This is more of a self incrimination with hopes others will not make the same mistake. I did a lot of load development for an encore with a MGM 30-30 barrel (10 inch). Best groups and very pleasant to shoot was from 2 separate loads in the 1800 fps range with the Nosler BT 125 gr. Shot a doe and she pretty much DRT. Postmortem showed very little expansion but both entry and exit was between ribs so I did not think much about it. Next doe I shot ran forever, jumped her 4 hours later and she ran hard so must have been poor placement on my part but bled pretty well so I'm thinking poor placement but more importantly poor use of a good bullet. Nosler says 1800 fps is lower edge for 30 cal BTs. About 60 yard shot so would have slowed some making for a near FMJ result. Gonna jack the velocity to the 2200 fps range. May also try some Sierra 125gr FNHP and some Rem 150 gr PSPCL and do some performance testing in the off season.

Try the 130 grain speer hollow point I get very good expansion and good weight retention out of my 10 inch 30 herett I also use it on my whisper and 30-30 shot a buck at 80 buck ran about fifty yards and sprayed blood 6 feet out the far side

I used the 125 NBT with great results in my contender. Performed great with 4895 and I didn't have any problem getting the velocity over 2200. I forget the exact numbers but starting at 2200 you should get expansion out to around 200 yds.

I use the 125gr Hornady SST in multiple guns and chamberings to good effect.

.30-30 AI Contender Pistol
.308 Winchester Rifle & MOA Pistol
.30-06 Springfield Encore Pistol

Yep. Boosted in velocity and that little 125 BT is awesome. Another to try is the Barnes 110 TacTX

Checking velocities and using the bullet at the right speeds is always important. I second the Barnes TACTX. Very pleasant to shoot at effective velocities.

I have used the 125 Nosler BT over 20 yrs in my 30-30 14" contender. The last doe I shot sounded like a bat hitting a watermelon at a measured 126 yds. DRT It was a straight on shot thru the neck and into the chest. My load is a little over max with H4895 and it shoots under an 1" constantly at 100 yds. I am going to experiment with the Hornady 125 SST this year but, that previous load does not need fixing. [est. velocity 2200fps +]

4895 was the powder I used just not enough of it, 3031 also gave me an excellent group but again around 1800 fps. Speed is estimated based on data. Appears several of the suggestions above still require about 2200 fps so I just need to ramp up the speed. Already ordered and received the Rem 150s and the Sierra 125s so will start there and do some jug, wet newspaper testing. Just more motivation to shoot more, ;). Thanks for the suggestions, taking notes and may try a few of them before next season.

Here's another chance to do more shooting and reloading if you want. The black tipped Tac-TX from Barnes for the 300 blackout is suppose to function (double in cross sectional area at impact) down to ~1300 or 1400 fps and retain 100% mass up to ~2200 fps. I use it with RL7 and get it going ~2500 fps (14" barrel), Designed for use in the 300bo, it has much lower velocity requirements then any other 30cal spitzer rifle bullet I could find. I am going to work up a lighter load next summer for a friends 10" contender and will post velocities and general load data when I do.

Posting the data and your results would be awesome, My MGM is also 10 inch; I wanted a very handy Encore and 14 inches seemed a little too unwieldy - 12 inch may have been ok but I am liking the 10 inch. I will get some of the Barnes and try them. At 110 gr I can still up the velocity some and keep the very pleasant aspects of my current load. Thanks for the tip.

I run it at a shade over 2400 in a 10" MOA in 30 Herrett. It's a very accurate bullet and devastating on meat. I add a few boxes every order I send to Midway. I heard there is a 120 grain version either out already or coming. Not sure but I haven't tried it regardless. I wouldn't mind trying it but I've bought a bunch of the others and they work well so I doubt I worry with it much. But if I was starting fresh, I'd give it a look for sure.

I hadn't heard about the 120gn version. After a quick email, Tech support at Barnes said it is being released as a component this year. Available info on the loaded ammo using the bullet said it has a boat tail and a little better BC then the 110 gn version. They claim an effective range of 300 yards with either the 110 or 120 (published velocities of 2350 fps and 2100 fps respectively) in the Barnes Vor-tx ammo.

"Yes we are releasing the .308 cal 120gr TAC-TX Black Tip as a component this year and it requires a minimum impact velocity of 1350fps, as does the 110gr version, for beginning expansion in our water tank test. We are suggesting a minimum impact velocity of 1450fps for good bullet expansion and subsequent good wound channels."

That should be a good one to try

The manual I have was contender specific and listed a starting load of 32 and max of 35. My load was 34 grains of 4895 under a 125 NBT. No pressure signs and had brass that had been loaded 11 times that there was nothing wrong with. Even over 2200 it should be very pleasant in an encore. As always verify load data in manuals. Some of the newer bullets may be better since they are making some for the 300 blk.

110's on the way from Midway but like the sound of the 120s. I know we are talking very small percentages (and 55 gr .223 kill deer very well) but with the slower velocity of the 30-30 I had not wanted to go lower than 125gr. My son shoots the 125 BT out of his 30-06 rifle so that is why I tried them - just did not think about the velocity being an issue. Don't quote me and always verify load data but I think I loaded 31gr of 4895 to get the estimated 1800fps out of the 10 inch barrel. I'm gonna chrono some of the remaining loaded ammo to verify. I had a Contender section in my load data book and this was the starting load if I remember correctly. Regardless the .30 cal exit hole was all I needed to know I had messed up. Again I mis-used a very good bullet. 110 Barnes Tac-TX due in a couple days so prepping cases already.

Ooooof, I wouldn't use that 125 in an 06. Much better choices than that. You don't gain anything in a rifle in my opinion. Drops more at distance with decreased BC and doesn't carry the payload of a larger slug.

The Nosler 125 BT works great on deer.

My 10yr old grandson used a reduced load (for mild recoil) in his 30-06 Spr rifle with the N125BT right at 2600 FPS to kill an 8pt buck at around 130 yards. Worked great. Complete pass thru. Good expansion. Dead Deer.

My wife also used the N125BT in her 300 Blackout rifle with a MV of 2260 FPS to kill a 5pt buck. That bullet killed a small 2"-3" diameter tree, then entered the deer. Bullet killed the deer after completely penetrating the small tree. Range was about 45 yds or so. Deer dropped in tracks.

That Nosler 125 Ballistic Tip is a good deer bullet. I wouldn't use it for long, long range, but for typical ranges (out to 200-300 yds) and with moderate muzzle velocity that's not barrel scorching fast (wouldn't use it in my 300 RUM rifle...) of most normal deer hunting it's lethal.

I handloaded the 125g BT load for my son for the same reasons, reduced recoil. He killed a large 9 point (he's lucky/I'm jealous) as his first deer using this load. We hunt in a pretty thick area, average shot is less than 75 yards and he was only 35 from this deer. DRT, full penetration thru the chest. As he grows, I will move him up to the 165 gr BT and/or Partition assuming his Mossberg rifle shoots them well. I would have loved to start him with .243 or other less recoil cartridges but money not available for that process. Easier and cheaper to get the 30-06 and shoot reduced loads then change loads not guns as he grows.

To correct some info above, my load was 30g 4895 and 31g 3031 - both about the same velocity with 4895 a little more accurate. Load data from Speer No. 12 manual in the handgun section in the back.

short30, what part of Alabama do you hunt in? I grew up in Shelby county and lived and worked in Albertville back in the 80's.

Reduced loads, I can see that. Sorry, I am used to the old run the 125 at Mach 8 cause it's flatter deal

I use 125 gr. NBT's in my 308 handgun and long gun using load data from KRal. Works great on deer and hogs.

I went back and checked because some of the loads listed above exceeded my Speer #12 (1995) load manual data. 32g 4895 was shown as max. A newer Nosler (2002) T/C section shows the range from 32 to 36 grains. Amazing the differences in sources. That's why I typically look at several books and even internet when researching loads. My 30-30 MGM barrel was made for the encore frame I have so strength should not be an issue.

RH1954: I roam pretty much anywhere east of Huntsville but usually north of Sand Mountain.

Short30 I lived on Sand Mountain for two years in the mid 80's and worked for Mueller.

Assume Mueller Metals? Had Uncle who worked for Revere Copper and Brass Scottsboro. Majority of my hunting is/was Paint Rock Valley.

Still waiting for an opportunity to try all the new loads and bullets. I have the cardboard media (approx. 36 inches) ready to try to catch some bullets.

This was not meant to be a very scientific study so take it for what it is worth. All shots were from a 10 inch MGM barrel 30-30 at 50 Yards. Velocity is estimated based on load data manuals. Media was approx. 9 inches of dry phone books and catalogs followed by 11 more inches of stacked cardboard. All dry. Pictures to follow if I can get a moderator to upload them for me. Numbering below is in no specific order but the number goes with the number in the picture. I tried to show 2 views with an original bullet for comparison. I did not weigh them as I did not try to dig out all the scrap/small pieces.

Bullet/Wt. Est. Vel. Penetration Depth and Observation
1. Barnes TAC-TX 110gr Blacktip 2150fps 7.5 inches Very good petals, looks like a pretty good solution
2. Nosler BT 125gr 2200fps 9 inches core separated from the jacket but was co-located in the media
3. Sierra FNHP 125gr 2200fps 7 inches found only the jacket and lead dust
4. Nosler BT 125gr 2050fps 9 inches core separated from jacket but was also co-located just as with #2 and with similarity this shows consistent results
5. Sierra FNHP 125gr. 1975fps 5 inches large expansion with wide smearing. Seems like better performance than #3 but less penetration as well
6. Barnes TAC-TX 110gr Blacktip 1900fps xx inches Very good petals, looks like #1 even with lower velocity. After passing thru 6inches of phone book it actually hit an airgap and was found 16inches into the box but again it passed thru several inches of air and not the last 3 inches of phone book ? still a nice looking mushroom
7. Nosler BT 165gr 1975fps 9.5 inches nose smear only, I assume too slow due to lack of performance. Nosler manual show loaded down to 1700 fps but that must just be load data and not meant for hunting since I think the bullets need more velocity for the performance range designed. Not gonna be a hunting load for me.
8. Remington PSPCL 150gr. 1800fps 11inches typical core-lokt mushroom ? they are regarded as cheap but I have had a ton of good performance mainly from factory stuff before I became a snob with reloading
Un-scientific conclusions: Original load with Nosler BT 125gr was just too slow so increased velocity seems just what the doctor ordered. The 110 grain Barnes showed very good expansion. The 150 gr Rem PSPCL also performed well. The Sierra was the only disappointment even though #5 showed very acceptable performance ? so I think all of these would work even though I will not use the Sierras for hunting. I now have several options to use to do the accuracy/repeatability testing. The MGM barrel really liked the Nosler before so I bet it does well again. I can?t wait to see how the Barnes and Remington group. I anticipate having several good options.

Very interesting. Looking forward to pics.

Good info as I am getting a 14 inch 30 30 contender for Christmas.

I used the Sierra 125 grain SP (2120) to take a whitetail last year using a Contender chambered in 30 Raptor. Muzzle velocity was 2375 fps. and the distance was around 75 yards. I didn't recover the bullet as I got a complete pass through. The deer went about 20 yards and expired with major damage in the bottom of the lung area.

thanks for the write up short30. interesting

You are welcome, I used to love to do this stuff but alas life happens....
Randominator: the low penetration was my main concern with the Sierras especially since several others appeared to do better (subjective). The test media is a tough one so I would bet the bullets would do well on the small deer we have around here. Your load is a little faster than what I tried. I doubt any of these would stay in a deer especially if no major bone is hit.

Based on previous load development, (and supply) I used only IMR4895 in various quantities based on several load manuals. the MGM seems to like it best of the ones I tried.

I've PM'ed a moderator to see if they will post pics. I read the forum a lot; just don't post much so I am still a stranger

Check the bragging board soon for pictures. Number in picture relates to the number listed above. Two views provided with two different bullets in each picture.

The photos are loaded in the Bragging Board under my name

Here are the first 3

image 1
[img]http://www.handgunhunt.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8257&cat=500&ppuser=8945[/img]

image 2
[img]http://www.handgunhunt.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8259&ppuser=8945[/img]

Image 3
http://www.handgunhunt.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8260&cat=500&ppuser=8945

Image 1:


Image 2:


Image 3:

For what it is worth I thought I'd follow up on performance. It has been a long wait but finally scored. Using the Barnes TAC-TX 110gr Blacktip at 2150fps, I took a large doe quartering slightly to me at 30 yards.
Deer have been scarce lately so when a large group appeared I was thrilled. A large deer without antlers was leading but I was convinced it was an antlerless buck based on the size. It was closely followed by two smaller yearlings then they were trailed but a large group of 5-7 deer. No details as I did not have the opportunity to see them. The lead deer was on a path to walk by up wind at about 30 yards so I drew the encore and waited but the deer turned and was coming right at me so using the trigger stick I brought the encore up, located the shoulder and fired. It al happened very fast. Too fast really, I would have liked to see what was in the trailing herd. It was obviously a doe just a very large one. She was dry so either weaned hers already or just older and dry.
The shot hit a rib going in and must have expanded then as the path thru the lungs was impressive. The exit was smaller than I expected but big enough. The entry was just at the shoulder crease and the exit was lower and just in front of the diaphragm. She ran about 30 yards and crumpled. It was pretty dark so no pictures. I pondered the small exit hole which was between ribs and went poking around the gut bucket. The heart had a small divot out of the lower section. The heart should not have been in the path so maybe a petal sheared off and went that way. I did not remember seeing any blood shot areas in that part of the body cavity and I had already dropped off at processor. Small matter to me as I think the bullet and load is a good one for the range I hunt. I still want to try the 150 Rem PSPCL but the Barnes is a winner. Thanks to those who suggested it.

Congratulations Short20! Way to put some meat in the freezer! Glad it worked out in the fast developing situation.

Any recollection how big the exit hole was? Could you put your finger in it? I just looked back at my pictures and the hole ~5/8 inch in diameter. I could also clearly see through the hide and deep into the tissue below (The internal damage was pretty good with 4 broken ribs and taking off the lower side of a few vertebrata).

Interesting thought on a petal causing collateral damage. I figured that even if they came off, you obviously hit a big bone which would help anchor the animal and the base would continue to penetrate. At the very least, the shed petal should stay intact in a large hunk and not end up contaminating a lot of meat.

I would guess the exit hole was larger than your thumb so 5/8 to 3/4 inch but again it went between 2 ribs exiting so based on the pictures of the tested bullet (#1 above), that is probably as expected.

These are the URLs to the page where the photo can be seen not the actual URL of the image itself. Anytime you post an image the URL will end with .jpg if you've captured the location of the image file on the server.