr JHP from a 357 Mag works great on deer. For larger game this becomes even more important. Still, match the bullet to the game, destroy the vitals, and you will be successful.

ok well I'm going to stop thinking about it.

I'm going to buy some 255gr WFNPB LBT cast bullets and load them up to 1,200 - 1,400 fps and shoot a deer.

Thanks